Need help with potentially gravid veiled chameleon

[HaysStanford]

My veiled chameleon's abdomen has been getting bigger and bigger over the past few days and she has recently become very lethargic. I have noticed a gradual change in her demeanor over the past week and a half. Now, she will not move and when I go to pick her up. She will hiss a little but that's it; unlike before when she would bite me and loudly hiss. (I do not choose to handle my chameleon much).

I got her about 6 months ago. She is around 9 months old now, and I've read that this is usually the time when they first start to produce eggs. I'm not sure if she has pooped in the last week so the problem could be constipation. Prior to knowing better, I used wood chips as substrate and I have yet to change it out, so this could be a potential cause as well (accidential ingestion=constipation).

She has the light blue "robin egg" spots that chameleons get when they are gravid, though she has become very dark, practically brown, in most areas of her body.

Today is the first day she has been immobile for a whole day. I have recently placed my chameleon in a self made hatching chamber with around 6-8 inches of potting soil. She was not actively scratching at the side of her cage, but she was on the floor of her cage for the entire day today and i have spotted her laying on the floor a few hours each day for the past few days.

Her eyes seem normal and she has had a constant waterfall flow, so I don't think the problem is dehydration. She has eaten very little the past few days and today she has eaten nothing. Please help me figure out what the problem may be with my female veiled chameleon. (In the first picture the light was bright and so the contrast is set to where you cant really see her full color and in the second picture she is sleeping).

 

[Tifanydalpont]

looks likeit but ive never had a female

 

[AngieL]

Hi there! She does look like she may be gravid but to me she doesn't appear to be in good health so there could be something else wrong with her

Please can you fill out this form https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and the members here might be able to give you an idea.

If this was my girl, I would take her to the vet asap. Hope we can help you.

EDIT: Do you have alayong bin available for her? And is it appropriately sized and moistened?

 

[HaysStanford]

species: veiled chameleon
sex: female
age: 9 months
time in my care: 6 months
handling: i handle my chameleon rarely, maybe 1 time a month at most
food: i feed my chameleon a mix of crickets and giant meal worms. im not sure how many she eats but id have to say its usually been 6 crickets or 12 mealworms a day, only up until recently its has become around 3 crickets a day or 6 mealworms. I feed her only when she runs out of her food. The mealworms arent gutloaded but im fairly sure the crickets are (i buy them by the box from petco).
supplements: i give her none
watering: i use a waterfall to water my chameleon. she does fine with the waterfall, i see her go down and drink from it alot. i only mist once a day.
fecal description:my chameleons feces are usually a darker brown tint with some slimy areas. they seem to be rather large for her size. she has never been tested for parasites.
history: my chameleon has seem very healthy up until 3 weeks ago she started having a darker shade of green, and only 4 days has she started eating less.
cage type: I keep my chameleon in a wire screen commercially made cage. the dimension are 16x16x28.
lighting: im using a zoomed reptispot 75watt basking lamp and a zoomed compact reptisun UVB lamp. I usually turn the lights off at 2-4 a.m. and turn them on at 2-4 p.m..
temperature: i dont have a thermometer anywhere but my chameleon has always seemed to do well with the basking lamp like 5.5 inches above her head. at night the temp of my house is around 71 degrees fahrenheit.
humidity: i have no idea what the humidity is, but i try to mist once a day.
plants: i use fake plants from a reputable commercial brand.
placement: my cage is placed at the corner of my large living room. its is 12 feet from a hallway so people walk by it at a relatively far distance and my chameleon has never seemed to notice.
location: i live in austin, texas.
current problem: i explained this earlier at the very start of the post.

 

[HaysStanford]

oh and yes i currently have her in a laying been with moist potting soil.

 

[AngieL]

species: veiled chameleon
sex: female
age: 9 months
time in my care: 6 months
handling: i handle my chameleon rarely, maybe 1 time a month at most
food: i feed my chameleon a mix of crickets and giant meal worms. im not sure how many she eats but id have to say its usually been 6 crickets or 12 mealworms a day, only up until recently its has become around 3 crickets a day or 6 mealworms. I feed her only when she runs out of her food. The mealworms arent gutloaded but im fairly sure the crickets are (i buy them by the box from petco).A couple of things here, you would really want to add a bit more variety to her diet. Crickets are fine but mealworms are for treats only as they aren't ver nutritious and have hard shells which can be hard to digest. Some good feeders are coroaches, silk worrms and hornworms, locusts. As far as I knoe very few pet stores actually gutload so I think you would really need to improve on that. Remember, the chameleon eats what the bugs eat so it's vital to gutload well to give your girl the vitamins. Also she's eating too much for a fe,ale of that age. If you want to help her produce less eggs (this will prolong her life) then you should be feeding 3 feeders a day or 4-6 feeders every 2 days needs. Here is a link to sandrachameleons blog for gutloading https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/
supplements: i give her none You should be using plain calcium daily and calcium with d3 twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month. This is very very important for chameleons in captivity and especially the calcium for the females as they use a lot during egg production. If she can't produce enough calcium for her eggs she won't be able to form them or lay them and may die from becoming egg bound. Also any chameleon that is not properly supplemented could get metabolic bone disease. Your girls bones do look a bit curved and i suspect this could be the start of mbd
watering: i use a waterfall to water my chameleon. she does fine with the waterfall, i see her go down and drink from it alot. i only mist once a day.Waterfalls are a breeding ground for bacteria. You should have a dripper going through the day and mist at least 4 tiomes a day for a few minuttes at a time. Your girl looks alittle dehydrated as her eyes are slightly sunken in.
fecal description:my chameleons feces are usually a darker brown tint with some slimy areas. they seem to be rather large for her size. she has never been tested for parasites.
history: my chameleon has seem very healthy up until 3 weeks ago she started having a darker shade of green, and only 4 days has she started eating less.
cage type: I keep my chameleon in a wire screen commercially made cage. the dimension are 16x16x28.
lighting: im using a zoomed reptispot 75watt basking lamp and a zoomed compact reptisun UVB lamp. I usually turn the lights off at 2-4 a.m. and turn them on at 2-4 p.m..I don't understand this 2-4 am but you should have the lights on for 12 hours a day and off for 12 hours at night
temperature: i dont have a thermometer anywhere but my chameleon has always seemed to do well with the basking lamp like 5.5 inches above her head. at night the temp of my house is around 71 degrees fahrenheit. temperatures are very important to monitor! You really need to get a thermometer because if she's too cold then she won't be able to digest her food properly. A female should be kept at around 80f and if she is kept hotter then it can cause her to produce eggs more often.
humidity: i have no idea what the humidity is, but i try to mist once a day. as I've said it is important to mist more. You need to monitor humidity be4cause if it's too humid this can cause respitory problems and if it's too dry she will get dehydrated and may have shedding problems
plants: i use fake plants from a reputable commercial brand.
placement: my cage is placed at the corner of my large living room. its is 12 feet from a hallway so people walk by it at a relatively far distance and my chameleon has never seemed to notice.
location: i live in austin, texas.
current problem: i explained this earlier at the very start of the post.

I see from your husbandry that your girl could very well have vitamin and calcium problems and because of the amount of food she's been getting could very well be gravid at the moment. My advice would be to get her to a vet as soon as you can. Correct your suplementation as soon as you can and get thing to measure temps and humidity.

She looks to e in poor condition and I suspect that if she is gravid she is unable to lay, either because she is too week from lack of calcium and vitamins or because the eggs haven't formed properly.

 

[HaysStanford]

ill try to bring her to a vet soon! thanks for the help!

 

[AngieL]

ill try to bring her to a vet soon! thanks for the help!

You're very welcome! Please let us know how she gets on. Wishsing you all the beast

 

[camimom]

Im not sure if its the angle, but in that second pic, it looks like her back left leg is broken..
Im concerned she may have MBD.

asky our vet to take x rays, this can determine if she does indeed have eggs, as well as if there is a calcium deficiency in her bones.

 

[HaysStanford]

Im pretty sure her back leg isnt broken, i think it is just the camera angle. However her bones do seem a very tiny bit curved. You guys are probably right, i should have dusted my crickets and mealworms . she still is a very nice shade of green when she is sleeping. I really hope she is not in pain, and if she is i will probably have to euthanize her please understand that its not because i dont care for her, I just dont want her to die a painful death and live a painful life when she doesnt have to This is obviously my fault and i should have done a better job taking care of her.

 

[camimom]

Even if she has MBD, its not worst case weve seen.

she can live a normal life if you get it corrected right way.

any damage that has been done cant be reversed, but the disease can be stopped.

talk to your vet and see what they say.

 

[HaysStanford]

That great! I really hope she can make it through this. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[AngieL]

You don't need to put her down if she has mbd. If you take her to a vet and get her some calcium sorted and make some changes she could have a good enough quality of life

 

[Elizadolots]

There are lots of stories here about chameleons with MBD. While the damage can never be repaired, they can go on to live good lives and be good pets. Taking her to the vet is the most important first step. The vet can give her a series of injections that will force calcium into her bones. After that, you're going to want to keep her calcium intake high, particularly if she is carrying eggs. You might want to look into a liquid calcium supplement.

 

[HaysStanford]

would it be okay if i just mixed my powder calcium into water and use that as a liquid calcium supplement?

 

[camimom]

would it be okay if i just mixed my powder calcium into water and use that as a liquid calcium supplement?

you can try, but it tends to leave icky residue on your plants, ntm, some chams may not dirnk it cuz they dont like that taste.

 

[HaysStanford]

I just got her to eat 2 meal worms! Im trying to keep water dripping around her and she really seems to like it when I drip it on her. She still has just been laying in the same spot, but i figure the meal worms will help her regain her energy.

 

[Lukie Pookie]

Im not sure if its the angle, but in that second pic, it looks like her back left leg is broken..
Im concerned she may have MBD.

asky our vet to take x rays, this can determine if she does indeed have eggs, as well as if there is a calcium deficiency in her bones.

I'm no vet but from the pictures I've seen from the forum that leg doesn't look too hot. It really does look like MBD or broken bone

 

[Zen]

feed it some calcium everyday

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

would it be okay if i just mixed my powder calcium into water and use that as a liquid calcium supplement?

No, that is not the same concentration as a liquid calcium syrup. Your female is in need of immediate veterinary attention. Lethargy and weakness when gravid is an indication of being eggbound, which is life threatening. I agree her hindlimb looks fractured and it sounds like she is a prime candidate for MBD based on the husbandry details provided, but it is too late for the conservative approach. If she is low in calcium then she may not be able to physically lay her eggs even if she tried (calcium is needed to push), and she's in no shape to try based on the pictures. She needs aggressive treatment and potentially surgery to remove the eggs or she could die. I'm not trying to scare you, I just want to emphasize the urgency of her condition and the danger she is in. She needs a reptile vet now. Start calling around asap in the morning to find a qualified reptile vet before everyone closes for the weekend.

Edit: just realized this thread is over 6 months old...so no point in responding.