Ongoing pinworm issue

[janjan20]

I’m looking for advice from members that farm their own bugs and get regular fecals. I have had ongoing issues with pinworms since this past winter with all 4 of my chams each varying in parasite load, 3 out of 4 had/have very low counts. Thankfully all the other nasties they had have been treated with no reoccurrence except pinworms. I have since restarted my roach colony (spring time) most of my adults were old and died off.

I’m thinking the roaches are probably carrying the pinworms. I really do not want to cull my colony. I’m thinking I can just set up a new bin with no substrate and just clean the frass regularly but I know the nymphs need a layer when they are young. Any advice or experience with this specific issue is greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

 

[JacksJill]

Unless your colony is eating or has eaten chameleon poop I'm at a loss as to how they could be the source.

 

[jannb]

How are you giving your panacur? My vets have always recommended to give for three days, wait two weeks, give for three more days, wait two weeks and do another fecal.

 

[janjan20]

Unless your colony is eating or has eaten chameleon poop I'm at a loss as to how they could be the source.

They are inside my house so that would not be possible and no where near any other source of fecal matter but their own.

 

[janjan20]

How are you giving your panacur?

They were all treated with strongid. April, Marsh, and Basil only had one round because their counts were so low. Paddy on the other hand had 3 rounds about 2-3 weeks apart (can’t remember exactly). I checked his this past weekend and it was probably a 2+. I talked with the vet today and dropped off another fecal lol.

 

[Beman]

Are you feeding crickets? I stopped feeding crickets 5 years ago when Beman tested positive for pinworms. Have not had a positive fecal test since then.

 

[janjan20]

Are you feeding crickets? I stopped feeding crickets 5 years ago when Beman tested positive for pinworms. Have not had a positive fecal test since then.

No crickets for about 5 yrs and no more store bought bugs. (That’s where the giardia and coccidia came from.) I do feed silkworms but wouldn’t think they are the issue.

 

[JacksJill]

They are inside my house so that would not be possible and no where near any other source of fecal matter but their own.

Pinworms are transmitted by the fecal oral route and do not require a secondary host. I wonder if you just need follow up treatments or a more thorough cleaning to eliminate the eggs from your cage during treatment.

 

[janjan20]

Pinworms are transmitted by the fecal oral route and do not require a secondary host. I wonder if you just need follow up treatments or a more thorough cleaning to eliminate the eggs from your cage during treatment.

Thank you! I clean up as I see the poop. They are all pretty particular about their pooping spots and do go lower in their enclosures. I will circle back with the vet in getting them all treated again.

 

[jannb]

They were all treated with strongid. April, Marsh, and Basil only had one round because their counts were so low. Paddy on the other hand had 3 rounds about 2-3 weeks apart (can’t remember exactly). I checked his this past weekend and it was probably a 2+. I talked with the vet today and dropped off another fecal lol.

I’m not a familiar with strongid. Try panacur, I never had a problem with panacur.

 

[janjan20]

I’m not a familiar with strongid. Try panacur, I never had a problem with panacur.

I will ask for this one! Thank you

 

[DeremensisBlue]

I’m looking for advice from members that farm their own bugs and get regular fecals. I have had ongoing issues with pinworms since this past winter with all 4 of my chams each varying in parasite load, 3 out of 4 had/have very low counts. Thankfully all the other nasties they had have been treated with no reoccurrence except pinworms. I have since restarted my roach colony (spring time) most of my adults were old and died off.

I’m thinking the roaches are probably carrying the pinworms. I really do not want to cull my colony. I’m thinking I can just set up a new bin with no substrate and just clean the frass regularly but I know the nymphs need a layer when they are young. Any advice or experience with this specific issue is greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

Pinworms spread by shedding ova (eggs) in the feces. These eggs get spread by any puddles the feces may encounter at the bottom of the cage and hitch a ride with any feeder insect that may come along. They are easily spread by human hands doing any sort of maintenance on the cage. Your feeder insects are not going to have any pinworms infectious to chameleons unless your hands introduce them. The good news is that this means a major strategy of breaking the lifecycle is, literally, in your hands. Pinworms could also be spread by poop that bounces off a plant or branch on the way down or when the chameleon rubs its cloaca against a branch and then licks it sometime later. There are many possibilities. Pinworms (all of our parasites) have had millions of years to evolve ways of getting back into a chameleon in the vast expanse of the Madagascar forest so a 2x2x4 cage is a cake walk.

This is a pinworm ova and is very common in chameleons. (I actually have a series called "pinworm of the week")

Strongid is a brand name for Pyrantel Pamoate and is commonly used against nematodes like pinworms. It acts on nematodes in a different way then Fenbendazole (Panacur) but has been used for decades. Neither are new. Trust your vet as far as medicine and dosage. I have always used Fenbendazole and there is no harm in asking to try a different drug, but that is not likely to be the thing that needs addressing. With both drugs, it may take more applications to get the infection down no matter what medicine you use. The overwhelmingly, most likely reason why the infection continues is because your chameleon is, somehow, getting fresh ova.

I would suggest you treat all of the chameleons for the sake of eradicating the ability for you to unknowingly transfer ova from one cage to the next. It is true that a minor amount of pinworms is not a health issue to the individual chameleon, but as long as there is a chameleon producing ova somewhere in the house managed by the same hands that work with the other chameleons you will have transmission risk and won't be able to reliably guard against a reinfection. I know we all like to think we are careful in our maintenance, but these are microscopic. They can bounce off of the poop when it hits the floor and be on a cage surface away from the poop that your hand brushes against when you are cleaning up the poop. It is very difficult to know where the ova end up so the best approach is to simply treat all chameleons that show pinworm infection until they all have three negative fecals. And during this time take the cage to quarantine level where the floor is completely clear and no branches or leaves are under any other branches where the chameleon could poop from. Strictly supervise feeding to ensure nothing gets away and takes a walk on the bottom of the cage.

But don't cull your feeder colony. Chameleon-infecting pinworms are not reproducing in with your roaches. Your roaches have it only if the ova are transferred from your chameleon's cage. If you are interested in further reading on parasites and feeders here is a study where someone tried to figure out if parasites came with feeders. But, even beyond scientific studies, the pinworm lifecycle just does not include roaches for anything other than a convenient ride when a roach walks through the puddle that poop touched. But it is good to read what study has been done.
An Evaluation of the Gray Cricket, Acheta domestica, as a Source of Oxyurids for Reptiles

 

[janjan20]

Pinworms spread by shedding ova (eggs) in the feces. These eggs get spread by any puddles the feces may encounter at the bottom of the cage and hitch a ride with any feeder insect that may come along. They are easily spread by human hands doing any sort of maintenance on the cage. Your feeder insects are not going to have any pinworms infectious to chameleons unless your hands introduce them. The good news is that this means a major strategy of breaking the lifecycle is, literally, in your hands. Pinworms could also be spread by poop that bounces off a plant or branch on the way down or when the chameleon rubs its cloaca against a branch and then licks it sometime later. There are many possibilities. Pinworms (all of our parasites) have had millions of years to evolve ways of getting back into a chameleon in the vast expanse of the Madagascar forest so a 2x2x4 cage is a cake walk.

View attachment 357439
This is a pinworm ova and is very common in chameleons. (I actually have a series called "pinworm of the week")

Strongid is a brand name for Pyrantel Pamoate and is commonly used against nematodes like pinworms. It acts on nematodes in a different way then Fenbendazole (Panacur) but has been used for decades. Neither are new. Trust your vet as far as medicine and dosage. I have always used Fenbendazole and there is no harm in asking to try a different drug, but that is not likely to be the thing that needs addressing. With both drugs, it may take more applications to get the infection down no matter what medicine you use. The overwhelmingly, most likely reason why the infection continues is because your chameleon is, somehow, getting fresh ova.

I would suggest you treat all of the chameleons for the sake of eradicating the ability for you to unknowingly transfer ova from one cage to the next. It is true that a minor amount of pinworms is not a health issue to the individual chameleon, but as long as there is a chameleon producing ova somewhere in the house managed by the same hands that work with the other chameleons you will have transmission risk and won't be able to reliably guard against a reinfection. I know we all like to think we are careful in our maintenance, but these are microscopic. They can bounce off of the poop when it hits the floor and be on a cage surface away from the poop that your hand brushes against when you are cleaning up the poop. It is very difficult to know where the ova end up so the best approach is to simply treat all chameleons that show pinworm infection until they all have three negative fecals. And during this time take the cage to quarantine level where the floor is completely clear and no branches or leaves are under any other branches where the chameleon could poop from. Strictly supervise feeding to ensure nothing gets away and takes a walk on the bottom of the cage.

But don't cull your feeder colony. Chameleon-infecting pinworms are not reproducing in with your roaches. Your roaches have it only if the ova are transferred from your chameleon's cage. If you are interested in further reading on parasites and feeders here is a study where someone tried to figure out if parasites came with feeders. But, even beyond scientific studies, the pinworm lifecycle just does not include roaches for anything other than a convenient ride when a roach walks through the puddle that poop touched. But it is good to read what study has been done.
An Evaluation of the Gray Cricket, Acheta domestica, as a Source of Oxyurids for Reptiles

Thank you so much for the detailed post and study! This is a huge help in understanding what I could be doing wrong. I house 3 of the 4 outside so I have been spot cleaning due to the large enclosures. I have dealt with coccidia with 2 so I’ve been able to keep that from reoccurring.
I’m glad to hear I don’t have to get rid of the bugs! I have been wearing gloves recently when handling the bugs. I will re-treat them to cover that part.