Photo Contest

reyesjoshuacruz

reyesjoshuacruz

Established Member
Contest System:
There are currently four phases of the contest: photo submission, entry reduction, member voting, and private ranking by judges.

1. Photo Submission
There is a photo contest category located within the gallery. Submit your contest entries into this category. A minimum of ten eligible photos are required before the photo entry phase ends.

2. Entry Reduction
This phase includes the reduction of entries to a total count of ten photos. Currently, the site administrator chooses, without bias, their favorite ten photos according to specific criteria.

3. Member Voting
All members may vote on their favorite photo. One vote per person per contest.

4. Private Judge Ranking
Private ranking by a few judges appointed by the administrator. This phase helps to prevent different forms of abuse.


I feel like #4 should be explain in much more detail. does anyone else agree?

I would like us to post questions about #4 here to get more info.

Ill start can mods be " judges "?

Also

The Point System
The contest uses a point system for determining contest winners. Each photo entry receives a certain number of points, and the photo with the most points at the end of the contest wins. Photo entries receive points in the member voting and judge ranking phases.

1. Member Voting
First, second, and third place photos receive 5, 3, and 1 points respectively.

2. Judge Ranking
Each judge assigns points to their three favorite photos according to an objective list of criteria. Each judge gives out 3, 2, and 1 points to their top three photos. Currently there will be 2-3 judges per contest.

I fell like judges should not be able to give more than one pt if they even need to exist.

Another question i would like answered is , does #2 above mean each judge can give 9pts total, or 6pts total?
 
I have noticed that two of the judges are regulars and one is a random member. This is why I have felt it has been biased. I dont think there needs to be any extra judges? Why not just let the forum members judge and leave it at that!? I dont get why someone could be in a great position to win by fairness on the forum (well, thats debatable as well) and then a judge comes in and changes it up I still think Pure had a great idea when he said it needs to be anonymous as well.

Each judge gives 3 pictures some extra points. Tey like picture 2 the best, it gets 3m picture 4 gets 2, and picture one gets 1. This is from EACH judge..so one person could get up to 9 points total if each judge pics theirs as #1. This is how I understand it anyways from looking at the results.

So one entry can get up to 9 points extra, another6, and the last 3.
 
I agree that there is no need for the fourth step. Forum members should be the deciding factor. I don't get why the Admin/Brad feels the need for there to be further judgment of the photos by a select few. Some explanation would be nice.

I still think Pure had a great idea when he said it needs to be anonymous as well.
Click to expand...

Considering the response to that suggestion by Brad (none) and rules not being updated this month. I'm guessing my suggestion wasn't what he wants for this contest.

To me, that still potentially makes this a popularity contest, and not much of a photo contest. You won't be seeing any entries by me because of this. Not that I'm peeved about my suggestion not being made a rule. But that I won't compete in any contest that has the potential to be unfare. Not much of a "contest" IMHO as it is now.

just my 2 cents

It's Brad's site to do with as he pleases. I'm grateful for it. So please don't take this as an attack on the site.
 
Ive given up entry as well seeing how the main 2 judges have had beef with me so Im guessing it'll always be biased. Oh well. Not that hard up that I cant afford food for my pygs and frogs.
 
It always amazes me that people complain and whine about something Brad is under no obligation to do at all. Those are the rules Brad has put together, deal with it!

blackbetty said:
Ive given up entry as well seeing how the main 2 judges have had beef with me so Im guessing it'll always be biased.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I went back over the last 8 months and other then Brad, the only judge to do it more then once in that time was Summoner12 who did it in Jan and June. Kinda seems like you're having a hard time accepting that your photos haven't won so you're making stuff up trying to find an excuse:

June '09: Brad, Summoner12, and Fidel
May '09: jannb, Heika, and Brad
April '09: daen, Syn, and Chamgirl
March '09: SoCaliSon, Vegas Chad, and Brad
Feb '09: TRA, Sageghost, and VerteX
Jan '09: royden, summoner12, and Brad
Dec '08: Nicodemayo, Heika, and Brad
Nov '08: No judges

Chris
 
Normally, I try not to get involved with these type post but I am sick of hearing all the whining EVERY single month. I know Brad must hate to hear it every month. I'm surprised he still does the photo contest. Can't we ALL just be thankful for the Forums and the contest????
 
jannb said:
I am sick of hearing all the whining EVERY single month. I know Brad must hate to hear it every month. I'm surprised he still does the photo contest. Can't we ALL just be thankful for the Forums and the contest????
Click to expand...

100% agree
 
I agree as well. I havn't been on here long, but I have been using forums my whole life. I hate to say it, but there is NO escape from drama on these things. Personalities clash and that's life. In the end it is brad's site and he'll do what he wants.

I personally think that the photo contest is unbaised. Good pictures win. People will always vote for a name they know if they can't choose the best photo. Life's not fair. Life is just what happens while you're busy making other plans.

-Andrea
 
I don't think there is much whining here. Granted I've only been reading through the first page of threads in this forum. But for the most part it's thread where people wanted to know why their photo was removed/disappeared. Wanting to know what you did wrong with your photo or not understanding that it has to pass judgment to be entered (a contest in of itself) is not whining. If any thing the only whining is coming from people like you Chris. Your post was 100% a whine. Want some cheese with that?:D

These rules are currently in development and will change. If you have any ideas or suggestions, post them in the contest forum.
Click to expand...

So with that said, we are welcomed to make comments and suggestions. If Brad wants to make a change or not is completely up to him. I could give a s*** one way or the other. But when a suggestion is made such as the one I made and every one is pretty much in agreement yet no changes are made because the admin doesn't agree (yet wouldn't post to disagree), then it's simple. If I don't like it I don't have to participate. That's my call. It's also my call to say why I wont. This my friend is not Whining.

Amanda has had issues with several people on this site. If she feels slighted it is within her right to speak up about it. This again isn't whining. ..If she is wrong then by all means let her know why. But to basically accuse her of being a whiner is wrong. Unless you are one of the people she is having issues with I fail to see how it's really any of your business to come at her like that.
 
Why make things more complicated then it needs to be, the photo contest is not the focal point of what this site is about.

Pure said:
I don't think there is much whining here.
Click to expand...


Everyone who has a complaint (specifically those who didn't win) should asked themselves when is the last time I owned a forum site?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Unless you walked in Brad's shoes, it’s easy to past judgment as to what is ‘whining’ and what is not.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Lot of members here do not fully understand the full spectrum of running a successful forum board.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
The biggest reward for most forum owners is not being monetarily rewarded (in fact, most times they draw from their own pockets and lets not talk about countless hours of their own time running it) but self-satisfaction knowing that he/she created a community who shares the same interest.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Consider the fact all the issues that can and will arise that Brad has to deal with (not just from members, but sponsors & moderators, a lot of politics goes on behind the scene).
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
The most common will be best put in a saying “You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time” -- Abraham Lincoln
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
You realize how quickly that gets old?!?!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Do some members quickly forget what brought them to this site?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
I would like to know how many here did a search for ‘chameleon socials’? Reason I ask that is because I find most of those who whine or complain about little things are those who use this site more for a social gathering (tend to post more quantity, then quality) then what it was truly made for…to be used as a tool to gain a plethora of useful knowledge for the betterment of chameleon keeping and to gain a better understanding.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
When all is said and done, the lasting memory of Chameleon Forums will be something shared, something learned and something taught for our beloved chameleons!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Not for the social current event or who won the past photo contest!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
How many of you here are addicted to CF?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Just imagine if you have that same addition for something else and how much that would cost you?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Do you not realize out of the generosity of Brad, he has given us something we enjoy for free!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Trust me, if he did this for profit, this forum board will have taken a different atmosphere (ex: A WORD FROM OUR SPONSORS…). It would take a lot of sponsor's $$$'s and every other line we type would be filled with ads, to make it tolerable for a site owner to hear each and everyone's complaint!

Needless to say do we really need to trouble him with having to address why everyone who entered did not win and simply save him the trouble and just enjoy the site?

So take it for what it’s worth… take this attitude if you do enter the photo contest and don’t win… “At least it didn’t cost me anything!”

BTW: I once created and owned a successful sponsor free forum site. Walked away and left it to my partners… with all the nit-picking and bickering… life is too short, trying to make everyone happy… and most of all it wasn’t worth it to have others ruin something I enjoyed and freely shared!)

So Brad my heart goes out to you and THANK you!

Also THANK you to the Moderators for your dedication .

And to all those members who share their wealth of information (Quality not Quantity), so I can enjoy keeping chameleons… THANK you!
 
The complaints.....notice I said complains not whining......are not just this month.....it's every single month and personally I don't think being anonymous would help because I know most of the chams in the contest. I can look at the chams and tell you their owner. Just like most members would recognize my Luie and Camille.
 
Chameleonator said:
Why make things more complicated then it needs to be, the photo contest is not the focal point of what this site is about.




Everyone who has a complaint (specifically those who didn't win) should asked themselves when is the last time I owned a forum site?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Unless you walked in Brad's shoes, it’s easy to past judgment as to what is ‘whining’ and what is not.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Lot of members here do not fully understand the full spectrum of running a successful forum board.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
The biggest reward for most forum owners is not being monetarily rewarded (in fact, most times they draw from their own pockets and lets not talk about countless hours of their own time running it) but self-satisfaction knowing that he/she created a community who shares the same interest.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Consider the fact all the issues that can and will arise that Brad has to deal with (not just from members, but sponsors & moderators, a lot of politics goes on behind the scene).
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
The most common will be best put in a saying “You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time” -- Abraham Lincoln
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
You realize how quickly that gets old?!?!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Do some members quickly forget what brought them to this site?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
I would like to know how many here did a search for ‘chameleon socials’? Reason I ask that is because I find most of those who whine or complain about little things are those who use this site more for a social gathering (tend to post more quantity, then quality) then what it was truly made for…to be used as a tool to gain a plethora of useful knowledge for the betterment of chameleon keeping and to gain a better understanding.
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
When all is said and done, the lasting memory of Chameleon Forums will be something shared, something learned and something taught for our beloved chameleons!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Not for the social current event or who won the past photo contest!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
How many of you here are addicted to CF?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Just imagine if you have that same addition for something else and how much that would cost you?
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Do you not realize out of the generosity of Brad, he has given us something we enjoy for free!
A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR…
Trust me, if he did this for profit, this forum board will have taken a different atmosphere (ex: A WORD FROM OUR SPONSORS…). It would take a lot of sponsor's $$$'s and every other line we type would be filled with ads, to make it tolerable for a site owner to hear each and everyone's complaint!

Needless to say do we really need to trouble him with having to address why everyone who entered did not win and simply save him the trouble and just enjoy the site?

So take it for what it’s worth… take this attitude if you do enter the photo contest and don’t win… “At least it didn’t cost me anything!”

BTW: I once created and owned a successful sponsor free forum site. Walked away and left it to my partners… with all the nit-picking and bickering… life is too short, trying to make everyone happy… and most of all it wasn’t worth it to have others ruin something I enjoyed and freely shared!)

So Brad my heart goes out to you and THANK you!

Also THANK you to the Moderators for your dedication .

And to all those members who share their wealth of information (Quality not Quantity), so I can enjoy keeping chameleons… THANK you!
Click to expand...

Excellent! Very well said!
 
Don't think for one minute I don't appreciate this place. Would my chams be ok without it. Yeah probably so. But I am damn happy it is here if I ever do really need it. Hell if there was a way to make a donation I would. Most succesful forums I've been a member of does this all the time.

Jann you are but one person. Your vote doesn't decide for everyone and the vast majority would not be as keen as you. I wouldn't know your cham from any other. You see new members come along all the time.

Really though this isn't the thread for this discussion. Sorry Reyes didn't mean to totally sidetrack your thread.

My last post on this subject in this thread. If anyone has any further comments toward my rule suggestion please post it in that thread.
 
Pure,

By your own admission you only read the first page of threads and you've only been a member since April. With all due respect, you simply do not realize how frequently people complain about the photo contest or how much whining about it not being fair occurs. It goes well beyond people not reading the rules and wondering why their photo did not make the cut or win. Many of the posts have been removed and to be completely honest, I can't believe Brad still bothers. He has more patience then you can even begin to imagine.

Unfortunately, having a suggestion about improving the rules and making self-pittying complaints (By the way, the definition of whine is "to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way") which are actually false (see my previous post) are two different things. Seeking clarification on a rule or suggesting ways to strengthen the the contest do not require the "poor me" BS, especially when Brad is under no obligation to do this for us at all.

Anyway, to answer the original question, the judging system was put in place to help prevent large ties from occurring. When everyone is voting on 10 photos and everyone's vote counts the same, there were frequent issues with ties occurring. By implementing a judging system with multiple, rotating judges who assign a differential point value to their perceived top photos, ties are far less common. The rotation of the judges helps prevent bias (unless you happen to piss that many people off, in which case, you have other problems you should be thinking about). Having it so that the general vote counts for more points then any one judge also helps prevent bias. I think the system works and that without it, the tie breaking would be far less unbias.

Chris
 
Pure said:
Amanda has had issues with several people on this site. If she feels slighted it is within her right to speak up about it. This again isn't whining. .If she is wrong then by all means let her know why.
Click to expand...

I think I speak on behalf of every moderator and the administrator here that we absolutely positively appreciate those suggestions.
So, keep them coming. :)

With that said, with all due respect, I want to set the record straight about certain complain voiced in this thread and
I do hope this does not come out as "sarcasm," "whining," or as "defensive."

I think Brad does wonderful job in doing the contest.
I remembered I complained once back then when i was a member.
But, i decided that all is fair (especially, considering there is no entry fee).

As far as Amanda's pics not winning, Brad had explained to her clearly.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/june-09-photo-contest-25702/#post238706
I want to make it clear that:
Judges, Moderators, and Administrator do not specifically target people and get rid of their pictures.
It simply because the file received was in a wrong ratio. And, Brad had mentioned it to her.
I am sorry but is it possible that people just forgot to upload the "right" one after resizing the pics?
Or is it possible that people just loose because.. well.. it wasn't a good picture in comparison with others who joined? After all, it is a competition. Sometimes, you will have somebody who happen to take a better picture than you.

I think to quickly allege one is being discriminated against, one should have a strong evidence. That is a serious allegation.

I am speaking my mind as a member of this forum; not as a moderator.
So, I apologized if I hurt anyone's feeling.
 
Last edited:
hi all,

on the subject of whining...
please understand that while I have not been here long, I have lurked here for quite some time.

with that said, please take everything I say lightly as I'm not trying to start some war.

the problems I see of the photo contest is that while some might "freak out" as to why their photo was removed from the contest, or other problems "NOT" related to winning or even making the cut...
the problem(s) I see it is that while there are rules in place, that there are plenty of hidden rules or agendas that are not listed in the rules.

huh? what?

let's face it.
this is not a photo contest.
not one person can even submit a true or real digital image.
an incomplete image, sure. but not a complete one, or a finished product.
it's realy hard to explain it to newbies to the digital world, so I'll try to keep it simple...

an image that any pro or prosumer camera takes today, left on it's own with no post editing, is like submiting a negative to a photo contest back in the film days.
in fact, it's worse.

it's totaly incomplete and unfinished.
the chances of that image being "white balanced" is slim to none.
the chances of that image being "color balanced" is slim to none.
the chances of that image having a "multitude of flaws" or problems with it are huge if left on it's own.
above all, the image was already "processed" by the filters used before it was saved as a .jpeg due to the settings used on the camera...and these filters are so limited in that they can still make the image "way off" regardless that your settings are correct.
(the flip side of this is that, if we allow pre-processing, then why not post-processing?)

this doesn't mean that a good camera can't take a quality photo.
but to say that this is a photo contest that is looking for quality, yet refuses to allow for something so basic as "reasonable" post processing is not a photo contest, but a "negative" contest.

all photos taken straight from the camera are flawed in many ways and DO NOT resemble realty.
I'll repeat myself to make it as clear as posable for anyone who doesn't quite get it yet...
all photos taken straight from the camera are flawed in many ways and DO NOT resemble realty.

like with film, ALL DIGITAL IMAGES TAKEN FROM ANY CAMERA MADE TODAY NEEDS TO BE POST PROCESSED IN ORDER TO MAKE THE IMAGE AS CORRECT AS POSABLE.

while I understand that many here might try to take advantage and try to make a chameleon unnatural or unrealistic, there are already plenty of "rules" or guidelines that can prevent any image from "making the cut" before a vote happens.
so this is realy not a problem at all, and maybe needs to be relooked at.

the problem as I see it is that not even Brad truly understands the "flaws" that all digital cameras have today.
as such the rules are too restrictive and counter productive to quality.


this site also has guidlines that have to be followed such as image size.
while I understand that this has to be, instead of understanding this and the limits that go with it, some like Brad don't. (or choose to ignore them.)
as a result, anyone with a high MP camera will automaticly have a far harder time in order to NOT have a loss in quality and can even have digital artifacts that a lower pixel count camera will never have.
this is not to say that a lower pixel count camera is better, but that due to the limits of the file size, someone who buys a camera today has a worse chance then someone who bought a camera years ago...regardless that the true final image from a modern camera today will always be better for printing or entering a real photo contest.

believe me, I can go on forever when we are talking about this site's photo contest.
but instead I welcome Brad and anyone else to PM me on this subject.
why? well it's time to have a re-look at the rules and see if this forum can come to an understanding about digital photography, it's limits, it's posabilitys, and maybe come to an understanding that introducing "post processing" is not only a good thing but can be done without harm to the forum or the contest.

as for Pure, maybe you should PM Brad to see what his thoughts are on the subject of your post.
maybe he just over looked it, or doesn't agree that it is needed.
but trust me, Brad is not a bad guy.

above all, this is a great site and I thank Brad for all the hard work he puts into it.
I clearly couldn't be a better chameleon keeper without this place.

Harry
 
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