Severe Metabolic Bone Disease Urgent!!

[zorygirl]

I work at Petco and I just rescued a Veiled from there yesterday. It has severe Metabolic bone disease and my boss refused to take it to the vet. I honestly don't think he is going to make it. I can get him to a vet tomorrow if he is still with me. Yesterday I gave him .05 of the Zilla calcium spray in an attempt to save his life and he gladly drank it. I bought a new UVB light yesterday and he also has a 75 watt black light for heat. The basking spot is 90 degrees and humidity is at 50%. He is NOT eating anymore and can no longer climb or walk. I need ideas of what you would do in this emergency situation. The emergency clinic does NOT do reptiles and it is 9 pm so options are severely limited. I would have taken him yesterday but I worked until 9pm. I now have him on a raised bed so he is closer to the UVB.

There is also a heating pad under the tank on low for a little extra warmth since he felt cold to the touch. I do have another Veiled and she is fine and feels warm. I do know they should never be in the same cage due to stress but it literally until tomorrow. It is the Zoo Med Terrrerium with screen top. I am in the process of building a completely screened in enclosure but I do work and have a family so it takes a little time to complete it. The sick chameleon is about 3-4 months old the healthy female is pretty tiny about he length of my pinky finger.

I am including my cell number and feel free to text me if you have any ideas. I will check this site every few minutes until bed around midnight.

Thanks
Kris

 

[zorygirl]

My cell is 360-927-6193 Please help if you can think of anything.
Kris

 

[Pilotman800]

Welcome to the site. Unfortunately its for something like this.

First, you should get liquid calcium and administer it orally every day until her bones harden. You're doing the right thing by getting a UVB light. What type is it?

Generally, we don't recommend black lights, but in this case it is an emergency and will do for now.

I don't think you should keep that heating pad in there. If she can't walk, she can get too hot and overheat easily. The basking light should be enough.

As for the feeding, you're going to have to force feed. You can try this by mashing up the food and gently putting it in her mouth with a syringe. Be careful, her jaw bones are probably very weak due to the MBD.

Can you upload a photo?

Im so sorry this is happening. I give you props for taking her in while she is like this. Tell you're boss he doesn't deserve to work there.

 

[Elizadolots]

If you have any fatty worm (butter, wax, silk) you might try forcing those. You can pry the mouth open using a credit card pressed gently on the side of the mouth.

Good luck. Let us know how things go.

 

[ChameleonNerd]

the heating pad is not necessary. if you stay it has stopped eating that is not good. can you post a picture? also, if you say "severe" mbd, then i would find a way to get an exotic reptiles vet asap. calcium injections might be the only help for this guy in this case. i have my fingers crossed for you and the chameleon though. best of luck

 

[chameleoman]

If you have any fatty worm (butter, wax, silk) you might try forcing those. You can pry the mouth open using a credit card pressed gently on the side of the mouth.

Good luck. Let us know how things go.

ya feed soft nodied worms for now try to get some silkworms and you should SERIOUSLY if possible report it some where like an animal shelter or something.....i want to kill your boss at the moment

 

[Elizadolots]

I think it should be reported to Petco corporate...or maybe we should all write letters to them complaining about it and pointing to this thread.

 

[chendy]

i am sorry to hear about the cham, but your doing the right thing
i second that notion of writing corporate, petco(no offense to the person who works there) but petco has never given me any helpful or correct information when it comes to the care and needs of chameleons.

 

[zorygirl]

The Heating pad is under the tank and there is 3 inches of dirt on the tank floor so the dirt is just a nice warm feeling. He feels cold to the touch so that is why I used it to supplement his heat. The other veiled is warm to the touch. Why are black lights bad? i am not being contradictory I just want to learn so I don't give customers the wrong info. Should I just use a straight basking light then? What about at night? My house is too cold 70 degrees for no heat at night. I was told they can't see a black light or a red light is that true or does anyone really know I mean we can't ask them.

The UVB light is a Zoo Med 10.0 bulb. Should I use the liquid Vit D3 also I have the sunshine drops that my son use to take. 100IU per drop I
think. I can reread the bottle.

Kris

 

[sdheli420]

I think it should be reported to Petco corporate...or maybe we should all write letters to them complaining about it and pointing to this thread.

i think so as well, yes it make chams harder to obtain, but is good for the species in general to thrive in the long run since they wont be so reddealy available to the general public..they would be considered a more exotic species, rather than beeing advertized as a begginner chameleon( what i was told with my very first cham in 1992.... a wc senegal with sunken eyes, and one would not open, they told me "ohh he's fine" wish i knew what i know then.!!!..nowa days, ied have prolly got arrested for knocking that guy out, for beeing such a blatent liar to my face...

 

[Elizadolots]

Petco hate is sort of painful for me because they are a local company and here, they are excellent. I mean, practically pristine. I know some in the outskirts have reported seeing a chameleon in Petco, but I never have. I sometimes buy crickets from a Petco that doesn't carry any reptiles at all, they refer all their customers to LLL.

But if this is happening then I think we need to complain to corporate. They need to understand that being good locally isn't enough. They need to understand that every single franchise has to abide by a high standard of care for any animals in their possession.

 

[Pilotman800]

The Heating pad is under the tank and there is 3 inches of dirt on the tank floor so the dirt is just a nice warm feeling. He feels cold to the touch so that is why I used it to supplement his heat. The other veiled is warm to the touch. Why are black lights bad? i am not being contradictory I just want to learn so I don't give customers the wrong info. Should I just use a straight basking light then? What about at night? My house is too cold 70 degrees for no heat at night. I was told they can't see a black light or a red light is that true or does anyone really know I mean we can't ask them.

The UVB light is a Zoo Med 10.0 bulb. Should I use the liquid Vit D3 also I have the sunshine drops that my son use to take. 100IU per drop I
think. I can reread the bottle.

Kris

Ah, I see. We generally don't use heating pads but I'm thinking its okay in this situation.

I would think its just less natural. A normal basking light from a compact bulb represents natural light better than a black light. I don't know if it would have any significant effect, but normal bulbs are very cheap and easy to find, so why not?

At night they need no light. They sleep best in complete darkness. 70 degrees is actually a perfect night temperature. No heat is needed.

10.0 is too strong. You should replace it with a 5.0. Here on this forum, we recommend the Reptisun 5.0. It has proved to be great quality.

Vitamin D3 should only be used twice a month. I may be wrong, but i'm pretty sure 100IU is a very small amount. When we give our chams vitamin D3, we usually buy calcium that has vitamin D3 in the formula. Calcium WITHOUT d3 should be used every day, calcium with vitamin D3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month. To apply these different things, buy the powder and lightly dust the feeders with it.

 

[Elizadolots]

The Heating pad is under the tank and there is 3 inches of dirt on the tank floor so the dirt is just a nice warm feeling. He feels cold to the touch so that is why I used it to supplement his heat. The other veiled is warm to the touch. Why are black lights bad? i am not being contradictory I just want to learn so I don't give customers the wrong info. Should I just use a straight basking light then? What about at night? My house is too cold 70 degrees for no heat at night. I was told they can't see a black light or a red light is that true or does anyone really know I mean we can't ask them.

The UVB light is a Zoo Med 10.0 bulb. Should I use the liquid Vit D3 also I have the sunshine drops that my son use to take. 100IU per drop I
think. I can reread the bottle.

Kris

Normally a night time drop in temps is a good thing. This board recommends a standard incandescent bulb for heat and nothing at night unless it gets below 60 degrees or so (you'll see variations on that, 55, 65, even 50).

However, as he's unwell, I can't help but think keeping him a bit warmer at night is probably a good thing. Can you check your temps? I think you want the night time temp to be at least 10 degrees cooler than the day time temps. They need that change. I suspect it has something to do with their interior clocks.

If the coolest your house gets at night is 70 degrees then he should be fine with that. Even as a sick animal, I would think that was good for a night time temp. But if your house gets below 68 I guess I'd suggest a little something...black light bulbs actually do emit light (that's why your white sneakers glow in them) and I don't know if chameleons can see that light or not. There are "black bulbs" which emit no light and ceramic heaters that screw into light sockets which will give you a light free heat source.

 

[zorygirl]

I am all for complaints to corporate maybe they will eventually listen to the employees that something is wrong. I'm no expert but I do research constantly to learn because lets face it Petco does a crappy job of training it's employees. I am a Avian specialist and now the aquatic specialist but I have had both since I was a small kid. I also owned an exotic bird store but reptiles are weird and I am still new at it 3 year later. For complaints my store number is 1206 in Bellingham WA PLEASE do not use my name in a complaint I do not need to lose my job just before Christmas. I have thought about leaving for the last 3 years but I stay for the animals. BTW We will no longer be ordering Veiled Chameleons at my store because of this. I canceled future orders for as long as I work there. There is no need to have this happen. I do understand that some animals are just prone to it for some reason but we have lost 4 chameleons in 3 years from it! That is human error and NOT acceceptable!

 

[Elizadolots]

I don't know your name...so it would be impossible for me to use it.

Please do stay for the animals. Petco needs you!

 

[sdheli420]

ok im getting the pics in my email..posting soon..

 

[sdheli420]

I am all for complaints to corporate maybe they will eventually listen to the employees that something is wrong. I'm no expert but I do research constantly to learn because lets face it Petco does a crappy job of training it's employees. I am a Avian specialist and now the aquatic specialist but I have had both since I was a small kid. I also owned an exotic bird store but reptiles are weird and I am still new at it 3 year later. For complaints my store number is 1206 in Bellingham WA PLEASE do not use my name in a complaint I do not need to lose my job just before Christmas. I have thought about leaving for the last 3 years but I stay for the animals. BTW We will no longer be ordering Veiled Chameleons at my store because of this. I canceled future orders for as long as I work there. There is no need to have this happen. I do understand that some animals are just prone to it for some reason but we have lost 4 chameleons in 3 years from it! That is human error and NOT acceceptable!

you are awesome, just keep dooing what you are dooing..

ok here are the pics of the lil guy...hope they came out ok...

 

[zorygirl]

So I moved him a bit closer to the heat and he perked up and actually opened his eyes which he hasn't done since yesterday. He is looking at me which is good. That is a HUGE improvement over yesterday and today. I will order a order a Reptisun 5.0 tomorrow for them. I bought what I could grab quick. Tomorrow I will buy a red incandescent bulb instead of the black incandescent bulb I currently have. I suppose my tortoise won't mind the black bulb as much.
He is unable to walk at this point. Tomorrow if he is with me we will be at the vet when they open.

I too have a love hate relationship with Petco. Each Petco sells animals depending on sales and location. Some stores are "right sized" and carry very few if any. But is up the GM's to make the decisions and that is where I get upset. This is my 3rd GM in 4 months. As of yet I am not impressed.

I asked a member to post a picture for me. The Pot the Veiled is in is obviously temporary just to get him warmer. and so the crickets can't dine on him. The basking spot temp is about 85 degrees. He actually looks better or happier maybe? His color is back to bright green and I can see him breathing now and before he was black and I could NOT see him breathing. I had to tickle his foot to make sure he was still with me.

At Petco we give the calcium powder with D3 every day it is Zoo Med brand. This I don't have a lot of options with at work. But our UVB lights suck and are almost a year old (I dated them last time I put them in).

 

[zorygirl]

HE'S MOVING HE'S MOVING! HE IS ACTUALLY UPRIGHT INSTEAD OF LAYING ON HIS SIDE AND BOTH EYES ARE OPEN! fingers are crossed! it is going to be a LOONNNGGG night for me lol! WOO HOO I hope he pulls through.

 

[sdheli420]

So I moved him a bit closer to the heat and he perked up and actually opened his eyes which he hasn't done since yesterday. He is looking at me which is good. That is a HUGE improvement over yesterday and today. I will order a order a Reptisun 5.0 tomorrow for them. I bought what I could grab quick. Tomorrow I will buy a red incandescent bulb instead of the black incandescent bulb I currently have. I suppose my tortoise won't mind the black bulb as much.
He is unable to walk at this point. Tomorrow if he is with me we will be at the vet when they open.

I too have a love hate relationship with Petco. Each Petco sells animals depending on sales and location. Some stores are "right sized" and carry very few if any. But is up the GM's to make the decisions and that is where I get upset. This is my 3rd GM in 4 months. As of yet I am not impressed.

I asked a member to post a picture for me. The Pot the Veiled is in is obviously temporary just to get him warmer. and so the crickets can't dine on him. The basking spot temp is about 85 degrees. He actually looks better or happier maybe? His color is back to bright green and I can see him breathing now and before he was black and I could NOT see him breathing. I had to tickle his foot to make sure he was still with me.

At Petco we give the calcium powder with D3 every day it is Zoo Med brand. This I don't have a lot of options with at work. But our UVB lights suck and are almost a year old (I dated them last time I put them in).

we need more pics, just send em to me ill post em'..he doesent look good, but with your help he may pull through..

p.s any pics you send me that you want posed i will post for you till you and yer man set it up on the computer..

p.s i noticed it says 87 on the temp gauge thats a lil high, he needs that for the basking site, and about 72-78 for ambient..but keep it up, im sure anything you do is better than the death camp he was at..lol