Remmys sudden passing

[Chammy007]

Hello, I was doing the usual lights off lights on routine and discovered my Remmy collapsed on the bottom of his terrarium laying on his side. I rushed him to the vet and they weren't sure what was wrong him and gave a prescription for Calcium gluconate. By the time I brought him home he had passed. I'm heart broken;@ blaming myself.
Not sure what went wrong. What can I do to prevent this from happening again?
Peace

 

[ERKleRose]

I am so sorry! If you want to, you can fill out the ask for help form in as much detail as possible and post pics of his entire cage and lights. Again, I’m terribly sorry, losing a pet is never easy; let me know if I can do anything to help!

 

[Chammy007]

I am so sorry! If you want to, you can fill out the ask for help form in as much detail as possible and post pics of his entire cage and lights. Again, I’m terribly sorry, losing a pet is never easy; let me know if I can do anything to help!

Is there an actual survey to fill out? Should I start a new thread?thanks

 

[ERKleRose]

You can fill out on this thread. Here it is:

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Chammy007]

Here’s the survey:

Chameleon Info:

- Your Chameleon : Jackson’s Chammy, male, not really sure of age. He’s been under my care since Apr. 2021. Guessing 5 months old.
- Handling : none
- Feeding : Phoenix worms 10 every two days. Not gut loading
- Supplements: none at this time
- Watering : misting with a spray bottle 2-3 times per day. 2 min per spraying.
- Fecal Description : watery. Has not been tested for parasites?
- History - none at this time time


Cage Info:

- Cage Type: Zen Habitats enclosure. 24x24x48
- Lighting : Reptisun 5.0 UVB 22”
: basking bulb : 3 way 120 v with a Flukers deluxe clamp lamp
- Temperature : average 80 degrees measured with a Goabroa Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
- humidity : average 80% humidity measured with a Goabroa Mini Hygrometer Thermometer
- Plants : money trees, polka dot plants, maiden hair ferns, Benjamin ficus tree, will be adding umbrella trees as well.
- Placement : not near any fans, air vents, etc. The
terrarium is 48” height from floor to top
- Location : northwest United States
- Current Problem : looking to prevent premature death of a next Jackson’s Chammy

heres a pic of my terrarium as it is:

I recently relocated my Benjamin ficus outdoors in an attempt to rescue the plant. It’s been shedding like crazy. thanks much

 

[Chammy007]

I’m totally saddened. Without my Chammy it feels like something is missing. Memories of seeing him perched on his basking branch saddens me. I’ve only had him for a few months but I’ve grown quite fond of him. I guess I’m going to have to start from the beginning. If you had to start from the beginning where would you begin? I don’t want to have to go through this again. Thanks much.

 

[ERKleRose]

@JacksJill @Kaizen @Mendez @leedragon and/or other experienced jacksons keepers will be able to go through your form much better than me. To help try to prevent anything like this from happening in the future, you’ll want to make sure your husbandry and set-up are at 100% before getting a cham, then getting a cham from a reputable breeder, and going to an experienced chameleon vet for a general check-up and fecal tests, too

 

[Mendez]

First off, I'm sorry for your loss. They are truly amazing creatures with such personality.

Here’s the survey:

Chameleon Info:

- Your Chameleon : Jackson’s Chammy, male, not really sure of age. He’s been under my care since Apr. 2021. Guessing 5 months old.
- Handling : none
- Feeding : Phoenix worms 10 every two days. Not gut loading

While Phoenix worms are very nutritional, they should be fed alongside other feeders as well such as dubia roaches, crickets, silkworms, and superworms. Phoenix worms can be hard to digest, especially if swallowed whole. I wouldn't recommend feeding that many phoenix worms at a single time either--it quite a bit for the digestive tract. Probably not the cause of death, but something you need to be aware of for your next chameleon if you decide to get one.

- Supplements: none at this time

Well...damn. I'm not mad at you because you didn't know better, but they do need supplements. They need plain calcium at every feeding, calcium with D3 and a multivitamin once a month. Without these, you are asking for a multitude of problems such as mbd, eye and tongue issues, etc.

- Watering : misting with a spray bottle 2-3 times per day. 2 min per spraying.

Watering/misting depends on humidity. I'll talk about this in the humidity section.

- Fecal Description : watery. Has not been tested for parasites?

White/Orange/Brown/Black? If he is well hydrated, then his poops will be white and black. A tinge of orange is fine.

- History - none at this time time


Cage Info:

- Cage Type: Zen Habitats enclosure. 24x24x48
- Lighting : Reptisun 5.0 UVB 22”
: basking bulb : 3 way 120 v with a Flukers deluxe clamp lamp

How far away is the reptisun uvb light from the closest branch?

- Temperature : average 80 degrees measured with a Goabroa Mini Hygrometer Thermometer

80F at the basking spot I presume? What was the ambient cage temp? What were the nighttime temps?

I have to go but I'll finish up a little later.

 

[Mendez]

- Temperature : average 80 degrees measured with a Goabroa Mini Hygrometer Thermometer

Basking temp needs to be 80-85F (at the chameleon's back). Ambient can be anywhere between 68-75F. The nighttime temp needs to be 65F and below. Preferably under 60F. A night or two over 65 is fine here and there as long as you can get the night temps down the next night. If you cannot acheive 65F or below, you should check out other species like a panther chameleon which can literally come in every imaginable color except ultraviolet. There are also other species of reptiles out there that don't need too much of a nighttime temp drop. Just be sure to keep your eyes open.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QC7JRDP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

- humidity : average 80% humidity measured with a Goabroa Mini Hygrometer Thermometer

Is this during the day or night? You should aim for 30-50% humidity during the day and 75%+ humidity during the night. A good mist before they go to sleep and when they wake up can ensure that they stay hydrated. Since you have a glass enclosure, this might be enough humidity to get you through the night.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QC7JRDP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

- Plants : money trees, polka dot plants, maiden hair ferns, Benjamin ficus tree, will be adding umbrella trees as well.

You should consider getting a grow light that emits visible light in the daylight color spectrum. Not only will this help with plant growth, but your chameleon will enjoy a brighter cage as well.

 

[Mendez]

You also need to be comfortable with bugs such as crickets and dubia roaches which should be the primary staple with black soldier fly larvae (phoenix worms) rotated around them along with the occasional superworm. Phoenix worms on their own are insufficient. Bugs like crickets, superworms, and dubia roaches need to be gutloaded which means that you are feeding them healthy foods that are conducive to overall bug health. The healthier the bug, the better off your chameleon is.

You don't need to dust phoenix worms with plain calcium. But you will need to dust the crickets, superworms, and dubia roaches. You can get a plain calcium without D3 from the pet store. A good D3 and multivitamin supplement that you can get is either Repashy calcium plus LoD or Reptivite with D3. This needs to be given once a month regardless of feeder. If for some reason you want to feed phoenix worms on a multivitamin and D3 day, then dust the phoenix worms or use a different feeder. If you are uncomfortable with these bugs, consider not getting an insectivore.

Once again, I'm really sorry for your loss. Even though you've only had him for a few months, I know that they grow quickly on your heart. Take care and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Chammy007]

First off, I'm sorry for your loss. They are truly amazing creatures with such personality.


While Phoenix worms are very nutritional, they should be fed alongside other feeders as well such as dubia roaches, crickets, silkworms, and superworms. Phoenix worms can be hard to digest, especially if swallowed whole. I wouldn't recommend feeding that many phoenix worms at a single time either--it quite a bit for the digestive tract. Probably not the cause of death, but something you need to be aware of for your next chameleon if you decide to get one.


Well...damn. I'm not mad at you because you didn't know better, but they do need supplements. They need plain calcium at every feeding, calcium with D3 and a multivitamin once a month. Without these, you are asking for a multitude of problems such as mbd, eye and tongue issues, etc.


Watering/misting depends on humidity. I'll talk about this in the humidity section.


White/Orange/Brown/Black? If he is well hydrated, then his poops will be white and black. A tinge of orange is fine.


How far away is the reptisun uvb light from the closest branch?


80F at the basking spot I presume? What was the ambient cage temp? What were the nighttime temps?

I have to go but I'll finish up a little later.

I’d just like to say thanks for your help and support. It means a lot. As I was writing the survey I realized how much I don’t know. The survey was just a list of things that weren’t in my knowledge base. I didn’t realize how much of a newbie I am. Thanks again.

In the forums It was suggested where they said to feed 10 Phoenix worms every other day. Just making sure. What feeders do you recommend and how many days per week should they be fed to the Chammy?

as far as calcium goes is Miner-All d3 okay ? And as far as Multivitamins goes is Herptivite okay as well?

His poop was dark and white.

the uvb bulb is eight inches above the closest branch.

Regarding thermometers, how many should be housed in the terrarium at any giving time. Where should they be placed? Here‘s a pic of the thermometers I currently have. What ones would you go with?

 

[Chammy007]

.

 

[Mendez]

I’d just like to say thanks for your help and support. It means a lot. As I was writing the survey I realized how much I don’t know. The survey was just a list of things that weren’t in my knowledge base. I didn’t realize how much of a newbie I am. Thanks again.

You are totally welcome! I'm just glad that you are willing to learn!

In the forums It was suggested where they said to feed 10 Phoenix worms every other day. Just making sure. What feeders do you recommend and how many days per week should they be fed to the Chammy?

10 phoenix worms every other day is insufficient. While phoenix worms and can be a staple food item, your feeding regimen should revolve around picking a primary feeder such as crickets or dubia roaches (or both). After picking a primary feeder, you can pick other insects like phoenix worms, superworms, silkworms to cycle around. If your cham is still growing, feed as much as he will eat every day. If your cham is mature, then feed him every other day 2-3 food items. One day I'll feed a dubia roach and a superworm. Then the next time I feed, I'll give him a dubia roach and two phoenix worms. Hornworms are also good feeders and very common.

as far as calcium goes is Miner-All d3 okay ? And as far as Multivitamins goes is Herptivite okay as well?

Herptavite has no preformed vitamin A (retinol) which is what chameleons need for good eye-tongue coordination. Herptavite uses proformed vitamin A (beta carotene) which humans use to convert to preformed vitamin A; however it is speculated that some species of chameleons cannot do this conversion process. In short, stick to a multivitamin that has performed vitamin A or a mix between preformed and proformed. I recommend Reptivite with D3 or Repashy Calcium Plus LoD both of which have the necessary multivitamins and D3. This means that you won't need to use the miner-all with D3 at all. If you really want to use the miner-all with D3, then I suggest getting Reptivite without D3. Do not use Reptivite with D3 or Repashy Calcium Plus LoD with Miner-all with D3 or you will overdose your cham with D3.

Plain calcium: every feeding
Multivitamin and D3: once a month

His poop was dark and white.

Okay, well this is good. This means that he was well hydrated--good job!

the uvb bulb is eight inches above the closest branch.

Perfect! This is a good height! Just make sure to replace the bulb every year as the effectiveness decreases over time.

Regarding thermometers, how many should be housed in the terrarium at any giving time. Where should they be placed? Here‘s a pic of the thermometers I currently have. What ones would you go with?

Put one thermometer probe reader in the basking spot to monitor temps to make sure they are not getting too hot. Then Put another one in the middle to bottom portion of the cage to read temperature and humidity. Some people use Govee hygrometer/thermometer probes while others, such as myself, just use whatever is available at the local hardware store. Just make sure the "outside" thermometer probe can read humidity as well. I will say that the next probe I will get will be a Govee probe because they are pretty dang cheap, super reliable, and can be monitored on your phone. Here's the link:

Bluetooth Option: https://www.amazon.com/Govee-Thermo...words=govee+temperature&qid=1624846399&sr=8-9

WiFi Option (more expensive but you can monitor the temps and humidity away from home): https://www.amazon.com/Govee-Indoor...words=govee+temperature&qid=1624846485&sr=8-5

You should be A-OKAY buying the cheaper option of bluetooth as you really don't need to monitor temps/humidity away from home. But if you want to spend more money, the option is there.

For placement: make sure all temperature/hygrometer probes are out of the mist zone as water will result in inaccurate readings.

 

[ERKleRose]

For Sticky Tongue Farms supplements, if you don't know a ton about supplements or know exactly what you're doing with mixing it with different types, you should stick to Miner-All (whichever version(s) needed) and Vit-All (prepared via the instructions) only as your only supplement(s) and gutload

 

[ERKleRose]

For Sticky Tongue Farms supplements, if you don't know a ton about supplements or know exactly what you're doing with mixing it with different types, you should stick to Miner-All (whichever version(s) needed) and Vit-All (prepared via the instructions) only as your only supplement(s) and gutload

So I would get a plain phosphorus-free calcium without D3 to replace your Miner-All

 

[Hawaiian Rose]

Hello, I was doing the usual lights off lights on routine and discovered my Remmy collapsed on the bottom of his terrarium laying on his side. I rushed him to the vet and they weren't sure what was wrong him and gave a prescription for Calcium gluconate. By the time I brought him home he had passed. I'm heart broken;@ blaming myself.
Not sure what went wrong. What can I do to prevent this from happening again?
Peace

Condolences and I'm so sorry for your loss.