Old cham/ should i put her down?

[chamlover]

About 3 years ago i purchased 3 w/c Nosy Bes from a reptile show. 2 were subadults and 1 female was obviously full grown and i thought gravid. But since i've had her she has NEVER laid eggs, even when i tried mating her with a male. My vet says she is over the age so to speak and if you saw her you would agree. She actually looks really old. That part doesn't bother me, what does, is she seems to be getting weaker and weaker and for the last few months i seem to be picking her up off the bottom of the cage more and more. She's having a very time holding on. She's still eating and drinking ok, but i'm at the point where i'm afraid she's going to get hurt from falling so much. She's been to the vets numerous time and besides saying she's just getting old, he doesn't see anything wrong with her. No mbd, no real problem with holding on it just seems she cant do it for very long. She is one of the sweetest cham i've ever had but i don't want her to be in any pain either. I'm sure if she was in the wild, her time would be up real quick. Am i just prolonging the inevitable and making her suffer at the same time? Her temps and husbandry are all correct so that isn't the problem. Who's had exp with very old chams? Can u give me some feedback. Stupid question, is there ANY kind of blood, or any other kind, of test that can give us a guesstimate of how old she is to make sure that is the problem?

 

[dodolah]

If she does not have any apparent problem besides of old age, I would not consider euthanasia.
However, I would probably modify her enclosure a little bit based on her needs.
Check the link:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-veils-life-dog-14296/

 

[chamlover]

Hi Dodolah,

Yes i had to do that with my melleri for the last couple mos but she wouldn't be happy with that . She's always trying to get up it's just that she doesn't seem to have the strength anymore. I've already tried a hammack, home made of sticks, zip tied together thinking that would work, but no, she has to be on a single stick. I have her in the living room now because i have to watch her so closely. I pick her up or straighten her out, she'll be hanging on but upside down, at least 10-12 times a day. And that's only the times that i see her. Should i just put something soft on the bottom for when she does fall? Or. Do i not give her the choice and remove everthing?

 

[summoner12]

I am not sure if Dave Weldon made a thread about his old veiled, Timid, BUT.... if he did it talks about how he has his cage set up for his 'old age' requirements. Dave Still takes him outside for sun... It is sad to see him, but he doesn't seem uncomfy.

I would have a hard time dealing with an old cham, but at the same time putting a cham down that I have had for a while or had to work with real closely would be very hard for me.

I say make her as comfy as you can.

Oh I did some searching. I couldn't find a thread started by Dave.... But he uses plastic mesh kinda like a hammock in the upper levels of the cage. This keeps the cham up near the UVB and allows the cham to move in and out of the heat lamp. This older cham has mobile issues.... but I believe he is able to still move under his own power when needed.

 

[kinyonga]

I take several wide pieces of bark from a maple tree and put them at a gentle slant like a series of ramps so the chameleon can move up them and still sit near the UVB light. Being that they are wide and rough/rigged the chameleon doesn't have to grip them. (I think part of the problem some of these old ones have is arthritis so they loose the strength in their grip.)

The other alternative is to put her in a long short cage with some of these strips of bark to stand on.

I wouldn't put her down as long as she still seems fine other than the old age.

 

[summoner12]

I take several wide pieces of bark from a maple tree and put them at a gentle slant like a series of ramps so the chameleon can move up them and still sit near the UVB light. Being that they are wide and rough/rigged the chameleon doesn't have to grip them. (I think part of the problem some of these old ones have is arthritis so they loose the strength in their grip.)

The other alternative is to put her in a long short cage with some of these strips of bark to stand on.

I wouldn't put her down as long as she still seems fine other than the old age.

Glucosamine and Condroitin?

 

[jannb]

If she does not have any apparent problem besides of old age, I would not consider euthanasia.
However, I would probably modify her enclosure a little bit based on her needs.
Check the link:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-veils-life-dog-14296/

I agrees with Frans. Just because she's old doesn't mean that she needs to be put down. It just means that she has special needs at this time in her life the same as we will need some day if we live to be old. I just kept my daughter's two oldest chameleons while she went on a two week vacation. Her pet sitter kept everybody else but she was afraid the sitter would not be able to give these two old ones the time and attention that they needed. See my thread about it below.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/christmas-pictures-34484/ Be sure to look at post #12

 

[chamlover]

Thanks for all the tips guys, it would have broken my heart to have to put her down. She is my first old girl and has always been sooo sweet. Of course she could have been very old when i got her 3 years ago and that's why she is soo sweet. lol. Whichever, it's not very often you get a cham that really seems to enjoy hanging out with you on the sofa. Of course she probably was just happy she didn't have to hold onto the branches anymore. Thank you Jann for giving me that thread. It also gave me some insight on what might be to come, although it brought tears to my eyes. My husband builds enclosures too, guess what he is doing this weekend? What is the oldest anyone has known a cham to live? So your daughter just put a bunch of sticks on the bottom of the cage? How on earth did she keep it clean?

 

[jojothefirst]

Not even sure why you are asking this!
If she was knocking at deaths door then I could understand more but since she is just struggling then why are you even considering "prolonging the inevitable"?

Im sure she would rather be as she is than be killed.

 

[jannb]

Thanks for all the tips guys, it would have broken my heart to have to put her down. She is my first old girl and has always been sooo sweet. Of course she could have been very old when i got her 3 years ago and that's why she is soo sweet. lol. Whichever, it's not very often you get a cham that really seems to enjoy hanging out with you on the sofa. Of course she probably was just happy she didn't have to hold onto the branches anymore. Thank you Jann for giving me that thread. It also gave me some insight on what might be to come, although it brought tears to my eyes. My husband builds enclosures too, guess what he is doing this weekend? What is the oldest anyone has known a cham to live? So your daughter just put a bunch of sticks on the bottom of the cage? How on earth did she keep it clean?

The large branches are not right on the bottom of the cage. They are about 4 inches or so up. My husband put a second door at the front bottom that lifts up for cleaning and I cleaned up poop every time I saw it.

Lula my daughter's old female has never laid eggs since she's had her (3 years) she does keep her females cooler and only feeds everyother day.

I have read on here that some chams make it to 7 and 8 years old.

Good luck with your girl.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

If you can afford a smaller enclosure, you could move her to a 16x16x20. Less distance to penetrate UVB and Basking heat into , you could lower the perches and use coco fibre as a substrate that is good for breaking the fall of geriatric chams, if they loose their gripe.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I essentially agree with what's been said.

I had an old male chameleon that sounds a little like your female. I did as the others have done, changed the cage to a more lateral one, with heat on one side and I raised one end of the enclosure (the warm side) two inches higher than the other side so he could thermo regulate (though the difference from one end to the other was less than he had in the vertical set up).
I used more vine and rougher branches placed low, which he could hold onto better, and a couple "ramps" made from bark silicon glued to 2 by 2s and a 2 by 4. I put a mat on the floor of the cage - a plasticy rubbery thing ment to be used as a non-slip mat under stuff. It was washable, easy for him to walk on, safe for toenails, and a bit softer if he should fall (the furthest he could fall would have been about 8 inches).

He ate fine, and I started giving him more of his favourites. The only trouble I had was ensuring he got enough water as I could leave a dripper going long lengths of time like before due to no drainage system in the new lateral enclosure. So I had to hand water without fail morning and afternoon.

He lived, I think happily, this way for over a year. Then he started looking less good. He no longer went a happy sky blue colour for special treat foods. He started to get edema. His grip weakened. And I did eventually have him put him down, because i felt the quality of his life had become poor.
Edit: You know your girl, You'll be the best judge of whehter or not your girl is suffering.

Hope things go well for your cham.

 

[chams1]

I currently have a couple older panther chams - one of my sires is 7.5 years old! - and a couple of male panthers that are just disabled. Luckily, my 7.5 year old still climbs around okay, but he is clearly showing signs of old age but eats and drinks okay so we did not need to adjust his cage. However, for the other one and the disabled guys, we have had to adjust the cages to fit their needs, some of what has already been mentioned. I think that as long as the cham is not clearly suffering, there is no need to euthenize.

 

[smpliprfct]

what vet do you use in NH, i live here to and am looking for one.

 

[Pumpkinface]

my wife and i were just having this conversation about our old veiled. he just started falling a lot last week, but his age has been really showing over the last year. its really hard seeing the once mighty King Orbit as weak, slow, and having trouble eating. he spends his day staring at where winter killed his favorite outdoor plants or staring at the wall behind him. neither of us have the heart to do it until its reeeaaally bad. i'm gonna have to get some of that mesh netting, i was gonna try and make some colth hammocks to fall on to, but now i really like the sound of the ramps and stuff. Orbit hasnt been able to get to his warm up spot without sliding back down. I hope he makes it until his grandkids are born if i make him a new setup. not that he gives a crap about his grandkids >_<

 

[Carlton]

Another option is fish net. Check at import shops or sporting good stores for dip nets etc. Knotted rope net can be cut to fit anywhere you need it to.

 

[jampen]

Foam the bottom of the cage

 

[jojackson]

Best wishes with your senior lizard.