Need help/suggestions for Veiled Chameleon in glass tank

[Thrunthru]

Greetings chameleon's lovers (haha),

My girl and I want to recreate our veiled Chameleon's habitation and we want to keep the water fall (water at the bottom that pumps the water up and creates a waterfall with the 3D background).

We both know that a glass tank is somewhat a bad idea for chameleon due to a lack of ventilation and that the glass blocks the UV light, but within our budget that's what we were able to afford (meaning the ExoTerra glass tank + extras) and we did not know any better back then. We assumed that keeping a chamelelon was as much doable as keeping an arboreal tarantula - we were never been so wrong! Anyways, we also want our chameleon to chase down the crickets that we give her, although, most of the time, those little insects find their way into the bottom and drowns...

Perhaps one day we'll be able to modifier the tank's top unto a more ventilated enclosure as seen here, but right now we have to work with what we have.

Anyhow, wanting to keep the setup as simple as possible, here are what we want to have/keep :
- Water at bottom, possibly 1/2 of water and 1/2 of substrate divided by a plexiglass
- Remove the possibily of crickets hidding behind the background, drowning or else
- (If possible with instructions) to change one or both glass doors with mesh for air ventilation

That's for now.

By the way, the glass tank size is 18 x 18 x 24 inch.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Greetings chameleon's lovers (haha),

My girl and I want to recreate our veiled Chameleon's habitation and we want to keep the water fall (water at the bottom that pumps the water up and creates a waterfall with the 3D background). Waterfalls are generally frowned on by most of the community here. They are extremely hard to keep clean unless you want to clean the water out every twelve hours, and make sure the chameleon does not poop in it, or that no feeders die inside the water. They are a huge breeding ground for bacteria and disgusting things.

We both know that a glass tank is somewhat a bad idea for chameleon due to a lack of ventilation and that the glass blocks the UV light, but within our budget that's what we were able to afford (meaning the ExoTerra glass tank + extras) and we did not know any better back then. Generally, glass tanks that I've seen are even more expensive than screen, nice, ventilated tanks. It's very easy to afford a 100$ or less 24x24x48 inch *(screen) cage just by saving a bit of money. If it is not possible to get a screen cage for a veiled chameleon, I would say, get rid of the chameleon or invest in a screen cage. We assumed that keeping a chamelelon was as much doable as keeping an arboreal tarantula - we were never been so wrong! Correct. Anyways, we also want our chameleon to chase down the crickets that we give her, although, most of the time, those little insects find their way into the bottom and drowns... There is your problem. If your chameleon is getting the water source from the cricket-drowning-pool, that is a problem. The crickets would start to rot or decompose when you're away and infect the water with all sorts of nasty things, if in fact your chameleon does drink from the water. Get rid of that water and fountain. In fact, clean it up, sell it for a good price for someone who has, say, frogs or something, and then save up and purchase either a handheld plant mister (pressurized by hand and lightly sprayed across cage) or a misting system such as MistKing or Aquazamp. Those are essential for creating drops of water on the leaves or realistic rain that your chameleon will drink if it is thirsty. Plus, this gives 0% chance of a bug actually drowning in anything.

Perhaps one day we'll be able to modifier the tank's top unto a more ventilated enclosure as seen here, but right now we have to work with what we have. That cage link you posted is already a bad idea. Experienced members in that thread are recommending that he get a screen cage ASAP for his chameleons. And his chameleons are Jackson's chameleons, which require even more humidity than a veiled. You need a screen cage, or at least have the door and top be made of screen on your cage. You really shouldn't try to "work with what" you have, since it's not ideal at all. Unless you live in a very dry or very cold environment, a glass cage is unnecessary.

Anyhow, wanting to keep the setup as simple as possible, here are what we want to have/keep :
- Water at bottom, possibly 1/2 of water and 1/2 of substrate divided by a plexiglass Substrate is a huge no-no. It is a risk for impaction (chameleons can and will eat substrate when they want to, unless your substrate is just large rocks) and can give all sorts of nooks an' crannies for your bugs to hide in, die in, and lay eggs in. All of those are usually bad. Water is also a no-no. Did you see my comment on how your bugs die in the waterfall? Adding more water is not good. If anything, you need a draining system rather than having a chance that your chameleon/bugs could drown in the bottom of the cage.
- Remove the possibily of crickets hidding behind the background, drowning or else Ah! Here's some sense. Removing the possibility of drowning and hiding. You've got a good idea here. To do that, you'd need to a) get rid of the water.... b) get rid of dirt on the bottom. As for them hiding behind a background, you could always remove the background or try and get it down so that there are no hiding places. I don't know what to tell you with the background. Most of us don't use those.
- (If possible with instructions) to change one or both glass doors with mesh for air ventilation I would change both glass doors to mesh, and have the top be mesh as well. That is a good idea.

That's for now.

By the way, the glass tank size is 18 x 18 x 24 inch. That is too small for any adult veiled chameleon, even a female. The minimal requirement is a 24x24x48 inch cage, which are easily found on the internet. Maybe you could get away with an 18x18x30 for a female, but the bigger, the better. Eventually you're going to need to ditch the current tank or find a way to make it bigger.

I may sound a bit harsh, but posts like these usually bother me. You have some previous posts, and it looks like you've done some previous researching (the thread you linked in your post), but you need to understand a few things before you even have a chameleon.

-Water at the bottom is bad
-Water falls are frowned upon because bacteria and dead things get in there
-Drainage systems ARE A MUST in the hobby
-Substrate is frowned on, but using something a chameleon cannot swallow is good. (river rocks large enough not to be eaten)
-Glass is also frowned upon unless you have a species that needs tons of mist, or unless you live in an area that's hard to keep temps/humidity up.

My edits are in red, if you were wondering. If you have a chameleon currently, I suggest you make the changes ASAP, and also wait for more tweaks and advice from members.

People here are always willing to help improve the conditions of people's pets by providing new research, information, advice, and personal stories. Don't be afraid to ask!

Always here to help even if I might sound a bit mean.

 

[Thrunthru]

I may sound a bit harsh, but posts like these usually bother me. You have some previous posts, and it looks like you've done some previous researching (the thread you linked in your post), but you need to understand a few things before you even have a chameleon.

-Water at the bottom is bad
-Water falls are frowned upon because bacteria and dead things get in there
-Drainage systems ARE A MUST in the hobby
-Substrate is frowned on, but using something a chameleon cannot swallow is good. (river rocks large enough not to be eaten)
-Glass is also frowned upon unless you have a species that needs tons of mist, or unless you live in an area that's hard to keep temps/humidity up.

My edits are in red, if you were wondering. If you have a chameleon currently, I suggest you make the changes ASAP, and also wait for more tweaks and advice from members.

People here are always willing to help improve the conditions of people's pets by providing new research, information, advice, and personal stories. Don't be afraid to ask!

Always here to help even if I might sound a bit mean.

Hello SaintJimmy,


Thank you for answering. It is a very clever way with the red coloring!

Money will ALWAYS be an issue, and so will time with patience and all.

However, here is the list to which we agreed on :
-Keep the tank (because getting a screen cage now is waaaaayyy too expensive);
-Remove the 3D background (it will free some space for the chameleon);
-Remove the waterfall + water at the bottom;
-Get one/two wooden sticks/branches;
-Get a tropical wallpaper (which will be applied to the outside of the tank);
-Get a water dripper + a large pland that will be an addon for the dripper;
-Keep the green carpet at the bottom (which will replace the subtrate).


Now, with that all, do we still need to figure out a draining system?

EDIT : I would install a suitable wide bucket with ExoTerra's Bio Drain Mesh on clipped top (so that crix won't drown). And every once a while, we would need to throw the water out. That same water that would fall down from the dripper.

 

[Saldarya]

You keep saying that the screen cage is to expensive, however, if you sold the current set up you could easily buy the screen cage.

The fact is this, you want to set up a cage that is aestheticly pleasing to you, not what is best foe the animal regardless of what everyone is telling you.

I'd strongly suggest you either take the advice that you asked for, or you are going to harm this animal.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you cannot afford the screen cage, how are you going to afford the vet bill when the chameleon gets sick from improper housing?

 

[BKFritz]

I applaud you seeking advise before you buy a chameleon. Some things in chameleon care can be debated...do we bake our stick, or not; do we treat tap water, or not; 5.0 or 10.0 UVB? But SaintJimmy is giving you some good facts. I would take the advice.

Like Saldarya said, "If you cannot afford the screen cage, how are you going to afford the vet bill when the chameleon gets sick from improper housing?" If I were in you position, I would suggest holding off on purchasing a cham until you can afford a proper enclosure. Or perhaps, if you or someone you know is handy, you could build one. I believe we built our 2x2x4 enclosure for less than $60.

You can save money by using branches found in nature (FREE); using an old milk jug or bucket with a small hole as a dripper rather than purchasing one; a cheap dollar store spray bottle to mist with instead of an expensive automated mister; use inexpensive house hold bulbs for basking instead of the expensive ones from the pet store; start breeding your own feeders....

If you think about it, a new screened enclosure will, more or less, pay for itself in time when you don't have to take you cham to the vet because of a respiratory infection brought on by an improperly ventilated enclosure. Just some food-for-thought.

 

[Thrunthru]

You keep saying that the screen cage is to expensive, however, if you sold the current set up you could easily buy the screen cage.

The fact is this, you want to set up a cage that is aestheticly pleasing to you, not what is best foe the animal regardless of what everyone is telling you.

I'd strongly suggest you either take the advice that you asked for, or you are going to harm this animal.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you cannot afford the screen cage, how are you going to afford the vet bill when the chameleon gets sick from improper housing?

We have already tried selling the enclosure for nearly a year, even the chameleon for other reason, but only few people responded and they were asking for nearly give them the chameleon for free. That was none-sense!

I'm already looking forward to replace the glass doors with mesh soon, or perhaps have some one do it for me.

 

[Thrunthru]

(...) Or perhaps, if you or someone you know is handy, you could build one. I believe we built our 2x2x4 enclosure for less than $60.

Do you have a website with your handiwork? I know that I have mentioned that we lack resources, especially money, but would you know someone who may sell one screen cage somewhere in Montreal, or around?

Shipment cost for the product is another problem though.

 

[oblgobl]

One of the biggest problems is that the cham will outgrow the enclouser in less than a year. Is it possible for you to save say $30 a month then get a screen cage for him in a few months time? Some people who have made homemade enclousers post guides on how they did it. Do you have a family member or friend who is handy and willing to help you out?
Unfortunately when people first get these animals they often underestimate the cost of keeping them. If you cannot afford to buy him a screen cage, like others have said you cannot afford vet treatment when (and chams often do) he gets sick.
At the risk of upsetting you I think you might need to seriously think about rehoming him. The fact is that you need money to care for these guys, I know times are hard and that it's unfair but that's how it is. You said before that you tried but didn't get offered much, unfortunately that's likely going to be the case. Second hand equipment looses much of it's initial value and yemen chams are so commonly being rehomed and are inexpensive to buy in pet stores that people won't pay much for a rehome.

 

[BKFritz]

Do you have a website with your handiwork? I know that I have mentioned that we lack resources, especially money, but would you know someone who may sell one screen cage somewhere in Montreal, or around?

Shipment cost for the product is another problem though.

I have a picture on my profile.

It's really simple to build. It doesn't have to be super fancy. If you have a drill you can make one. Just get some 2x2's make a cube. Add a door and some screen. The husband went beyond what was really needed so you could probably build one for nearly half what we paid. I'm not sure what lumber prices are where you are but we pay around $3 for an 8ft, 2x2. For a basic 2x2x4, you would probably need around 7 or 8 2x2's (8ft long) add screws, hardware and screen you wouldn't pay more than $30-$40. Untreated wood is cheaper. Most lumber yards will cut your lumber to specified sizes so you wouldn't even need a saw. You would probably also want to polyurethane or varnish it to keep the wood from rotting if you used untreated and to keep the chemicals from leaching out if you were to go with treated stuff.

Pre made cages are really convenient, but it definitely cheaper to build your own. The enclosure you have right now might work, with the right modifications, but veileds (adult chams in general) will require something bigger then 18x18x24. If you have to use it, I would still save up so you can get him/her into something bigger when the time comes.