Question on supplements

[WelshOneEmma]

Having spent some time reading posts, I am aware that people use supplements with and without d3. Am i correct in my understanding that one's with d3 should only be used twice a month?

In the UK, we seem to have different supplementing products and I am now concerned that I may be oversupplementing (and obviously can take what the pet store said with a pinch of salt!).

I currently have the following supplements:

Calypso Cricket Dust - it says made of 99% pure calcium carbonate and must be combined with uvb lighting and adequate levels of dietary or supplementary vitamin d3 (so no d3 in this then!)

Nutrobal - "a high potency calcium balancer and multivitamin supplement" - says it contains the following per gram - 200mg calcium, 150IU D3 plus vitamins A, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B12, C, folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin, choline, niacin and minerals Na, Fe, Co, I, Mn, Zn, Se and Cu.

T-Rex Chameleon Dust - Has a variety of ingreients and states Calcium min 14%, max 16%, Vitamin A Acetate 20,000IU/Kilo, Vitamin D-3, min 4000IU/Kilo

and finally, to feed to the crickets (along with fresh organic fruit, veggies and bee pollen) there is T-Rex Cricket Diet which has the following: Calcium min 9.5%, max 10.5%, Phosphorus 0.7%, Vitamin A Acetate 17,500 IU/kilo, Vitamin D-3 min 3500 IU/Kilo.

I try to alternate the supplements i use (and try to do a day a week with none) and only use a small pinch. Do these sound adequate, or should i cut down / stop using some?

 

[jannb]

If you cham is an adult, you should use plain calcium at just about every feeding. Twice a month calcium with D3 and once a month a multi vitamin such as Herptivite. On the days that you use the D3 and multi do not use the plain calcium because they already have calcium in them and only lightly dust your feeders......don't make them look like ghost. If a baby then plain calcium at just about every feeding. I gutload my crickets with a pre-mixed gutload, that I buy, along with fruits and veggies. Jann

 

[Grizz]

there will be a white powdery discharge from nostrils when they have been over supplemented. also they can become lethargic. i had this problem, we have an above average level of calcium in our water. i was dusting every day. his nostrils started getting white crust, so i cut back to every other day. i had a full spectrum blood work done and found he still had high levels of calcium. i now only dust half his crix every other day. so basicly it is not an exact science. it will take a little time and observation to get it right for your situation. vitamins are the same, young and growing need more while older need less, so it is variable to a point.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Thanks for the responses so far. The cham we have is about 7/8 weeks old. Loves his crickets (ate 25 yesterday, greedy buggar). So i can use the calypso cricket dust daily, and then the nutrobal would be better over the chameleon dust as it has the vitamins and the d3? I have a feeling i might have to start ordering stuff online as i can not find any of the repcal stuff you all talk about over here. And am i ok still giving the feeder powder to the crickets along with their fruit and veggies? I am afraid i am a bit thick when it comes to understanding the supplement side!

 

[Grizz]

as long as the calcium is sulfer free i think it is alright. repcal is 2.0 calcium to sulfer ratio. as far a the vita, beta carotine derived is the most reccomended. your current supps might be allright. if your cham gets real sun you wont need as much D3, not that you need much anyway. it will become easier with time. it can seem like a lot at first. they do a good job at letting you know when something is not right,( via- color, mood, activity and such.)

 

[Grizz]

zoo med 2.0 and t-rex reptavite are both available in uk. i use reptavite, it works well.

 

[Miss Lily]

I'm in the UK and I use Calypso calcium powder and Nutrabol vitamin powder.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Thanks Lily, how often to you supplement with these? Do you alternate? I keep a daily record of which ones i use to make sure i don't forget one.

 

[Miss Lily]

I dust with Calypso on Mon, Weds & Fri and Nutrabol on Saturday. I drew up a chart too on Word that I fill in every day and also make note of poop, what Lily has eaten, when she sheds etc. I know that seems a bit obsessive, but I've kept records since May 08 when I got Lily and they are very useful to look back on.

 

[kinyonga]

For Nutrobal, T-Rex Chameleon Dust and T-Rex Cricket Diet you list that they ALL have D3 and vitamin A in them...IMHO you could be overdoing both of those vitamins. Both of them can build up in the chameleon's system and cause problems.

Here's the short course on supplements, etc....Exposure to UVB (that comes either from a linear/tube fluorescent light or direct sunlight...neither of which should pass through glass or plastic) allows the chameleon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system.

D3 from SUPPLEMENTS can build up in the chameleon's system and cause problems...so I only use it twice a month by dusting the insects with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder.

I dust with vitamins twice a month to ensure that the chameleon gets them...but I use one with a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene (prOformed) can not build up in the system like prEformed vitamin A can. PrEformed vitamin A is just that....formed already...and goes right to work doing its job. However, there is controversy as to whether chameleons can convert beta carotene...so some people give a little prEformed vitamin A once in a while. As I said...prEformed vitamin A can build up in the system and prevent the D3 from doing its job and can lead to MBD, organ damage, etc.

Many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, so dusting with a phos.-free calcium powder at most feedings helps to make up for this.

Appropriate temperatures also play a part in this...it helps with digestion.

Gutloading and feeding the insects a proper diet is important too. I use an assortment of greens (dandelion, collards, kale, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, celery leaves, etc.) to feed the crickets and superworms.

I hope this helps make it a little clearer??
---------------
Grizz said..."as long as the calcium is sulfer free i think it is alright"...its calcium vs phosphorous...NOT sulfur.
Reptivite also has preformed vitamin A and D3 and phosphorous in it, BTW...
http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=773

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Hi Kinyonga,

That does make a little more sense to me! We have been so keen to make sure that we give supplements, i guess we have been a little too keen! We do have a strip uvb light in the enclosure, so it definately gets to Hugo, and i also regularly trim the ficus back, so that it doesn't get too overgrown. We also gutload the crickets with fresh vegetables such as Kale, broccoli, leeks, green beans, occasional bit of spinach, and fruits such as raspberries, apples, pears and grapes. They usually have a mix of both vegetables and fruit in their tank (the crickets have their own tank with cardboard rolls etc!) along with a dish of bee pollen and a dish of bug gel. The tank also has a floor of bug grub and they have a dish of cricket gutload vitamins, so hopefully, they are sufficiently gutloaded! I will continue with the Calypso dust on a daily basis (Calcium) and then twice a month use the nutrobal, as that seems to have the D3 and the vitamins. Do you think this will suffice?