Not happy with my baby veiled

jajeanpierre

Chameleon Enthusiast
Female veiled, unknown age, 33grams, 3.75 inches long. First weight 26g. Has not gained for four days after gaining a gram a day over the previous week.

Bought November 14 from Petsmart.

Housed in a glass terrarium, 16" x 16" x 24"h, screen top, one side has vertical screen 4"w x 16"h. Cage furnished with bonsai ficus (live), live bamboo and bendy fake vines and some wooden branches. No substrate, but I did have some shredded coconut husk in for a few days until I learned it was not a good idea. (Yes, I will be getting a bigger screened cage.)

She is fed mostly crickets, which have access to ******s Orange and dark leafy greens. She has been given a few mealworms. Up until this past weekend, she ate only small crickets, but I was not able to find any small ones in the local stores so gave her medium crickets which she devoured. Up until yesterday, her appetite was excellent except for the first few days after I bought her. I dust with plain calcium, no phosporus, no Vitamin D3.

At first, I couldn't find any bowel movements, then she had a couple of big ones over the weekend, missed a day and had a bowel movement yesterday. Urates are white. I do not believe she ate yesterday or today--I just found one of the crickets from yesterday sitting on her head.

I spray her cage (and her which she generally hates) several times a day. Humidity rates fluctuate based on when I sprayed the cage. I leave lots of droplets on the glass and the leaves.

Temps are good I think. I just used an infrared temp gun and her skin temp was 86F when she was basking under a light. The closest she can get to any light is about 3" unless she were to hang upside down off the screen. I use four lights during the day, all sitting on but not touching the top screen. At night, all heat and lights are off. Temps drop to mid to low 60s.
Reptisun 5.0 UVB (Zoo Med)
Daylight Blue 60w (Zoo Med)
50w and 75w Infrared Spot Bulbs (All Living Things)

My concerns are that she seems a bit off. She isn't eating. She is the same morning weight as she was Saturday after gaining a gram a day for a week. I worry that she might be losing a bit of weight. It has dropped from an all-time high of 36g Sunday, which might have been a false high since she had gorged on crickets the day before but hadn't had the huge bowel movement she did after she was weighed.

Here's what I did differently: On Sunday I had her outside in a small screen cage to give her natural sun. Outside temps were about 80. She was NOT happy in that cage. She had a strawberry plant to hide in and plants around her so she wasn't exposed. After about an hour, I put her on a hibiscus beside her cage, which she really likes and opened the window so she could get some direct sun.

So, bottom line, I suspect I stressed her a lot on Sunday.

Is what I am seeing indicative of her being stressed or am I dealing with some other health issue?

I took a few pictures of her this morning but I can't seem to load them onto the web site. Once I find out how to put them on, I'll post them.

Thanks for any advice or guidance.
 
Hopefully, I managed to attach some pictures of her this morning. If it worked, she's sitting on the scale getting weighed. She is not at all happy about being there. I've put a tape measure in front of her to give you a size reference. Any idea of her age? She's all puffed up because she is not happy. I don't know if it shows up, but her rectum protrudes a tiny bit--not prolapsed by any means, but not quite normal.

Her color today in the cage is darker and pinker than normal. The color in the pictures is her normal not happy about being there color.

Did I just over stress her Sunday? What do I do to fix it? Should I increase the night temps until she is back to normal?

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Welcome to the forums and congrats on that pretty little girl. I would guess she is around 3 months old. I think she might be to hot with all those lights and in a glass enclosure. Also, if their food is to big they can't or want eat it. This is how I have had success keeping my veiled over the years.
General care:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
Female care: http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

Since you have a female you will also need a laying bin in her enclosure in the next couple of months so I'm attaching some info for egg laying and the laying bin too.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/
 
Sorry, I uploaded the wrong picture, a blurry one.

I've tried repeatedly to upload the one I want, that shows her eyes almost head on but the upload always fails. I gave up.

I don't think she is too hot. I have two thermometers set up near the top and they register in the 70s. If anything, I think she needs more heat.

She ate the same-sized crickets on Friday and Saturday like a little piggie.

I'm really worried about her.
 
I've tried repeatedly to upload the one I want, that shows her eyes almost head on but the upload always fails. I gave up.

If you want to email it to me, I will post it for you. [email protected]

I don't keep Veileds so I'll let the others chime in there on specific things but I will touch on a few things. Her vent/rectum is fine, it sometimes looks like that. I agree with Jann in that the Infrared bulbs are unnecessary and may be adding too much heat in the almost all glass enclosure.
 
Im new to veiled care too. I would trust to what Jannb has to say. She has an excellent care guide as she directed you to in a previous post. Im just curious, is there a reason why you don't go with a all screen inclosure to house your veiled? Not sure if thats the issue of why she is stressed but it seems to be a greatly adopted practice of chameleon owners. Good luck with your veiled
 
Thanks ever so much for everyone's comments.

Jannb: I posted two pictures using the attachment icon (first example) but it just failed for the third and fourth pictures I wanted to upload. I have no idea why. I tried everything--even rebooting the computer. I've sent them to Trace as an attachment on an email so hopefully she can post them. If Trace can get them posted, just remember she is puffed up and pale/pink because she HATES to be on that scale getting weighed.

Yes, I have a reptile vet. He's actually an avian vet with a mixed practice. I have parrots and have for years, so have some understanding of some of the biology they share. After all, birds are really dinosaurs, and isn't a dinosaur closely related to a reptile? I'm near San Antonio, Texas. Perhaps you know a really good vet in the area? I'm not at the point she needs to see a vet. She's just a little bit off.

Tomorrow I'll find some small crickets when I drive into town. I'll get rid of all the medium crickets in the cage just in case they are bothering her. I have food for them in the bottom of the cage. It could be that the crickets I put in are just too big although she ate a lot of them Saturday and I think Sunday. She also just might be extra unhappy with her small cage since she was out a lot on the weekend climbing around a big hibiscus plant. Her colors went back to a nice green as soon as I put her on the hibiscus in the sunny window this afternoon. I'm just learning her colors. Her colors today seemed very dark, almost a dusky pink/purple with very distinct dark markings. It just seemed different than the dark in the morning when she is warming up.

Mvad: I bought her at a Pestsmart, does that answer your caging question? Seriously, I had no idea they needed a lot of air flow. Her glass cage has the top screened and one side has a tall screen window in it, 4" x 16" tall. I also am worried about keeping the temps and humidity up in my freezing cold house. My heat is kept at 65F and she is in the coldest room of the house.
 
I think she's a little cutie and just needs the proper care.

You can take a damp q-tip and rub the salts off of her nostrils.
 
Thanks ever so much for everyone's thoughtful comments and links. I think I was just being a very nervous new chameleon owner who didn't recognize what normal looks like in in chameleons in general and this one in particular.

She seems to be out of her funk. I think she stopped eating for two reasons. First, she ended up stressed on Sunday and then she was only offered bigger crickets. She'd eaten the bigger crickets the day before, but I think when coupled with the stress, it was all too much. I think if she had been relaxed, she would have tackled them.

Her colors looked more normal this morning, and by normal I mean what I'm used to seeing her look like. I picked out two meal worms for her while I went to find her some small crickets. I cleaned her cage when I got home and couldn't find many of the bigger crickets, so I suspect she ate a few (along with the meal worms) while I was running errands.

I gave her a bunch of the very small crickets and know she ate at least one. I suspect she ate quite a few. She is much more active today--hunting active, not fretting trying to get out of the cage active. She's currently sunning in the window (no glass, just screen so direct sunlight) on a big hibiscus. She just loves to be on that bush in the sun.

Crisis over.

Thank you.
 
Spoke too soon. New possible crisis.

I has just hit the "submit" button for the above and looked over at the hibiscus plant to find she had crawled down the bare trunk hunting. I saw her shoot out her tongue and eat a big wad of planting soil, probably full of liquid fertilizer which shouldn't be too dangerous.

Yikes!

I had literally just finished reading the article Jnnb recommended that talked about putting river rocks in the pots not five minutes before.

Of course I'm now worried about a blockage. I put her back in her cage and gave her a lot of little crickets which she has been happily hunting down. I figure that lots of food in her gut that she is designed to pass will dilute/help move the garbage she just ate.

She has never gone down the trunk of that bush--it's two feet of bare trunk and there weren't any bugs there to eat that I know of.

I'm going to be extra careful about her hydration. Any other suggestions (other than the river rocks :()?
 
Veileds are notorious for eating stuff. I use organic soil, cover the top in screen and then the large river rocks. Be sure to always use plants from the safe plant list because they are forever eating their plants too. :D
 
All the plants she has access to are safe. I just was shocked that that little tongue whipped out and a big wad of brown dirt went down her throat.

I hope she doesn't get a blocked gut. I'm sure she'll be okay--she's not really tiny.
 
I am having the same problem with my male baby vail. He isn't gaining weight or eating much. I've had him about a month and a half now and he hasn't changed much at all. How do I get him to eat
 
Some chams go for dirt. The first time I saw my boy eat a mouthful I freaked until he pooped; thankfully the next day so I could stop stressing. Don't think of it as a death sentence, will probably be okay and just get it covered ASAP.

Chams will rattle our nerves like no other. You got a good team of experts and long time owners on this forum. I've only had my cham a few months and read as much as I can so I can be as educated as possible. You're definitely in good hands here.

Edit - I see you have a female so at some point she'll need a laybox. Jann has a great blog and fellow veiled keeper. When I'm ready for my second I'm considering a veiled...they look adorable. And your girl is pretty.
 
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