New Cham Owner, need Help

[lostinbrasil]

Hello, I work at a local pet store, and we just received some wild caught Fischer's in. I saw them and instantly fell in love. I had never owned a cham before, so I went over everything with my Reptile Manager before I made my purchase. Their were two cham's in the same Exoterra enclosure, both are supposed to be around 6 weeks old. By the look of their horns one was a male and one was a female. My husband and I took the female with us. The day after the male seemed to be dehydrated and sick; he turned a very light color, cold to the touch, and sunken eyes. He also started to shed a ton. At work we were giving him showers, and put him under direct light/heat. He did not seem to get any better, so the manager asked that I bring him home and put him with her in her new home. Hoping he would begin to get better.

We have a waterfall, and he immediately began to drink from it, and I have not seen her drink from it at all. I am also misting three to four times a day. I am feeding gut loaded (with calcium) crickets, that I am also dusting with Chameleon dust.

I purchased a 24x18x24 glass enclosure, which is quite larger than what they had at the store. I know there is a lot of controversy about mesh vs. glass, however, that is all the store uses and sells- and it is what everyone who works there and has cham's uses. To help with the fighting themselves , I put up some backgrounds on the sides (although they have tried to climb the background- but have stopped trying to fight themselves) They have a medium glow light with a 75 watt bulb. Please let me know what I may have missed to help you help me.

I have been reading online non stop since I made my purchase, and I have lots of questions.

-Since they were transported together, and housed together, is it ok they are together now? Lucy(mine) is hiding, and Bruno (store's) is out in the open and staring at me as we speak. Is she hiding because she is mad/scared? It is just her nature?

-What else can I/we do to help Bruno begin to feel better?

-Do I need to get a mesh tank, or will the glass one suffice, until they are larger?

-Please give me guidance, as I am already in love with these little guys, and I will be devastated if I am doing something wrong, or one of them dies. Also, is there a Fischer's online site somewhere that I could be directed too.

Please see the photos, let me know if I need to take some different ones, etc.

Thank you ahead of time.

Their Home:

Lucy:

Lucy:

Bruno:

Bruno:

 

[Vegas Chad]

Oh boy... You will need to make alot of changes... Alot of people will chim in here and type out what you will need to do. However if you so desire feel free to call me and we can talk correct cham set up, I find the phone much more easy... - Chad

 

[Justin Carl]

Hello, I work at a local pet store, and we just received some wild caught Fischer's in. I saw them and instantly fell in love. I had never owned a cham before, so I went over everything with my Reptile Manager before I made my purchase. Their were two cham's in the same Exoterra enclosure, both are supposed to be around 6 weeks old. By the look of their horns one was a male and one was a female. My husband and I took the female with us. The day after the male seemed to be dehydrated and sick; he turned a very light color, cold to the touch, and sunken eyes. He also started to shed a ton. At work we were giving him showers, and put him under direct light/heat. He did not seem to get any better, so the manager asked that I bring him home and put him with her in her new home. Hoping he would begin to get better.

We have a waterfall, and he immediately began to drink from it, and I have not seen her drink from it at all. I am also misting three to four times a day. I am feeding gut loaded (with calcium) crickets, that I am also dusting with Chameleon dust. i would get rid of the waterfall, and buy/make a dripper. chameleons dont like standing water. it also is a haven for bacteria.

I purchased a 24x18x24 glass enclosure, which is quite larger than what they had at the store. I know there is a lot of controversary about mesh vs. glass, however, that is all the store uses and sells- and it is what everyone who works there and has cham's uses. To help with the fighting themselves , I put up some backgrounds on the sides (although they have tried to climb the background- but have stopped trying to fight themselves) They have a medium glow light with a 75 watt bulb

b. Please let me know what I may have missed to help you help me. no glass cages, these cause URI/ upper resp. infection, the glass also helps in aiding the growth of bacteria. the reflecion of themselves also can induce stress.

I have been reading online non stop since I made my purchase, and I have lots of questions.

-Since they were transported together, and housed together, is it ok they are together now? Lucy(mine) is hiding, and Bruno (store's) is out in the open and staring at me as we speak. Is she hiding because she is mad/scared? It is just her nature? chameleons cant be kept together! very territorial, and will fight to the death when older.

-What else can I/we do to help Bruno begin to feel better? seperate them and have a constant supply of water(drip/mist)

-Do I need to get a mesh tank, or will the glass one suffice, until they are larger? no glass

-Please give me guidance, as I am already in love with these little guys, and I will be devastated if I am doing something wrong, or one of them dies. Also, is there a Fischer's online site somewhere that I could be directed too. this site is great for everything.
Please see the photos, let me know if I need to take some different ones, etc.

Thank you ahead of time.

Their Home:

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/lostinbrasil/PC180040.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Lucy:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/lostinbrasil/PC180032.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Lucy:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/lostinbrasil/PC170011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Bruno:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/lostinbrasil/PC180029.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Bruno:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/lostinbrasil/PC180031.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

couple of questions for you... what kind of UV light are you using? are you supplement/dusting your feeders?

 

[Ashley]

I am not an expert on fischers but i am pretty sure you need a uvb light on them, preferably a Reptisun 5.0 tube uvb. Make sure you do not get the compact tops they have been known to cause photo kerato conjunctivitis.


What do you mean by chameleon dust?

 

[lostinbrasil]

http://www.blagdonreptilehouse.co.uk/chameleon-dust-icb-from-t-rex_373.htm

 

[Justin Carl]

i use that along with flukers calcium with D3 and repcal calcium w/o d3 and repcal herptivite.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I hope you took V.Chad up on his offer and called him.
He's a good guy and can help you get your situation figured out.
I hate to say this, but I bet I'm right, the folks at work don't know what they're talking about.

-Brad

 

[kinyonga]

I have kept fischer's chameleons a few times over the years. They are a neat chameleon!

You said..."Their were two cham's in the same Exoterra enclosure, both are supposed to be around 6 weeks old"...they look much older than 6 weeks.

You said..."The day after the male seemed to be dehydrated and sick; he turned a very light color, cold to the touch, and sunken eyes. He also started to shed a ton. At work we were giving him showers, and put him under direct light/heat. He did not seem to get any better, so the manager asked that I bring him home and put him with her in her new home. Hoping he would begin to get better"...I would separate them since the one seems to not be doing well.

You said..."We have a waterfall, and he immediately began to drink from it, and I have not seen her drink from it at all"...its good that he drank from the waterfall....but I don't recommend waterfalls because they are too hard to keep clean.

You said..."I am also misting three to four times a day"...that's good! Fischer's seem to have high water requirements so its important to get them to drink.

You said..."I am feeding gut loaded (with calcium) crickets, that I am also dusting with Chameleon dust"...I'm not familiar with Chameleon dust....I gutload my crickets with a wide variety of greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrot, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, etc.). I use a phosphorous-free calcium powder to dust at most feedings the insects with before feeding them to the chameleons.

I use a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source of vitamin A twice a month. Beta carotene won't build up in the system but preformed vitamin A can. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

Because my chameleons don't get direct sunlight as a rule, I also dust lightly twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can also build up in the system so don't overdo it.

Montane chameleons like the fischers can develop edema of the gular pouch if they get too much of certain vitamins and minerals.

You said..."I purchased a 24x18x24 glass enclosure, which is quite larger than what they had at the store. I know there is a lot of controversary about mesh vs. glass, however, that is all the store uses and sells- and it is what everyone who works there and has cham's uses"...I have used cages similar to them for fischers and they do fine. I have even used aquariums without a problem. You need to ensure that there is no water build up on the floor though. (In the dark ages when I kept my first fischers there were no mesh cages available at all...so I used tanks.

You said..."To help with the fighting themselves , I put up some backgrounds on the sides (although they have tried to climb the background- but have stopped trying to fight themselves)"...if they are fighting its quite possible that the female is gravid. Its important to provide a suitable place for her to dig in the cage to show you whether she needs to lay eggs or not.

What brand UVB light are you using? Is it a compact or tube light?

You said..."They have a medium glow light with a 75 watt bulb"...I don't know what that is. Do you have a UVB and a basking light? Although they don't need temperatures as high as veileds have they still need to be able to warm up to digest their food properly.

Since they are WC's they could be carrying parasites so it might be wise to have a fecal done.

You said..."Lucy(mine) is hiding, and Bruno (store's) is out in the open and staring at me as we speak. Is she hiding because she is mad/scared? It is just her nature?"...she may be hiding because she is gravid. Does she sway back and forth, hiss, gape when she is near the male?

What else can I/we do to help Bruno begin to feel better?

You said..."Please give me guidance, as I am already in love with these little guys, and I will be devastated if I am doing something wrong, or one of them dies"...I suggested separating them (one per cage and with a visual barrier between them) because if one is sick the other might catch whatever is wrong with the sick one...but also the presence of the female may be stressing the male and lowering his immune system. Even when you separate them I would leave the male alone as much as possible for a few days. Fischers are a funny lot and some of them just don't adjust to captivity and die. I hope this one is not one of them.

If the male doesn't improve in a couple of days or shows signs of going down hill I would take it to the vets.

There is not tons of information on this site...but here's one site with some information...
http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/bfischeri.html
Hope this helps!
If you have more questions just ask!

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Ditto Kinyonga!
Wow K....that's a lot of typing. Kudos for answering her questions so completely!
I put the whole thing off on a phone call to Chad.
-Brad

 

[Vegas Chad]

I figure a call full of questions would take me just as long as typing out a long mail. Plus I think talking is better, you can stress points better like the need for UV light and the proper dust and all that good stuff… Then I will point to sites like yours where you are able to read good info and fine tune husbandry. The phone call offers seem to be working, lots of questions answered thus far and follow up calls to tell me the chams are doing great! Just doing my part to help

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Oh chad....the sacrifices you make!


-Brad

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Actually ...it's really awesome of you.
I have had a couple of people call me ...but I have to say I really deliberated before giving them my phone # and then only in a pm.
I'm very cautious about opening that can of worms...
I think for the most part I'm going to work on my info site...work here on the forums... and give out Chad's phone #.

-Brad

 

[lostinbrasil]

Bulb: http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=332
Lamp: http://www.petco.com/product/12467/Exo-Terra-Glow-Light-Porcelain-Clamp-Lamp-and-Glow-Reflector.aspx
This is their only source of heat/light, do I need to add some more/another light? If so, what kind?

Bottom of Cage: http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1683 is this ok, or do I need to switch to moss? I was told Moss was a lot harder to keep clean. What should I use to clean, how often?

Crickets: When I leave the store, I am giving them: http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1060, and while in their cricket habitat they have: http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1754 and http://www.blagdonreptilehouse.co.uk...-t-rex_373.htm

I will return the waterfall, and get a dripper? Are they easy to make, is there a link to instructions? Do you suggest I just buy one?

Bruno is going back to the store with me today, and I will make sure no one touches him.

I do not think Lucy is gravid, because she would only paw at her reflection, not really fight it, and she does not seem to mind Bruno, she used him as a step yesterday- walked right over top of him. But she has not come out as much since he has been here.

You all have already eased my mind on a lot of things, and I am going to look into ordering a mesh cage at work today.

 

[dodolah]

Actually ...it's really awesome of you.
I have had a couple of people call me ...but I have to say I really deliberated before giving them my phone # and then only in a pm.
I'm very cautious about opening that can of worms...
I think for the most part I'm going to work on my info site...work here on the forums... and give out Chad's phone #.

-Brad

heyyyyy!

 

[Vegas Chad]

HaHa... I really dont mind, I work for the phone company so worst comes to worst I can block incoming calls at times of the day. If you want, feel free to shoot me a PM and ill give you my # to post if you so desire.

 

[Marc10edora]

I don't use any reptile carpet or substrate at all. It is way too hard to keep it clean. I made that mistake in the beginning. The carpet gets soaked from the dripper and my chams nails kept getting stuck in it. The substrate made a huge muddy mess and having it constantly wet could build up bacteria faster.

 

[kinyonga]

Brad said..."Wow K....that's a lot of typing. Kudos for answering her questions so completely!"...thanks for the compliment Brad! Sometimes I wonder if I should type so much!