needing help with a WC

[jandie]

Chameleon Info:
Name of your cham - Scrye
Your Chameleon - female panther cham, approx 5 1/2-6 months old, in our care for not quite 2 months yet
Handling - once weekly, but more lately because after taking her to the vet, i've had to administer medicine every other day
Feeding - feeding small to med. crickets once a day, depending on if she eats them all....with the smalls, i usually put 5 in there; gutloading with one of the flukers cricket foods (partially for the water) and a "meal" that the vet provided....not sure what all it is made of....; i've tried silk worms and mealworms and she hasn't touched either; i've been trying to order phoenix worms, but having trouble with "out of stock"
Supplements - reptical (i think) calcuim without d3 4-5x a week; miner-all (berry flavored) with d3 once every other week
Watering - handmisting 2-3x daily and ice cubes or a dripper throughout the day...have not physically seen her drinking but from the urate samples and the vet visit (2 weeks ago), no sign of dehydration
Fecal Description - urate white and "normal"; fecal not runny or abnormal and the vet did a cloacal (sp?) flush and sent off a fecal sample for testing; medication is for small amout of amoeba found during the flush
History - no history from the reptile store other than the fact that she had just laid an infertile clutch of eggs before we bought her

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen cage, approx. 24wx24lx36h...she was in a slightly smaller cage, but the vet suggested a larger one
Lighting - powersun 100w in a deep dome on top of the cage, approx 6 inches from the top of her plant top....12 hrs a day, sometimes a little more, but i try to keep it pretty regular from about 8-8
Temperature - ambient room temp is usually around 75, even with the air conditioner running, sometimes a little higher...directly under the screen/dome light, between 85-90 and at the top of her tree typically around 80-85; at night sometimes down to 70-73 or so
Humidity - humidity is 40-50% with live plants and hand misting, measured with a hydrometer
Plants - she has a live hibiscus and some fake vine/leaves, no substrate
Placement - the cage is in the corner of the living room, not directly under a fan or vent...as low traffic as i can make it with our other animals...her cage is beside another cage, but there is a cover between her cage and the other and hers is closest to the wall...both are sitting on a coffee table with the bottom of the cage approx 2 inches above the floor, so the top of her cage is higher than me when i'm sitting on the couch in the living room
Location - southern california

Current Problem - current problem is she seems "stressed" and upset ALL the time...i took her to the vet 2 weeks ago partially because of that and concern that maybe she had eggs or was egg-bound following that other clutch before we bought her....i put a sand laying bin in the cage with her because she was walking around the bottom of the cage a lot, but she never dug or anything and the x-rays showed no egg folicles.

my concern is that i've done everything the vet recommended and i've tried to remove every aspect of stress that i can, but nothing is calming her down. she doesn't "act" stressed....other than the fact that you can't really handle her....but she eats, she moves around...and occassionally i'll find her in her "happy colors"...but it's rare. and the vet seems to think she is actually a WC cham, not CB as we were told by the reptile store (which he said would also explain the amoeba and fact that she doesn't like to be handled) and that she may always be like this while she's in captivity. i have no way to free range her at this time....so i'm wondering two things.....

1. if anyone who has experience with WC chams has any like her and how you handle them....
2. i've considered trying to find someone who either has experience or at least has free range ability to possibly find her a "better" home, but i hate to give up a family member....so at what point do i decide i can't do any more for her?

any help would be greatly appreciated.

i tried to upload a couple pics earlier but kept getting an error message.... i will try again in the morning or put them on photobucket or something with a link if that won't work...

 

[jannb]

Hello and welcome to the forums. First I see that you are keeping her basking spot way to hot. I would drop that temp to the very low 80's (80 to 82).

I would recommend you set up a free range for her. Could you imagine being wild and able to run free and then being captured and put in a cage? In the past my daughter has bought WC chams and put them in a cage and allot of them died. Some would never eat of course she would force feed but some just gave up the will to live. Once she started to FR them they really started to come around and most became very friendly.

 

[warpdrive]

I agree that your basking temps need to be lowered into the low 80s.
but that is not causing her stress. yet it could be adding to her need to get lower in the cage.

some chameleons are quite shy and need a lot of alone time.
you might notice this more with females then with male panthers.

while I respect Jannb's thought on free ranging, I have a lot of concerns about that in your case.
first of all, this female is kept in a high trafic area that seems to have some pets running around and should be the cause of the stress as it is.
her cage also needs to be set up higher if kept in that room. it would be better if the BOTTOM of her cage was above you when you are sitting down on your couch.

free ranging, at least in a room that might not be safe for the animal in question and is clearly showing huge signs of stress is not what I would advise to a beginer. yet it is something to think about in a quiet room away from other pets and people, and is made safe or cham proof.

I'm also not too sure what light you are using for her UVB needs. she will need a reptisun 5.0 liner bulb.

my advise would be to move her cage to a quieter room with far less trafic of your other animals. stop trying to handle her unless she clearly wants out and seems to want you to help her to go out side her cage.
keep trying to hand feed her, but don't drive her nuts...and be well below her when trying to feed or water her. she is clearly not too sure about human contact right now and you need to earn her trust.

I would also like to point out that Flukers gutloading products are great for the crickets but not so great for our chameleons.
do a quick search and learn what high calcium greens and fruit/veggies you should be using to feed your feeders.

Harry

 

[jandie]

yeah, the flukers is what we started with and like i said, we're now actually gutloading them with both that (mainly for the water) and the stuff the vet gave us....i can certainly look at the basking temps and try to lower those, though she only stayed lower in the cage for about a week...which was what led to the concern about the eggs and such (i wasn't very clear with that part). i will definitely look into the suggestion for the gutloading... i've been reading through the forums and making a list for the next "grocery" trip. lol.

as far as the high traffic area, the hubby is deployed and we have no kids, so really it's me and the dogs, but the dogs are constantly supervised and not allowed into the area of her cage....and i would love to be able to free range, but as i said before, i don't really have the ability to do that.... before the vet recommended she be placed in a bigger cage, hers was up a little higher...so maybe it would be better to go back to the other cage too?

to answer regarding the light, the powersun is a mercury vapor UVB lamp that also provides heat and UVA. but i may need to buy stands for them or pull them up higher. i also read somewhere that angling them might be a "better" set up too vs. directly above?

to be honest, she was doing better (more periods of "calm") before the vet visit and i'm wondering if it's just been the additional handling that is keeping her stressed. our other 4 chams are in the same room....slightly different cage setups as far as size and placement....and they are all doing really well, so i'm thinking it's a big factor with the WC status....

everyone here has been so great with the advice and help so far, i'm glad i found this forum!

 

[jandie]

oh, forgot to mention, the dogs are crated through the day while i'm at work...so the majority of their day, there's actually no traffic in the room.... and she is usually "happy colors" in the mornings and sometimes by the end of the night....so maybe adjusting the temps will help a great deal.

 

[jannb]

Of course I would only recommend free range IF you have a safe area to free range in.

 

[Olimpia]

My first chameleon was my WC Jackson's, Othello. At first he was so shy, he wouldn't eat if I was in the room, and was just terified of me. But in about 4-5 months I completely won him over. And I didn't have to handle him to tame him. I swear I won him over using food and warm showers! I think our biggest breakthrough was one day when I was misting with warm water and he came right out as close to me as possible and sat there with his eyes closed enjoying the shower. It was a huge sign of trust for me. And now handeling him is not a problem. Jackson's are in general a very "sweet" docile species, but there's no reason you can't win her over either.

I wish I'd known about free ranging when I first got him, because I think he would have been so much happier instead of spending 14 months in a cage before I could finally free range him. Now that he's "free" he has so much more personality, it's great.