Runny Poop Sometimes

[GeoCham]

All,

I'm new to chams...

I have a Male 4 month old Veiled Cham.
I house him in a 24"x24"x48" Reptibreeze
Foliage: Plastic fake leaves and fake waterproof vines
Lighting: Repti Sun 5.0 T5, and 100 watt zoomed blue basking light 7" from nearest point. All run 12hr on/12hr off.
Temps: 76 degrees ambient, 85 degrees at nearest basking spot
Humidity: Ranged originally from 40 to 50, but then I noticed some light stuck shed and increased fogger. 2 weeks ago. Now 50 to 60 on the humidity
Water: Big Dripper (3/4 of jug per day), Repti Fogger on at timer for 30 mins every 4 hours except bedtime. Misted 3 time per day with water bottle. All water drains through pan to a bucket below
Feed: 20 medium crickets per day and an occasional super worm. Dusted with Repti Cal with D3 every other day, Hornworns (2 small ones) every other week to ensure hydration
He is super active when I'm not in the room, hunts like crazy. VERY good appetite
Handling: Only when needed for cleaning (mean little guy)
Purchased at a petco
His urates are always stark white, he does drink when I'm not looking

My question is he always had very dry fecal matter until a week ago. Now they are formed but flat occasionally. I know his urates look orange, but I assure you they are not, just stained by the poo. Is this normal or should I schedule a vet immediately?

 

[iMi]

It's not a cause for immediate alarm. If she's active and eating normally there is likely nothing to worry about. Make sure you're misting her regularly so she stays hydrated and keep an eye on her. If things don't improve over the next few days then consider scheduling a visit.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Up your T5 lighting from a 5.0 to a 10.0. More horizontal branches and foliage. Also recommend at least 1 live plant to help with humidity and security. Dusting should be calcium NO D3 everyday, Calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks, and a multivitamin once every 2 weeks. With what are you gutloading your feeders? Also fogger are ok to run during nighttime. In fact it's best practice to run them then. The diarrhea could be from the hornworms. Or he could have a parasite. Have you had his fecal examined by a vet?

 

[GeoCham]

It's not a cause for immediate alarm. If she's active and eating normally there is likely nothing to worry about. Make sure you're misting her regularly so she stays hydrated and keep an eye on her. If things don't improve over the next few days then consider scheduling a visit.

Thank you for the quick response.
He had a 80 watt solar glo that the better pet store in town told me I had to have. Thanks to this forum I found out that I was using the wrong light and switched to the repti sun light last weekend. Not sure if that’s info anyone needed to know.

 

[GeoCham]

Up your T5 lighting from a 5.0 to a 10.0. More horizontal branches and foliage. Also recommend at least 1 live plant to help with humidity and security. Dusting should be calcium NO D3 everyday, Calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks, and a multivitamin once every 2 weeks. With what are you gutloading your feeders? Also fogger are ok to run during nighttime. In fact it's best practice to run them then. The diarrhea could be from the hornworms. Or he could have a parasite. Have you had his fecal examined by a vet?

Recommendation on vitamins and calcium? I buy them from the pet store that uses the pre-made stuff, but I give them oranges and carrots.
No, I have not had him examined yet.

 

[iMi]

Thank you for the quick response.
He had a 80 watt solar glo that the better pet store in town told me I had to have. Thanks to this forum I found out that I was using the wrong light and switched to the repti sun light last weekend. Not sure if that’s info anyone needed to know.

There is nothing wrong with solar glow bulbs. It's a mercury vapor bulb and it will provide both UVB and UVA. What you really need to use with it is a UVB meter to make sure the output is sufficient for vitamin B photosynthesis.

You could absolutely use it as a single source of light. Just need to be sure the UVB output is sufficient. What you have now is going to work great, too. No need to worry.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

 

[GeoCham]

Thank you very much.
So if I cut off Hornworms a week ago, how much longer should I give it before scheduling a fecal?

 

[GeoCham]

Up your T5 lighting from a 5.0 to a 10.0. More horizontal branches and foliage. Also recommend at least 1 live plant to help with humidity and security. Dusting should be calcium NO D3 everyday, Calcium with D3 once every 2 weeks, and a multivitamin once every 2 weeks. With what are you gutloading your feeders? Also fogger are ok to run during nighttime. In fact it's best practice to run them then. The diarrhea could be from the hornworms. Or he could have a parasite. Have you had his fecal examined by a vet?

I just realized how old that pick was. I have already installed 4 more vines focusing on horizontal position, and have installed more fake plants. I’ve been a little nervous about the real plants but I guess I should give it a try.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Thank you very much.
So if I cut off Hornworms a week ago, how much longer should I give it before scheduling a fecal?

I would think a week in itself would've been good.

 

[GeoCham]

10-4. I will get one scheduled. It’s just been strange that some days the BM’s are formed and some days not. I wasn’t sure if he was over hydrated or if parasites caused fluctuations in fecal consistency like that. Nonetheless, better safe than sorry. My parrot needs a check up anyway, I’ll take a sample with me.

 

[jamest0o0]

There is nothing wrong with solar glow bulbs. It's a mercury vapor bulb and it will provide both UVB and UVA. What you really need to use with it is a UVB meter to make sure the output is sufficient for vitamin B photosynthesis.

You could absolutely use it as a single source of light. Just need to be sure the UVB output is sufficient. What you have now is going to work great, too. No need to worry.

Agree that he should have a meter. At 1 foot away my MVB reads almost !30.0... I have it 3ftish, maybe further away from the cage and it is about 5-6still in the top where my cham doesn't usually go. Nice bulb though and I know not all of them are the same. I still need a basking obviously, at 3ft+ there's no heat making it that far.

OP a fecal is definitely in order just incase, especially since you got the cham from Petco. Could also just be from the hornworms.

 

[GeoCham]

There is nothing wrong with solar glow bulbs. It's a mercury vapor bulb and it will provide both UVB and UVA. What you really need to use with it is a UVB meter to make sure the output is sufficient for vitamin B photosynthesis.

You could absolutely use it as a single source of light. Just need to be sure the UVB output is sufficient. What you have now is going to work great, too. No need to worry.

What brand/model meter is the best? Planning an Amazon order for his vitamins and calcium, might as well order one at the same time. Also, what is the UVB amount I should target? Should it be consistent throughout the enclosure or more at his basking spot? I think I will wait to take some readings before I get a 10.0 reptisun. I’ve heard mixed reviews on this forum on those, however, they may have been discussing use in a smaller enclosure.

Thank you in advance.

 

[iMi]

What brand/model meter is the best? Planning an Amazon order for his vitamins and calcium, might as well order one at the same time. Also, what is the UVB amount I should target? Should it be consistent throughout the enclosure or more at his basking spot? I think I will wait to take some readings before I get a 10.0 reptisun. I’ve heard mixed reviews on this forum on those, however, they may have been discussing use in a smaller enclosure.

Thank you in advance.

There are really two approaches you can take. The most accepted one is to measure overall UVB and UVA exposure and focus on Ferguson UV zones. The meter best suited is Solarmeter 6.5 or similar. Second is to measure UVB output and basically compare it to the sun's output. Solarmeter 6.2 or similar serves this function. Create "full sun" areas and gradually declining "shade" areas. There is a minimum, which I believe is around 30 uW/cm2 that is required for vitamin D photosynthesis. In fact, there is a zone where this process takes place. Below and above will not produce the desired results. There is a formula for converting UVB output to a zone reading but it's complicated and apparently leaves out elements that could impact the animal anyway. Ideally you should really have both meters, but that's not practical. If you buy one, go with the 6.5 and focus on maintaining proper zones.

The good news is that diurnal reptiles are able to perceive UVB and will self-regulate much the way they thermoregulate. This is why you cannot really over-UVB them, as long as you provide full shade and sufficient gradient to both heat and UVB output there is no risk either way -- underexposure or overexposure.

I would recommend you read up on it. It's not rocket science at all and it's quite interesting.

 

[GeoCham]

Sounds like I’m getting both because I ordered a UVB meter today. Anyway, just to get your opinion, I also ordered Miner-All outdoor for my daily calcium, Miner-All indoor for my bi-weekly calcium, and Reptivit for bi-weekly administration. (I will check out if Reptivit has D3 and will rotate if so?). I also have a vet appointment that he is going to on Saturday after lunch. Hunting down an appropriate sized box for that at the moment... While I was at it got some vertical climbing branches too. And something else but I forgot already....

 

[SharpShooter]

Sounds like I’m getting both because I ordered a UVB meter today. Anyway, just to get your opinion, I also ordered Miner-All outdoor for my daily calcium, Miner-All indoor for my bi-weekly calcium, and Reptivit for bi-weekly administration. (I will check out if Reptivit has D3 and will rotate if so?). I also have a vet appointment that he is going to on Saturday after lunch. Hunting down an appropriate sized box for that at the moment... While I was at it got some vertical climbing branches too. And something else but I forgot already....

Don't forget your sample lol and please let us know how it goes.

 

[iMi]

Sounds like I’m getting both because I ordered a UVB meter today. Anyway, just to get your opinion, I also ordered Miner-All outdoor for my daily calcium, Miner-All indoor for my bi-weekly calcium, and Reptivit for bi-weekly administration. (I will check out if Reptivit has D3 and will rotate if so?). I also have a vet appointment that he is going to on Saturday after lunch. Hunting down an appropriate sized box for that at the moment... While I was at it got some vertical climbing branches too. And something else but I forgot already....

I am pretty sure any reputable supplement will do just fine. You also don't need the second meter at this point, unless you really want it. You can roughly convert the measurements. Search this forum. We've had a discussion on this topic recently. Search for "metal halide" and the posts should come up. Mercury vapor bulbs are a similar concept in what they aim to achieve, so same ideas apply.

I forgot to tell you earlier that if you are feeding hornworms, which are great, they can definitely cause some runny stools. Keep that in mind.

 

[GeoCham]

I am pretty sure any reputable supplement will do just fine. You also don't need the second meter at this point, unless you really want it. You can roughly convert the measurements. Search this forum. We've had a discussion on this topic recently. Search for "metal halide" and the posts should come up. Mercury vapor bulbs are a similar concept in what they aim to achieve, so same ideas apply.

I forgot to tell you earlier that if you are feeding hornworms, which are great, they can definitely cause some runny stools. Keep that in mind.

Sounds great, I’m pretty bad at math so I will definitely research that thread. Very interesting stuff. He has been off hornworms since I noticed the change. About 1-1/2 weeks. Still a little runny. I will let all of you guys know what the doc says Saturday afternoon. Thanks again for all your knowledge.

 

[GeoCham]

UPDATE

Took Geo to the vet today with fecal sample. He had every parasite one could have. I brought home 2 different meds. The vet said he is a really healthy Cham other than that. No MBD which she was afraid of considering where he came from. She couldn’t believe he was as hydrated as he was considering the infestation. She also told me to never buy a box store Cham ever again. So in a week he should be back to normal. Thanks again for the help everyone. He probably wouldn’t have lasted much longer.

 

[GeoCham]

Don't forget your sample lol and please let us know how it goes.

Funny you said that. I did and had to turn back and get it. When I put it in the fridge, I told myself “don’t forget this”......