New Here and to Chameleons

Pals id

New Member
Hello,

I have been keeping other reptiles for a while now, but have recently decided to delve into the challenge of keeping a panther chameleon. I did a lot of research and carefully weighed the pros and cons of different set ups and equipment. I have had the enclosure up and going for almost a week now and have tweaked everything to what I believe is a good. My little guy arrived today after being delayed by FedEx. The package got held up in Indianapolis overnight, so he was in the shipping box for a day longer than expected. He was packaged well with a heat pack (it's cold here) and arrived in good health. He is only about 4 months old and I can't wait until he colors up. Anyway, I could tell the breeder cares deeply about his animals and has been doing it for many, many years. However, once I told him how everything is set up, he was very concerned and stated that it was all wrong. I spent extra money and got the starter kit he recommended. I would just like honest feedback on what I should incorporate from the new items and what will work with what I already have. The new kit comes with a screen cage, branches, lighting, vitamin/mineral supplements, and a few other things. Worst case scenario, I will have to redo the whole setup and the best case scenario is that I will have some extra equipment and a nice outdoor screen cage for the summer months.

I live in Michigan and the house is really dry over the winter and I also run a dehumidifier over the summer with the central air, so the humidity inside the house is rarely over 50% and drops down into the 20% range in the winter. Anyway, here is a picture of my current setup with description of what i did.



I started with the medium extra high terrarium by Exo Terra that measures 24" wide, 18" deep, and 36" high. I used a mist king misting system with two spray nozzles in the top front corners and mist 3 times a day for 1.5 minutes per misting while the lights are on. I put a layer of clay pebbles on the bottom, then a plastic screen, and then live plants in organic potting soil, and on top of this is lava rock. I also seeded this with springtails to control any mold or bacteria within the substrate. I incorporated bamboo branches, and vines to create climbing and basking areas from the bottom to the top of the enclosure. I am also using an Exo Terra 50w Sunray fixture and bulb which gives him an 85-90 degree basking spot on the upper branch and provides heat, light, UVA, and UVB. Outside the basking spot, the temps are in the mid 70s during the day. The airflow seems great in this terrarium and humidity has stayed great with the live plants and misting. Everything is soaked after the misting and dries before the next one kicks on. My light is set to go on at 9:00am and off at 9:00pm and the 1.5 minute mist turns on at 10:00am, 3:00pm, and 8:00pm. I will also give the plants a little extra once or twice a week to ensure the roots are getting enough water.

Once I put the little guy into this today, he basked for about an hour, ate a mealworm, then some crickets from the cricket cup I made, drank some water droplets, and ate more crickets! Now he is basking again after checking out the full enclosure. I plan to dust the crickets once week with calcium/D3 powder, once a week with just calcium, and once a week (while young) with a multivitamin. I will then back off on the reptile multivitamins as he grows to about twice a month while maintaining the calcium and calcium with D3 dusting. Here is the little guy in his dark color soaking up some rays:



Let me know if you would change anything about the enclosure or my planned husbandry practices. Thank you for any and all honest feedback.
 
So let's make sure I have this straight...the pics are showing the setup that has incorporated the changes your breeder recommended, right? I think he's going to want a bit more visual cover in the front of the setup so he feels he can sit out of view.

Many keepers do not like to use substrate due to concerns over molds, bacteria buildup and ingestion risks. That may have been one of the breeder's concerns. The substrate layers you have do reduce the "living space" for the cham.

Your dusting schedule is a bit off: He should be getting feeders lightly dusted with plain calcium (no added vit D3) daily, dusted with calcium with added D3 twice a month, and a herp multivitamin twice a month. What are you gutloading your insects with?
 
What's the plan to keep the floor from becoming a place for nasties to grow on dead feeders, poops, etc?

A lot of people, myself included, have embraced the idea of a bare clean floor approach, where the floor is nothing more than a place for a drain.

This is a diagram I come back to:
cage3.jpg

Third panel from https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/enclosures/
A - One UVB light and one basking light - All light bulbs of any kind should be placed on top of the cage pointing downwards.
B - A dripper is placed on the top of the cage so it drips onto the leaves in the cage for drinking.
C - Automatic Misting System (optional)
D - One thermometer should be placed at the same level as the branch your chameleon basks from to monitor the hottest point.
E - The hygrometer is placed anywhere in the cage to measure humidity.
F - Feeding cup (optional)
G - Egg laying bin containing appropriate substrate. (females only)
H - Another thermometer should be placed in the lower portion of the cage to monitor the change in the temperature gradient.
I - No substrate - Substrate (mulch, dirt, sand, etc.) should not be used in chameleon’s cages. Substrates can actually be harmful by allowing bacteria and mold to grow; they can also cause impactions when accidentally ingested. Only females need a laying bin containing substrate.

Good info here (I didn't feel obliged to use the Great Stuff foam in my build though):
http://dragonstrand.com/principles-chameleon-cage-setup/

You might want to set up more horizontal levels for your guy, he may want to go higher too (but keep him from getting too close to the basking light).
 
So let's make sure I have this straight...the pics are showing the setup that has incorporated the changes your breeder recommended, right? I think he's going to want a bit more visual cover in the front of the setup so he feels he can sit out of view.

Many keepers do not like to use substrate due to concerns over molds, bacteria buildup and ingestion risks. That may have been one of the breeder's concerns. The substrate layers you have do reduce the "living space" for the cham.

Your dusting schedule is a bit off: He should be getting feeders lightly dusted with plain calcium (no added vit D3) daily, dusted with calcium with added D3 twice a month, and a herp multivitamin twice a month. What are you gutloading your insects with?

Thank you for your suggestions. I will definitely adjust my calcium and vitamin supplementation accordingly and perhaps add more cover/horizontal branches. The setup is basically how I had it. The breeder hated the idea of any enclosure made of glass and said the metal halide light can make chameleons blind, and also hated anything made in China, which is anything Exo Terra...lol. He then added that Mistking pumps will burn out fast and that the ones he sells are better. This leads me to believe that perhaps he wants to make a sale? Or maybe he is just distrustful of newer equipment than was available 30 years ago. What are your thoughts? I don't think the chameleon will ingest any of the lava rock (I hope) and they seem about the right size rocks as I have seen people use on top of their potted plants here. Dart frog people use springtails in their vivs to reduce the amount of mold and/or bacteria and they are apparently pretty effective. I seeded the substrate with them and hope they thrive and multiply taking care of the concerns over mold and bacterial growth. For my feeder insects, I currently use an oatmeal substrate for the bottom and then for the crickets I use Flukers cricket diet plus Cricket Quencher fortified with calcium and occasionally some bits of carrots. For the mealworms, I throw some baby carrots on top of the oatmeal and also put in a little cricket quencher fortified with calcium in for them. I just ordered some silkworms too to vary the diet.

What's the plan to keep the floor from becoming a place for nasties to grow on dead feeders, poops, etc?

A lot of people, myself included, have embraced the idea of a bare clean floor approach, where the floor is nothing more than a place for a drain.

This is a diagram I come back to:
cage3.jpg

Third panel from https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/enclosures/
A - One UVB light and one basking light - All light bulbs of any kind should be placed on top of the cage pointing downwards.
B - A dripper is placed on the top of the cage so it drips onto the leaves in the cage for drinking.
C - Automatic Misting System (optional)
D - One thermometer should be placed at the same level as the branch your chameleon basks from to monitor the hottest point.
E - The hygrometer is placed anywhere in the cage to measure humidity.
F - Feeding cup (optional)
G - Egg laying bin containing appropriate substrate. (females only)
H - Another thermometer should be placed in the lower portion of the cage to monitor the change in the temperature gradient.
I - No substrate - Substrate (mulch, dirt, sand, etc.) should not be used in chameleon’s cages. Substrates can actually be harmful by allowing bacteria and mold to grow; they can also cause impactions when accidentally ingested. Only females need a laying bin containing substrate.

Good info here (I didn't feel obliged to use the Great Stuff foam in my build though):
http://dragonstrand.com/principles-chameleon-cage-setup/

You might want to set up more horizontal levels for your guy, he may want to go higher too (but keep him from getting too close to the basking light).

See above about keeping the substrate free of mold and bacteria with springtails. Thanks for all the recommendations.
 
Also, in addition to the above responses, I took the temperature of this little guy while he was basking today with an infrared temp gun. He registered a high temp of around 91-92 F on the animal itself. This leads me to believe that the top basking area is about the right height and the light is a good distance from the top of the screen. According to the UV light chart, he should be getting excellent UVA and UVB exposure at this level too. Is this model of light safe in your opinion? It's the 50w Exo Terra Sunray.

Any other recommendations or responses to the information already received or given would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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