Random question, have things changed?

[jamest0o0]

I just noticed that a lot of older forum posts here( from years back) that i've come across, people seem to freak at the idea of having substrate or any extra decorations. Now it seems more acceptable when done correctly? For example using natural set ups with eco earth lining foam walls, moss, cork bark, bioactive substrates, etc.

When i asked about these (and am planning on it) i got pretty positive feedback with just the caution to be careful about anything big the cham could swallow.

Have people become more accepting of using this style of enclosure for their chams or does it depend who you ask? I'm relatively new so i might be completely off lol.

 

[Remkon]

It depends on who you ask I guess...

No substrate is the advise since it's safest and easiest to keep clean and since people with little or no experience also come here it's best to give em that advise.
Keeling chameleons, compared to most other pets, is quite complicated so if you're just starting best don't complicate it more than needed.

 

[jamest0o0]

Good point i understand and fully agree with that. If i go with a bioactive substrate, it'll be down the road. I like the ecosystem idea.

 

[Remkon]

I did substrate with my jax a bit but it was not a great success since I did not have drainage.
I had to manually drain the bottom every two days or it would have become a mud pool.

An ecosystem does indeed sound nice but it's more maintenance and if I add up all time I spend on my chameleons, their food and the foods food I don't really want to add any more work.

I do still have pygmy chameleons on my bucket-list, I'd do a substrate with those for sure!

 

[Davecameos]

I love this subject lol I am active on FB groups where people have been doing it for decades. More common in Europe.

All my vivs are bioactive. In my opinion it is the way to go forward. Chams are happier and wild recreation is the key to success.
When the bio is done properly and animals are healthy there is not risk at all.
There are lots of myths about impaction.
Obviously it is not like throwing substrate to the cage and that is it. You have to use the right materials.
Custodians do a lot of the cleaning and Plants thrive.

 

[Andee]

The thing about bioactive enclosures is it takes the right substrate layered in the correct way, also usually a clean up crew is a great thing to add just to make the cleaning less of a problem if you get fungus or bacterial growth. Also most healthy bioactive enclosures need a pretty long test run compared to regular enclosures which usually only need a week or less. In fact I wouldn't put something I would be afraid to add anything I wouldn't want to lose(plant or animal) until a couple months of stability. Slowly adding clean up crews and safe plants along the way.

 

[Lathis]

To me, there's a big difference between "substrate" and a planted bioactive system.

When "substrate" is used, it usually means something loose laid down on the bottom intended to be temporary and replaceable, either for looks or for absorbing waste/moisture. Think cocobark or sand in pet store cages. This type of substrate is not encouraged for chameleons for several reasons. Yes, impaction, but even more importantly because unless you are scrupulous with cleaning and replacing wet substrate daily, which is difficult in a cage with constant dripping moisture, it becomes a swampy breeding ground for all sorts of nasty stuff. And it smells.

So, "substrate" - no. Well designed, well drained, and properly layered planted enclosure - sure, but it's not for everybody.

Bare bottom cage is still the easiest and cleanest way to go, especially for new keepers who are on a steep learning curve. Don't make it harder on yourself than it needs to be!

 

[Sticktongue]

To me, there's a big difference between "substrate" and a planted bioactive system.

When "substrate" is used, it usually means something loose laid down on the bottom intended to be temporary and replaceable, either for looks or for absorbing waste/moisture. Think cocobark or sand in pet store cages. This type of substrate is not encouraged for chameleons for several reasons. Yes, impaction, but even more importantly because unless you are scrupulous with cleaning and replacing wet substrate daily, which is difficult in a cage with constant dripping moisture, it becomes a swampy breeding ground for all sorts of nasty stuff. And it smells.

So, "substrate" - no. Well designed, well drained, and properly layered planted enclosure - sure, but it's not for everybody.

Bare bottom cage is still the easiest and cleanest way to go, especially for new keepers who are on a steep learning curve. Don't make it harder on yourself than it needs to be!

This right here is your exact answer! Very well put and spot on.

 

[Davecameos]

To me, there's a big difference between "substrate" and a planted bioactive system.

When "substrate" is used, it usually means something loose laid down on the bottom intended to be temporary and replaceable, either for looks or for absorbing waste/moisture. Think cocobark or sand in pet store cages. This type of substrate is not encouraged for chameleons for several reasons. Yes, impaction, but even more importantly because unless you are scrupulous with cleaning and replacing wet substrate daily, which is difficult in a cage with constant dripping moisture, it becomes a swampy breeding ground for all sorts of nasty stuff. And it smells.

So, "substrate" - no. Well designed, well drained, and properly layered planted enclosure - sure, but it's not for everybody.

Bare bottom cage is still the easiest and cleanest way to go, especially for new keepers who are on a steep learning curve. Don't make it harder on yourself than it needs to be!

In that case not substrate but bioactive cages.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thanks for the responses, yeah i don't plan to do that until after i have an established cham that i'm comfortable with. I have researched a lot about bioactives because ecosystem-like enclosures fascinate me. Reminds me of a reef aquarium on land.

Anyway thanks guys, was just curious. The tone about all this stuff seemed to change a lot over the years.

 

[Lathis]

Things should change and evolve - that means we are learning as a community!

 

[Andee]

I believe everything will always be changing and hopefully for the better, in the chameleon community. The amazing thing about them is we constantly learn new things about them and keeping then.