Protein for feeder crickets, roaches

[Franquixote]

I am reluctant to use dry dog/cat food or fish flakes (if anyone disagrees about fish food in particular please speak up since I have loads of it).

Does anyone think giving them leftover baked beans would be a bad idea?
Obviously just a couple, the only ingredient that concerns me is the preservatives and vinegar.

Ingredients: Water, Prepared Beans, Tomato Paste, Brown Sugar, Sugar, Salt, Distilled White Vinegar, Modified Food Starch, Spices, Mustard Seed, Mustard Bran, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Paprika, Turmeric.

 

[Andee]

Do you want something cooked? Or dry? I can give you a list that will hit a minimum of 18-20%

 

[leedragon]

spirulina

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I wouldn’t use dog kibble or fish flake. Flake and dry fish foods are mostly junk fillers. Dog kibble is high in animal (mammal) protein and that isn’t what chameleons frequently digest in the wild. Insects are naturally adequate in protein and no extra effort needs to be made to increase their protein levels, save feeding them a basically sound diet, with a vegetarian source of protein, such as alfalfa, hemp, or chia powders/flours.

 

[Franquixote]

Hoe about both? Let me know all the options.

 

[Katacara]

Here is a link to a list of posts & blogs about gutloading. You should read through some of them to get a better understanding of what is required for good gutloading. Dog/cat food & fish flakes are 100% not an option for feeding feeders IMO. Yah they might keep your feeders alive, but it will not give your cham what it needs.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/search/957257/?q=gutloading&t=ubs_blog_entry&o=relevance

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I personally make about 50-60% of my dry mix out of a mixture of proteins, such as spirulina, chia, alfalfa, and hemp. I also use pumpkinseed flour, coconut flour, and bee pollen, that also contribute some protein to the equivalent of 3/20ths of the total mixture. The rest of the mixture is sprouted seed flours, 3 organic fruit powders, brewers yeast, kelp powder, and I supply organic, meat free, baby food purée as a moisture source.

 

[Andee]

My dry mixes are heavy on nuts and seeds for high protein, alfalfa based for extra protein, amaranth give a complete protein with all necessary amino acids that meats provide but in ancient grain form, I have done orange or red lentils as well. I do spirulina, bee pollen, dried fruits, dehydrated veggies, dried herbs and spices.... I can put down my complete list but it's like 20 ingredients and another 6 that rotate with others. Just look up high protein vegetable sources, trust me there are a HUGE amount and not all of them are soy. Learn how to do guaranteed analysis equations. And then look up your products average etc. It's what I was originally doing when making my rodent food... I then realized measuring etc, is not as important as most people seem to think.

 

[NickTide]

Never used it myself but apparently non- medicated chicken mash works well. If I remember correctly turkey and game starter (chicks) is very high and no protein. If you go to a real feed store and not a chain, they will likely sell a few pounds instead of a 50#.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Please avoid chicken mash for the same reason you are being advised to avoid dog food and fish foods. Medicated or not, they fortify the mash with vitamins and minerals that will very likely be well and above what the Chameleon needs and this will be to their detriment, as the kidneys and liver work hard to eliminate the excess components from the chameleon’s body. Consider that mammals and birds are warm blooded and their metabolism is very different from a cold blooded reptile. One of very basic premises of that difference is how the 2 differ in their requirements for calories, vitamins, minerals, and protein.
Do people use chicken mash all day, every day? Sure they do, but conduct a quick search at some new members threads with ill Chameleon and almost ubiquitous scenario is that all of them are using some Flukers product or other cheaply obtained feeder/gutload and the chameleons never do better for it.
Must it be complicated? It depends. For panthers and veileds, there are reputable and acceptable gutloads sold here on the forums, but for sensitive species and montane animals, I prefer to make my own mix and adjust my supplements, based on the nutrient dense gutload I know my chameleons are benefiting from.

 

[nightanole]

I would like to point out that you can not feed dubia long term with high protein diets. The crickets will be fine, but you start creeping into the 25% protein, and the dubia will diet off. The little buggers can convert protein to uric acid, so high protein with dubia may cause gout, and once they are uric acid saturated and can not store any more, they croak.

 

[Longhorn1234]

When you guys say you use alfalfa for your dry gutload, is it the same as what's fed to horses? I've seen a 20 (or 50, can't remember) lb bag of alfalfa for $17 at a Tractor Supply. The only ingredient is alfalfa so it doesn't seem like there is anything else added to it

 

[nightanole]

When you guys say you use alfalfa for your dry gutload, is it the same as what's fed to horses? I've seen a 20 (or 50, can't remember) lb bag of alfalfa for $17 at a Tractor Supply. The only ingredient is alfalfa so it doesn't seem like there is anything else added to it

Yup. Though it needs to be the ground up or powdered kind. So either pellets, or i buy the "horse cookies" which are alfalfa and molasses.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/i-think-i-invented-dubia-crack.95938/

 

[Longhorn1234]

Yup. Though it needs to be the ground up or powdered kind. So either pellets, or i buy the "horse cookies" which are alfalfa and molasses.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/i-think-i-invented-dubia-crack.95938/

Thanks for the link!

 

[Andee]

I grind mine but you can also buy cheap powdered alfalfa in wholesale ppl places

 

[Franquixote]

Andee, do you have a thread or list prepared with the full array of ingredients you use?

 

[Andee]

I have kind of a list.... it's been added to somewhat? Gimme a bit... today the world has eaten me and pooped me out so I need to finish up something and yeah.

 

[Katacara]

@Andee you gave me a base list a while back, do you want me to find it and copy it here to save you the time?

 

[Andee]

sure!

 

[Katacara]

I found it!

So here is @Andee's dry gutload:

5 cups of Alfalfa
1/4 cup of Dried berries of some sort (I switch between gojis, non-sweetened cranberries, and blueberries)
1/4 cup Whole sunflower seeds
1/4 cup Whole Pumpkin seeds
1/8 cup Shelled Walnuts
1/4 cup Shelled Almonds
1/4 cup Hemp seeds
1/2 cup Amaranth
1/4 cup Chia seeds
1/4 cup spirulina
1/4 cup bee pollen
1/2 cup parsley
1/4 cup basil
1/4 cup dehydrated carrot flakes
1/4 cup freeze dried zucchini
1/2 cup Nutritional yeast
2 tablespoons brewer's yeast
2 tablespoons ginger
2 tablespoons turmeric
1 teaspoon garlic
1 teaspoon cinnamon
A tablespoon or two of all in one supplements