Possible Early Stages of MBD? Or my paranoia?

cantgetagoodsn

Avid Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon
- Male 11 month old Jackson's cham named Reptar. I have had him for about 2 months now.

Handling - At first every other day (I learned that's bad) but now until he approaches me I don't touch him unless I need to, like moving him to his cage this morning, etc.

Feeding - I'm feeding him mostly crickets. I have some waxworms and some superworms, he ate a couple at first, but now only eats crickets. One average he has been eating 3-6 full size crickets every day. My crickets are gutloaded with cricket crack bought here on the forums, and the fluker's moisture globs for hydration.

Supplements - I'm using RepCal everything. I have calcium w/o D3, w/ D3, and Herptivite. I have been dusting with calcium w/o D3 every other day, and w/ D3 every two weeks, and Herptivite only twice, once a month since I've had him. It did take me a couple of weeks to get that combination started with him, but I'm still not quite sure the schedule is correct.

I also, upon further reading, found out I am dusting way too much for each individual cricket. Instead of coating, I'm only going to use a pinch and swirl in a cup.

Watering - I have a dripper near some leaves for it to run on to. I haven't seen him use it yet, it's been there for three days. But, when I first got him I was misting him in his cage 3-5 times a day and would see him drink nearly every time. I started using a mistking a while ago, I see him drink, but not every time, though I am not there during every misting.

Fecal Description - Poo is hard and dark brown. It's been pure pure white since I got him. I noticed the last couple of days it's a tad orange. It's whiter today, and doesn't have that orange blob on the end. I took him to the vet, but I couldn't get a fresh sample. He said he didn't see any from what could see, but wants to see a fresher sample. It's on my todo list this week, more likely earlier.

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History - I think I've explained the extra stuff throughout.

Cage Info:

Cage Type -
2x2x4 screen cage, non-aluminum netting. I leave his door open and have hung two pothos for him to access. He has been in this type of setup for about a week and a half or so, but before that he was only in his cage. Pics below.

Lighting - Reptiglo 5.0 linear tube. I was using a 50W heating bulb but the temps were getting up to the 85-86 sometimes, so I recently bought a 40W soft light bulb (only 40W I saw that wasn't halogen, which I thought would be too bright. Lights on at 9:30AM and off at 10:00PM.

Temperature - With the 40W, it seems to be going from 78-81. Should I try a 45W to see if it gets that 81-83 temp? The middle of the cage is 69-72. Overnight it stays at about 68-70. Use a digital gauge.

Humidity - Humidity is typically 70-90%. Mistking with a Japanese Aralia.

Plants - Japanese Aralia and two pothos.

Placement - In my bedroom.

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Location - West Texas.

Current Problem - He has been doing great up until yesterday. He fell from one of his pothos from about 4.5-5 ft onto my carpet. I know this is nothing huge to be worried about, and even though I was concerned I knew this happens. I encouraged him to climb on to my hand, placed him on the pothos, sat there for about 5 mins, then started doing his normal routine. But when I came home from work last night, I noticed his grip looked more relaxed than normal. I held him and noticed he does seem weaker, especially in the front left hand. His elbow looks very very slightly bowed, but there is still definitely one elbow and not severe MBD.

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I also found him hanging with his front two hands the other day for at least 5 mins. Then I stood there and looked at him to check him out and he eventually climbed on.

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Whenever I made the cage free range, he spent about 60% the time on his pothos, and 40% of the time in his cage exploring or basking. I made the temp change because he gaped a couple of times. That was the second time, but hasn't done it with the 40W.

I realized I was dusting too thick, and am now only going to use a pinch. Could my supplementation schedule and amount cause a weaker grip?

Despite my worry, he is still eating from my hand, moving and exploring, I see him drinking some etc.

Thanks for your help guys!!!
 
Maybe the fall could be the reason for the weak grip??

Can you post a couple of brighter pictures...its hard to tell much from the one you posted.

Does he lift his body off the branches when he moves? Have good tongue function?
 
Maybe the fall could be the reason for the weak grip??

Can you post a couple of brighter pictures...its hard to tell much from the one you posted.

Does he lift his body off the branches when he moves? Have good tongue function?

everything else seems okay. he's eating, moving around, going to his basking, etc.
 
As the only thing I see that needs correction, be careful supplementing a Jax, they suffer from too much D3 and everything. I've seen long term Jax keepers recommend giving vits and D3 only once every 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes longer. I personally rely much more heavily on gutloading and outdoor sunshine than supplementing when it comes to my Jax.

That aside, it's possible he strained his elbow in the fall and it's a little sore and swolen. Only a vet will tell you for sure (nothing beats an x-ray and bloodwork if you're really worried!) but I have a feeling it's probably nothing. But it's always beter to be safe than sorry.
 
As the only thing I see that needs correction, be careful supplementing a Jax, they suffer from too much D3 and everything. I've seen long term Jax keepers recommend giving vits and D3 only once every 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes longer. I personally rely much more heavily on gutloading and outdoor sunshine than supplementing when it comes to my Jax.

That aside, it's possible he strained his elbow in the fall and it's a little sore and swolen. Only a vet will tell you for sure (nothing beats an x-ray and bloodwork if you're really worried!) but I have a feeling it's probably nothing. But it's always beter to be safe than sorry.

it is better safe than sorry, but unfortunately i spent more setting everything up than what i thought, and had a health screening. if he doesnt improve at all ill definitely take him in.
 
You don't think he broke anything taking that fall? Hope your Jackson gets better....I like your free range setup...
 
everything else seems okay. he's eating, moving around, going to his basking, etc.

I think we forget that sometimes a cham will rest one or more legs by draping them loosely over a perch. Maybe one leg is a bit sore from the fall, but if it was really injured I think you'd see bruising and more distortion by now.
 
I think we forget that sometimes a cham will rest one or more legs by draping them loosely over a perch. Maybe one leg is a bit sore from the fall, but if it was really injured I think you'd see bruising and more distortion by now.

okay, I havent seen him sacrifice any movement or anything. He is still just as curious and active, and i cant see any bruising or swelling.
 
it shoudnt be too bad then. but when i first got my jacksons he escaped to get to the female when i went to buy them new cages. it took a couple of days before his leg swelled and he couldnt use it. hes all better now but i noticed one toe doesnt grip all the way down but doesnt effect him at all.
 
it shoudnt be too bad then. but when i first got my jacksons he escaped to get to the female when i went to buy them new cages. it took a couple of days before his leg swelled and he couldnt use it. hes all better now but i noticed one toe doesnt grip all the way down but doesnt effect him at all.

what did you do to help him during that process? ill keep an eye on him.
 
Yeah sounds like nothing big, jacksons can take falls, even though a 5 ft drop still seems very high for a cham, anyways i hope he's fine
 
maybe i am blind, but that cham looks ok. i dont see any bowing of the limbs. he is actually very good looking cham!:)


also, if your cham had mbd, (weak bones especially) dont you think his leg would have broken??:confused:

and i can be a little bit paranoid with my chameleon to!
 
I think he looks OK,
If you notice him straining to walk or favoring one limb more
Id take him to a vet.

Jacksons are ment to take falls,
One of their escape mechinisms involve jumping from high places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eChlwHqJUA

note: that guy should hvae NEVER put the cham in a position where it might
hurt its self, no one should repeadetly put their cham in a position where
they want to jump over and over again.
 
I think he looks OK,
If you notice him straining to walk or favoring one limb more
Id take him to a vet.

Jacksons are ment to take falls,
One of their escape mechinisms involve jumping from high places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eChlwHqJUA

note: that guy should hvae NEVER put the cham in a position where it might
hurt its self, no one should repeadetly put their cham in a position where
they want to jump over and over again.

I hate that video..that poor cham!!! I couldn't imagine doing that to Triton :eek:
 
You guys think he looks OK? Sheesh!! I think he looks very good!!! No outward signs of MBD. Nice straight horns, limbs look good, nice fat pads on the head but not overly fat. Not to mention the one pic of him doing "pull ups". If it was MBD or at least later stages he would be hanging there without any strength to keep himself pulled up. It would look more like him with a straight arm or two with only the claws hanging on to the branch. All in all, he looks like a great example of a jacksons.

It is possible he didnt actually fall but tried to escape by dropping. I would suggest more plants and sticks in his enclosure. From the looks of him this would be my guess. That or he was just in a hurry to do whatever goes through their little minds and "missed a step".
 
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