New Cham Owner, black tail issue.

[pretty]

I went to Repticon planning on finding some bromelaids and tank accessories. I ended up purchasing 2 Veiled Chameleon babes. One male, one female. The male is Orvis, she is Sage.

I want to be sure that what is going on with Orvis's tail is okay to watch and wait out at home. If he needs to be seen by a vet please say so.

Orvis has a dark area on his tail- The vendor told me 'It's no biggie, it will heal and grow back' I figured either way he looked healthy otherwise and I'd take him home and give him a much better living situation.

Sage has a few black/dark spots on her, but she seems to be extra clumsy and I am hoping they are just bruises- She is mid-shed right now.

I know their tanks should be taller then they are wide. I happened to have an extra 55 gallon so I set it up. My husband and I plan on building them separate tall screen cages since the temps and humidity are good for them in my plant room.

Here they are.. Pics were taken last night so they both were sleeping:
Orvis and his black tail tip

Sage mid-shed

Temp tank where they are now:

Their tank in the works:

Chameleon Info:
My Chameleon - I have 2 Veiled, not sure about the age was told about a month or so old. I've had them for 5 days.

Handling - Once or twice a day if he allows it. I don't pick them up but I offer my finger for them to crawl onto or crawl away from. I'd like for them to be comfortable being handled/tame.

Feeding - Dusted and gut-loaded crickets once daily- using small sizes. They are each eating 4-6 crix each at a time. I remove uneaten crix when they no longer show interest. Feeding the crix an assortment of veggies and potatoes.

Supplements - I have both Repti Calcium w/ D3 and ReptoCal with D3. I dust every other day.

Watering - The tank they are in now (while I'm finishing their home since they were unexpected) has a waterfall wall that drips down a vine/plant. I've seen them both drinking drops of water off leaves as they fall. I mist twice, morning and night about 20-25 pumps to moisten the plants and moss I have growing in the vivarium.

Fecal Description - So far all have been yellow tipped but mostly white urate, brown firm poo. The urate is 1/4 yellow on the tip and 3/4 of it is white and is about the same length as the brown poo part. Although, I'm not sure who's poo is who's...

History - I got them from repticon, so you know they were housed with about 15 other cham's the same size for sale. They were two of the most active out of the group, and still are active during the day. Orvis has gaped at me a couple times before either turning away from my hand or climbing onto my finger.

Cage Info:
Cage Type -Glass and screen combo 55g living planted vivarium with a drip waterfall wall. (temp, his new cage will be the same just with more horizontal vines for him to crawl on)

Lighting - They are on a 14/10 light sched. Use a combo of lights, a 10w ReptiGlo UV bulb, a 48" fluorescent 6400k 3000 lumen fixture, and a ceramic heat bulb.

Temperature - The tank is 65-75 at the bottom/cooler size and 90-110 in the basking area. Temps taken with a laser thermometer.

Humidity - Humidity stays above 60%. There is a running waterfall and small pond area in the tank plus twice daily misting. I keep a hygrometer mid-height in the tank at all times.

Plants - Live plants. Asst. bromelaids, Schefflera arbricola (Moon Drop/ Umbrella Plant), Hoya carinosa (Wax Plant), Begonia rex, live sphagnum moss, java moss, sheet moss, Drosera capensis, Drosera burmannii, and Tradescantia zebrina.

Placement - The enclosure is kept in my plant room about eye level (5ft-ish) There is a small fan to keep the air circulating in the room and 2 humidifiers. The only traffic is when we go into the room to check on the plants and tanks.

Location - I live in Charleston, SC

 

[Deevo]

I found this here for you
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/tail-vent/

But it looks like a bruise to me. I would just closely monitor it for now.

 

[FlChamMom]

Hopefully one of the vets will post but Orvis' tail has quite a bit gone and the tip looks necrotic. I would have him looked at by a vet. You are very sweet to take them in!

 

[carol5208]

When do you plan on getting them into the screen cages? Neither one of those fish tanks are adequate housing for chameleons as they do not provide enough ventilation. Terrariums or Screen cages will work. Your basking are is WAY too hot. Basking should be around 85 degrees or lower for babies. Are all your plants chameleon safe? Veilds eat plants so be careful. No waterfalls or ponds that breed bacteria. Do not dust with d3 more than a couple of times a month. Plain calcium everyday NO d3. No moss, no dirt. It can be injested and cause your chameleon to die. As far as the tail, it looks as if some of it is missing on the end and it will not grow back. They do not grow their tails back once they lose them. The black could be a bruise, but I agree with the other member and it does look a little necrotic. The set up in that tank is going to create stagnant, damp conditions which can set your chameleons up for respiratory infections. Also, you do know they need separate cages right? They should not be housed together or not very much longer. How old are they?

 

[pretty]

When do you plan on getting them into the screen cages? Neither one of those fish tanks are adequate housing for chameleons as they do not provide enough ventilation. Terrariums or Screen cages will work. Your basking are is WAY too hot. Basking should be around 85 degrees or lower for babies. Are all your plants chameleon safe? Veilds eat plants so be careful. No waterfalls or ponds that breed bacteria. Do not dust with d3 more than a couple of times a month. Plain calcium everyday NO d3. No moss, no dirt. It can be injested and cause your chameleon to die. As far as the tail, it looks as if some of it is missing on the end and it will not grow back. They do not grow their tails back once they lose them. The black could be a bruise, but I agree with the other member and it does look a little necrotic. The set up in that tank is going to create stagnant, damp conditions which can set your chameleons up for respiratory infections. Also, you do know they need separate cages right? They should not be housed together or not very much longer. How old are they?

Hi. I answered all of your questions in my first post- I do know they need separate cages, we're working on the plans for the screen cages right now, I listed the plants I use because yes all the plants are safe for chameleons as well as other reptiles, and I was told they are about a month old.

I knew their tails don't grow back. Most reptiles with prehensile tails that drop do not grow back. I meant to shed light on how little the vendor knew about what he was selling. He also told me he had no way of telling their gender and had no idea how old they were so he shrugged and said 'about a month or so old'

Stagnant air is not an issue where they are being kept, there is always a fan going in the room they are kept in which is actually near the top of their tanks which are screen.
The entire room is kept between 70-85 degrees daytime and 65-70 at night, 60% humidity, and has to have constant airflow.

The waterfall is in the TEMPORARY tank that was set up for a diff animal, a terrestrial animal, which is also why their basking temp is over 90 since they are arboreal and just sit closer to the lamp.
But isn't the point of the basking area and gradient temps in the enclosures to allow the animals to regulate their body temps? If the basking area is too hot I would expect the animals to stay out of it in a comfortable area, don't you think?

I have a few animals that are kept with peat moss and live moss at the bottom of their tanks. I have had no problems with impacting with any of them mainly because I do not feed in their tanks.

And as long as I've been keeping reptiles I've never heard anyone say to use so little D3. Now I'll have to get calcium without it specifically for these two.

 

[Tay And A]

Looks like one of three different possibilities- burned- broken or bitten off-necropsy you may want a vet to check on him

 

[carol5208]

Please go to our Chameleon Care Resosources on the first page and look up Care Sheets for Veild Chameleons. You can follow the care guidelines or ignore it, it is up to you. Chameleons are very different from other reptiles. People come on here with reptile experience and it really does not matter. Chameleons can be easily overdosed on d3. They are not like every other reptile. As you know, they are getting d3 from their uvb lights already. To sex the Veilds check the back of the back heel. The males have a thing called a tarsal spur. It is a little point that sticks out. As far as the tail, you did not state you knew it would grow back so that is why I said that. We can only tell you from experience what works and what does not. You can take it for what it is worth. Fish tanks do not provide proper bottom ventilation and are taboo in chameleon keeping. As far as the basking temp being too hot, no, they will still bask under it and will even burn themselves. You will see them gaping if it is too hot and they still will sit under it trying to thermoregulate. Chameleons need a lot of calcium in their diet, so the protocol which has been successful for many, many years with keepers, when they are babies is Calcium everyday NO d3. D3 with calcium twice monthly and a multi vitamin twice monthly also. You will find all this in the care sheets. As far as the moss, your chameleon may just choose to eat it. It may have nothing to do with shooting its tongue at prey and missing and getting moss in its mouth. Therefore, we recommend not to use it. What is your overall cage temp? And I don't know if you know it or not, but Veilds are plant eaters and that is why you have to be careful what you put in your enclosure.

 

[pretty]

Please go to our Chameleon Care Resosources on the first page and look up Care Sheets for Veild Chameleons. You can follow the care guidelines or ignore it, it is up to you. Chameleons are very different from other reptiles. People come on here with reptile experience and it really does not matter. Chameleons can be easily overdosed on d3. They are not like every other reptile. As you know, they are getting d3 from their uvb lights already. To sex the Veilds check the back of the back heel. The males have a thing called a tarsal spur. It is a little point that sticks out. As far as the tail, you did not state you knew it would grow back so that is why I said that. We can only tell you from experience what works and what does not. You can take it for what it is worth. Fish tanks do not provide proper bottom ventilation and are taboo in chameleon keeping. As far as the basking temp being too hot, no, they will still bask under it and will even burn themselves. You will see them gaping if it is too hot and they still will sit under it trying to thermoregulate. Chameleons need a lot of calcium in their diet, so the protocol which has been successful for many, many years with keepers, when they are babies is Calcium everyday NO d3. D3 with calcium twice monthly and a multi vitamin twice monthly also. You will find all this in the care sheets. As far as the moss, your chameleon may just choose to eat it. It may have nothing to do with shooting its tongue at prey and missing and getting moss in its mouth. Therefore, we recommend not to use it. What is your overall cage temp? And I don't know if you know it or not, but Veilds are plant eaters and that is why you have to be careful what you put in your enclosure.

Hey again Carol- Starting to wonder if you're intentionally being rude or you're just curt without knowing it. So much is lost of communication online. The whole point I think you missed is that they are in temporary tanks because they were not an expected addition. I'm obviously here to learn and get help to learn how to care for them despite what you seem to think, so I'll explain it again.
The only reason they are in the glass is because it's what I had in the house. I wasn't planning on bringing them home, that's why they are in the temp cages while the perm enclosures are built- and again, yes, they will be housed separately.
Since you told me about the d3 issue I've been reading more about their diet and have ordered calcium w/out it, so thank you for that, you don't need to repeat and stress over the d3 dosages anymore. Which multivitamin do you use and recommend? Multi and d3 twice a month, but how many days apart should I do the d3 dosage and the multivitamin?
It's so strange to me that they would sit under the lamp until they burn themselves. I've gone through a few guides and you're the only source that has said anything about them willingly baking themselves to the point of injury. I moved the heat source they have now further away so the basking temp has gone down. The majority of the tanks temp was 77 today when I got home.
Do you have any advise about shedding? How long should a shed ideally take to complete? If there is stuck shed what methods should I use to remove it? Like you said, they are different then my other babies who I would just give a bath or spray down and soak a few times a day to soften the stuck skin. Would using a wet q-tip to rub on trouble spots be okay or too rough for them? I'm not sure how old they are, but they are small so I feel like they are extra EXTRA delicate.. Except when Sage grabbed my bottom lip with her front foot while I was trying to get a good look at the tip of her tail checking it for stuck shed- man her little Hercules grip surprised me! LOL!

 

[Lathis]

Hey again Carol- Starting to wonder if you're intentionally being rude or you're just curt without knowing it. So much is lost of communication online.

It is indeed the communication medium. Carol is great - full of knowledge and very helpful, but yes sometimes text is hard to interpret

 

[bobcochran]

Young Veileds grow really fast, should complete their shed in a day-maybe a couple of tatters linger. Spray misting, as you said helps. As hard as it is to believe, chameleons will sit under the basking light until their skin burns, if the light is too close and too hot the outer chameleon (skin) burns before the inner body is up to operating temperature.

I was in Charleston for the first time last year. What a wonderful city, great history. Out here in the west not so much documented history.

 

[pretty]

It is indeed the communication medium. Carol is great - full of knowledge and very helpful, but yes sometimes text is hard to interpret

She is the only one giving me good info on keeping and caring for these guys. Guides are helpful, but having someone with experience telling you makes it more personal and in my opinion makes the information more retainable, Carol on Chameleon Forums told me vs. I read it on some website. You know?
I hate texting, email, ect because SO much of communication is lost. I'm not 100% that I come across the way I mean to be either and that is even MORE frustrating. Sigh.

Young Veileds grow really fast, should complete their shed in a day-maybe a couple of tatters linger. Spray misting, as you said helps. As hard as it is to believe, chameleons will sit under the basking light until their skin burns, if the light is too close and too hot the outer chameleon (skin) burns before the inner body is up to operating temperature.

I was in Charleston for the first time last year. What a wonderful city, great history. Out here in the west not so much documented history.

Ahh, that makes more sense when you explain it that way about them burning themselves. I guess I've never compared it to cooking- lower temps to cook evenly vs higher temps to crisp the outsides of whatever it is. Never thought I'd compare my babies to dinner LOL!

Love Charleston! There is just so much to wander around and look at, so much to take in!

 

[bobcochran]

Oops. Forgot to say about the shedding process: not to worry about shed tatters unless one is all the way around a foot, leg, or tail, I have seen a stuck shed that goes all the way around an appendage that cuts off the circulation,in which case you have to remove it manually. This only happens on very young babies, first shed or two.

 

[pretty]

When I was checking out Sage who is the shedding girl, I noticed what looks like tiny black spots on her skin and that seems to be what the stuck shed shreds (say that 5 times fast) are stuck to? I did remove a bit from the tip of her tail which is why I had her in my face trying to see what I was doing when she pinched my lip. I'm now curious if both of them have already had trouble with their past sheds, Sage's skin looked like she was about to shed when I brought her home but still looks very dry and grey even though she is nearing the end of one.

On one hand I feel like I saved them from their crappy conditions all though I could be doing a few things different, but at the same time I hate that I've contributed to a lousy breeders business by purchasing them.

 

[carol5208]

Hey again Carol- Starting to wonder if you're intentionally being rude or you're just curt without knowing it. So much is lost of communication online. The whole point I think you missed is that they are in temporary tanks because they were not an expected addition. I'm obviously here to learn and get help to learn how to care for them despite what you seem to think, so I'll explain it again.
The only reason they are in the glass is because it's what I had in the house. I wasn't planning on bringing them home, that's why they are in the temp cages while the perm enclosures are built- and again, yes, they will be housed separately.
Since you told me about the d3 issue I've been reading more about their diet and have ordered calcium w/out it, so thank you for that, you don't need to repeat and stress over the d3 dosages anymore. Which multivitamin do you use and recommend? Multi and d3 twice a month, but how many days apart should I do the d3 dosage and the multivitamin?
It's so strange to me that they would sit under the lamp until they burn themselves. I've gone through a few guides and you're the only source that has said anything about them willingly baking themselves to the point of injury. I moved the heat source they have now further away so the basking temp has gone down. The majority of the tanks temp was 77 today when I got home.
Do you have any advise about shedding? How long should a shed ideally take to complete? If there is stuck shed what methods should I use to remove it? Like you said, they are different then my other babies who I would just give a bath or spray down and soak a few times a day to soften the stuck skin. Would using a wet q-tip to rub on trouble spots be okay or too rough for them? I'm not sure how old they are, but they are small so I feel like they are extra EXTRA delicate.. Except when Sage grabbed my bottom lip with her front foot while I was trying to get a good look at the tip of her tail checking it for stuck shed- man her little Hercules grip surprised me! LOL!

Sorry. Was not trying to be rude, but it just seemed that everything I told you to do, you would question or contradict. I directed you to the Care Sheets as I figured they basically were saying the same thing I was, so you could follow the info or go on your own. Anyways, no hard feelings and bottom line we all want the best for your two new little babies. There are a lot of great people on here always willing to help out, so you have come to the right place. We all love chameleons!!! Some of us are a little crazy, but we are passionate about these fabulous creatures!