New Sambava baby! Male or female?

[Lingling]

Just got my first panther at the NARBC in Tinley Park this weekend

He's a little sambava, only about a month old. He seems to be adjusting well. I've seen him eat and drink, and he'll climb right onto my hand if I put it in his cage. Much more friendly than my veiled! He's already showing some faint blues and reds, even at such a young age. This may not be anything special, but I sure was suprised by how pretty he already is. I was told he's a male (most likely, hard to sex something so young). I've seen his vertical bands turn really dark, almost black, with the rest of his body a dark grey colour. That, along with the blues, makes me think he's a male, but I've seen him with the light peach color of the females also. He's dark half the time and light half the time. Here's a link to a couple pics of him, just wondering what you guys thought - boy or girl? (I wasnt' sure how to upload directly to my post, hope you guys can follow the link).

 

[Lingling]

There we go... found out how to upload and took out the link.

 

[Sang]

with out a better angle of the tail/vent area.

for now i am going to say female...

*on closer inspection, the first picture does appear to have what could be a small hemipenal buldge*

 

[Eltortu]

Hey, what kind is your setup?...I think you got a girl...or maybe a boy?...hmmm...

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

*on closer inspection, the first picture does appear to have what could be a small hemipenal buldge*

I say male for this same reason.

 

[Lingling]

Hey, what kind is your setup?

Until I get a new screen cage for him (which will be soon, by the end of the week or so), he's in a 40 gallon terrarium that my veiled lived in for the last few months. I just moved him into a 24x24x48 screen cage.



So what are the things to look for when determining sex on panthers? Of course the hemipenal bulge, but what about colors? I know he/she is young, but what exactly should I be looking for? (At least I'm not looking for tarsal spurs anymore... )

 

[Ace]

i think male ,cuz i saw a u bar, but so far im always wrong, lets hope im right this time

 

[Lingling]

i think male ,cuz i saw a u bar, but so far im always wrong, lets hope im right this time

Sorry for my ignorance, but what's a "u bar"? I hope you're right also, because I really wanted a male! I wouldn't have spent the money on a female. But whatever it turns out to be, he/she is adorable, and I'm as in love with this little cham as anyone could possibly be. If it turns out to be a female, I'll just have to keep looking for a male.

 

[morpheon]

The U bar that Ace is talking about is the brown bar that you can see in the middle of his body. It is quite easy to see in your first picture. Usually, U bars indicate chameleons living in the east of Madagascar, while the Y bars mean the rest of Madagascar and a few islands around it.

Even if the U bar is not a sign of sex, it indicates that your chameleon have good chances of being a sambava. Of course, since your chameleon is very young, it is impossible to say if it's a sambava or not.

On a side note, i believe it is a male as well.

 

[Lingling]

Thanks Morpheon, I think I see what you guys are talking about. That leads to one more question - I know he's young, but if his parents were sambavas, wouldn't he be as well? When you say it's "impossible to say if it's a sambava or not" are you just saying based on his color, or in general?

 

[pssh]

Based on color. If the parents were 'sambavas' then he is a 'Sambava.' but there is no 100% way to be sure (even if he had his colors) unless you went and hand picked his parents right from Sambava Madagascar. Sooooo, I would just trust the breeder.

Any pictures of the parents?

 

[carol5208]

I have a Sambava and he has a "W" bar instead of a "U". Females usually have more peachy colors, the males are mostly green with dark blue or kinda burgandy bars at ages and when they fire up they are have yellows and oranges with red bars.

 

[pssh]

Babies certainly are not those colors! The main way to tell if a baby is male or female is the hemipenal bulge. Lesser ways include the color and lateral line.

 

[carol5208]

Babies certainly are not those colors! The main way to tell if a baby is male or female is the hemipenal bulge. Lesser ways include the color and lateral line.

I didn't say babies!!! just going by what mine has looked like and the coloration I discussed with the breeder.

 

[shanksfaml]

Nice looking young man you have there, cool colors already. Enjoy.

 

[morpheon]

Thanks Morpheon, I think I see what you guys are talking about. That leads to one more question - I know he's young, but if his parents were sambavas, wouldn't he be as well? When you say it's "impossible to say if it's a sambava or not" are you just saying based on his color, or in general?

When i say that it's impossible to say if it's a sambava or not, i mean that without knowing the parents it's impossible to be sure at the moment. The thing is some breeders may lie about the locality and even sometimes about the species. Obviously, i don't know who is your chameleon's original breeder, so i can not judge him/her. Sometimes, these breeders don't lie on purpose; they just don't know or aren't skilled enough yet, while others may try to scam you.

Even then, it's very hard to confirm a female's locality (could you say for sure that a female is from Sambava and not Diego Suarez, for example??) -- I couldn't! The bottom line is there is nothing sure, ever.

Also, the differences and way to tell an adult's locality is not only based on the colors, but on a few other factors as well.

@Carol: Even if your chameleon has a " W " it doesn't mean anything. When i said "Usually, U bars indicate chameleons living in the east of Madagascar", the word "usually" was very important. A good example is chameleons with an heart-shaped bar and not a U or Y... Therefore, once again, you can never be 100% sure.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Possibly a male but your pics really arent showing any conclusive sex. First pic looks like it could be showing a bulge but that tail is very slender looking and that just screams girl.

 

[carol5208]

When i say that it's impossible to say if it's a sambava or not, i mean that without knowing the parents it's impossible to be sure at the moment. The thing is some breeders may lie about the locality and even sometimes about the species. Obviously, i don't know who is your chameleon's original breeder, so i can not judge him/her. Sometimes, these breeders don't lie on purpose; they just don't know or aren't skilled enough yet, while others may try to scam you.

Even then, it's very hard to confirm a female's locality (could you say for sure that a female is from Sambava and not Diego Suarez, for example??) -- I couldn't! The bottom line is there is nothing sure, ever.

Also, the differences and way to tell an adult's locality is not only based on the colors, but on a few other factors as well.

@Carol: Even if your chameleon has a " W " it doesn't mean anything. When i said "Usually, U bars indicate chameleons living in the east of Madagascar", the word "usually" was very important. A good example is chameleons with an heart-shaped bar and not a U or Y... Therefore, once again, you can never be 100% sure.

As far as I know my chameleon is a Sambava! I bought him from Kammerflage Kreations and I am sure they know who the parents are!

 

[jessica]

Side profile pictures of the base of the tail will help members decide the sex a lot better lol

Some say girl, some say boy, I say cute

 

[Ace]

Hello again,

i only said male partly by guess, and also that i havent really seen many females with "u-bars" maybe with the y-bars, but to me the males seem to have early distinguishable barring, but i do not claim this to be true since my lack of experience of sexing panthers....still think its a boy though,