Need advice on how to breed Mellers!

[Ladynyce]

Hello,
I have been on this forum now for almost a year. I have recently purchased my first meller almost a month ago now. When I went in the store they had 2 mellers in a glass cage together. Apparently ome was a male and a female. The one that I bought was a female the male was huge and I believe he wouldve been stressed to be in the cage that I have purchased. Anyways I figured why don't I go back and purchuse the Male to breed them. I know I would definitely need a homemade huge cage but I am not to sure how the lighting and everything else would work in a cage so big. Because in canada we don't see mellers often I would like to expland that if I could. Can anyone give me advice on the best ways for breeding. When is the right time? should this two Live in the same cage. How many lights will I need for a huge cage?

Any advice will be taken and appreciated.

 

[nick barta]

Mellers are difficult to sex, and I would be surprised if the pet shop had that ability.
Before you go into breeding plans, you need to have a qualified vet make sure you have a pair.

They will need separate caging, unless you want to build a room-sized free range!

Use the "Search" feature and punch in Mellers, and you will get hours of reading….

Chances are these are wild caught, so parasites will need to be addressed through a reptile vet.

If you do have 1 or 2 WC Females, they may well be gravid with fertilized eggs.

Nick

Good luck on your venture!

 

[Carlton]

Hello,
I have been on this forum now for almost a year. I have recently purchased my first meller almost a month ago now. When I went in the store they had 2 mellers in a glass cage together. Apparently ome was a male and a female. The one that I bought was a female the male was huge and I believe he wouldve been stressed to be in the cage that I have purchased. Anyways I figured why don't I go back and purchuse the Male to breed them. I know I would definitely need a homemade huge cage but I am not to sure how the lighting and everything else would work in a cage so big. Because in canada we don't see mellers often I would like to expland that if I could. Can anyone give me advice on the best ways for breeding. When is the right time? should this two Live in the same cage. How many lights will I need for a huge cage?

Any advice will be taken and appreciated.

Neither of these animals should be exposed to the demands of breeding for many months, and when you will also know them a lot better.

And, as Nick said, sexing melleri is very difficult. I'd be hugely surprised if the shop had any clue to their gender. And, many females arrive gravid and in poor condition so you would be extremely lucky that she would lay them without trouble, or that the eggs would develop.

I'd re-adjust my thinking...get your chams stabilized and through a year's hormonal cycle and then consider breeding.

 

[Ladynyce]

Neither of these animals should be exposed to the demands of breeding for many months, and when you will also know them a lot better.

And, as Nick said, sexing melleri is very difficult. I'd be hugely surprised if the shop had any clue to their gender. And, many females arrive gravid and in poor condition so you would be extremely lucky that she would lay them without trouble, or that the eggs would develop.

I'd re-adjust my thinking...get your chams stabilized and through a year's hormonal cycle and then consider breeding.

Thank you so much guys! I figured since the other meller is apperantly a male I wanted to get him because we do nit have mellers in Ontario like that at all. But I understand what ur saying! How would I know if she is gravid? She is starting to become more tamed with me now. Shes in the moment of shading at the moment and doesn't want to be bothered. Since they had both mellers in the same cage for months I figured they would do fine togther. Well I guess I will get my deposit back on the other meller tomorrow and read more about them. U just wanted to get himbefore he is gone. Thats all ... Thanks for ur help

 

[ChamLady]

I would love to have some melleri, but after researching decided that I need to gain some general experience first. I wish you the best. Read all you can, and enjoy.
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/

 

[Carlton]

How would I know if she is gravid?

You'll need to start weighing "her". Weight gain and getting rounded an bulky looking are signs of being gravid. Take photos and compare them every week or so.

If someone actually sees hemipenes when the cham defecates that's a sure fire way to know what sex it is.

 

[Tay And A]

i personally wouldnt recommend breeding mellers right now. check out the chameleon farm(karen) and chameleon rescue. many mellers are dying these past few months due to weird bacteria in their mouths and other unknown reasons. it would be sad to buy an animal that u dont have much experience with and it dies suddenly like the two above groups mellers have been =(

 

[pssh]

I've also heard that mellers will reabsorb their eggs (it sounds like more often than other species seem to) so even if you do have a female and she is gravid, she could reabsorb her eggs. Maybe that's not the case, but if you suspect she is gravid, maybe an X-Ray can help confirm.

I'm wondering how the pet store knows that they have a pair. Maybe you could ask how? If they, surprisingly, happen to have a method that works, I'm sure other keepers would like to know since it is so difficult to sex mellers for even experienced keepers.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'll tell you my tricks for sexing-

First- seperate and visually isolate the animals for a few weeks, just like any other chameleon.

Then- show one to the other. Males do the typical male chameleon thing- nod and lobe flap. Females also do the typical female chameleon thing- gape and rock side to side.

Once visually isolated for a while, they behave just like any other chameleon when re-introduced to their own kind.

Secret shared.

Kind of makes one wonder about the general thought about them being socially different from other chameleons...

Pre fire I had to be really careful with my males enclosure locations- when they could see each other they would spend all day flaring up at each other.

Secondly, once established and normal body weight and hydration, you can start to tell by looking at them too. Females have typical chameleon female body shape from above- where the abdomen is wider- "pear" shaped. Males are more streamlined, again typical male chameleon shape from above. Take a look at male and female panthers, jacksons, veileds, etc from above and you will see what I am talking about. Mellers are the same.

 

[Mike Fisher]

I'll tell you my tricks for sexing-

First- seperate and visually isolate the animals for a few weeks, just like any other chameleon.

Then- show one to the other. Males do the typical male chameleon thing- nod and lobe flap. Females also do the typical female chameleon thing- gape and rock side to side.

Once visually isolated for a while, they behave just like any other chameleon when re-introduced to their own kind.

Secret shared.

Very smart! Why do simple things like this escape most keepers?

 

[fluxlizard]

Very smart! Why do simple things like this escape most keepers?

I'll take that compliment because as far as I know I was the first to figure that out. kept it secret for years too.

 

[Mike Fisher]

I'll take that compliment because as far as I know I was the first to figure that out. kept it secret for years too.

Seems obvious after you mention it, but so do most things that involve common sense. Well played.

 

[MSAquatics]

Males tend to show more aggression towards others as well, and once you've seen it, the female's hip bones are much more pronounced and wider. My male will get as close as he can to my male veiled's cage and just stare at him. I tried to introduce my male veiled to my melleri's free range on seperate occasions, and the male melleri chases him around like squirrels fighting, trying to obviously hurt the veiled. The female just gapes and rocks back and forth.

 

[Olimpia]

I can attest that my large adult female fits Flux's description, and I noticed it too when I first got her. Even at a very good weight her hip bones are prominent and wider apart, and she carries more weight towards the back of her abdomen.

Where as my unknown youngster, I am leaning towards male with him. I think he's one of the few that have a more prominent bulge. He's not full grown so I won't judge him on anything else (like how narrow he is in the hips, at least right now) until he is but I am getting subtle signs of masculinity from him. We'll see with time if I'm right.

 

[leedragon]

you just crack the melleri code

 

[fluxlizard]

you just crack the melleri code

No, not just- I've known for years but kept it to myself hoping to be the first to have a large population of melleri breeding actively. Unfortunately, post fire, that will not happen any time soon and I'm worried now that they may be unavailable before I can afford to get going on them again. They are expensive to house and use a lot of space, and a risky proposition still- sexing is only one part of the battle. So I've got to concentrate on species for a few years that are a more sure thing as I can't afford to gamble much right now.

So I'm putting it out there hoping someone will use the info. A commercial operation that deals with imports could set things up so at least they sell sexed animals for example- isolate them while acclimating and deparasitising and then show them to each other to identify sex. At the very least they would be able to identify many males after a few weeks time this way, and offer likely females with some confidence.

Otherwise, at least a potential breeder could get several at a time, and do the same and offer surplus sexed individuals after a month or two...

I really believe some of the "social" ideas about this species are a myth, and that myth is the reason sexing them has remained difficult- if they are housed together and see each other all the time, normal stereotypical sexual behavior becomes stifled to keep the peace. Years ago I tried similar with veileds, panthers, jacksons- it was the same with those guys too. And reproductive activity dropped way off with those that I tried- I think it is the same with melleri.

Years ago when these guys were not bred yet, I remember hearing the myth the first time that they only reproduced when kept in groups called pods, because they were social. I've bred them a few times now, each time they bred just like normal chameleons- isolated and introduced weekly, watched the behavior response, and when receptive introduced the male for breeding and removed him afterwards, then re-introduced daily until the female was not receptive. Breeding can sometimes be a little shy and take the male a little time, but otherwise everything works the same. And sometimes males are not shy at all for that matter- so maybe that is the same too.

If someone really wants to succeed, keep them isolated like other chameleons and bring them together only for breeding like other chameleons. They are the same as other chameleons when kept this way.

 

[CarlC]

The hip bone displacement can be seen in most species. When buying young wild caught females you could always tell if they were still virgin by looking at the hips.

Carl

 

[Olimpia]

I've been thinking about what Flux said the last few days and I'd like to just throw out some ideas, for the sake of adding to any interesting discussion about this species.

The "pod" lifestyle may be a myth, but it's always made sense to me for the following reason so I'm just going to explain it.

With a huge portion of chameleons we see very obvious sexual dimorphism - the males and females look very different from each other when mature. We know that chameleons are this way due to sexual selection, in that the males have to compete amongst each other for females (who hold all the power to be choosy) and so get bigger (usually), have brighter colors, sport bigger horns to duel with, etc., to win over the hearts of the ladies. And since the females don't have to compete for mates they stay more bland, as the only selective pressure they feel is to be the most optimum size to breed (which is why some females are larger than males).

Something else we know in ecology is that even in species we know or believe are monogamous, if there is sexual dimorphism then we know there is adultery. Because they wouldn't need to be very elaborate if all they have to do is find a single lifetime mate. And in studies this has proved to be true, these species are just "socially monogamous" and the males will sneak off to fertilize other females besides their social mate. Only animals that are identical, such as parrots or penguins, truly form life-bonds with their mates.

So as we know, in melleri we have no sexual dimorphism. The males aren't bigger, flashier, more colorful, etc. We don't have any evidence, that I'm aware of, that they form pairs either in the wild or in captivity but it's definitely something interesting to think about. It could be a way (just as females mimic male behavior and coloring) to protect their own territory from anyone else, male or female, but it's still an interesting observation.