sick baby veiled

[jackschamnewbie]

Chameleon Info:

Veiled, possibly male (has stumps where tarsal spurs may grow) approx 1-2months old and been in my care for 3 days.

Handling - Day 1 the lady that was caring for him was kinda rough with putting him into small pet carrier with screen sides. I furnished it with a fern and sticks for stability and drove like a grandma 15 miles to my home. I placed him in a glass aquarium without handling directly(used a stick and food). I let him settle for a day then moved him to an all screen exo with the same stick method on day 2.
Day 3 I moved him back to the aquarium as he was not eating much and the other slightly larger veiled was bullying him.
Feeding - I am feeding fruit flies, small mealworms, pinhead crickets and small waxworms. Roughly 5-15crickets/day and maybe 2-4 worms/day. I am not counting the fruit flies.
Feeding them early in the morning, mid afternoon and 2 hours before lights out. Feeders are currently gut loaded with the nutrients in the fly culture, the nutrients in the worm medium, and a dry gut load from flukers for daily cricket meal and fresh lettuce, collard greens, spinach, carrot and apple are offered to them 3 hours before feeding.
Supplements - Currently administered a multi vitamin to 3 crickets one of which was eaten by this cham. I have been trying to get them to eat calcium supplemented crickets with little success. Brand is reptivite by exoterra I believe.

Watering - Hand misted, let dry before next misting.
yes the chameleon has been seen drinking.

Fecal Description - Slightly red tinge to the urate between the poo and the white urate, He has never been tested for parasites. Looks like a membrane has formed and dried around the feces that flaked off when I examined it.

History -No history was available

Cage Info: all glass aquarium modified with one wall removed allowing for airflow from the top to the front wall. dimensions are 1.5x2.5x1 (10 gallon aquarium.)

Lighting - 12on 12 off exo 5.0uvb 14W linear 18" and a 40w spot basking bulb 2ft away from basking zone

Temperature - ambient bottom 74 top basking 85ºF lowest night temp was 62ºF measured with a digital probe at the top and two other types of themometors to confirm the bottom gradient.

Humidity - Digital hygrometer reading 40%low-60%high 49%right now, hand misted, live plants, sealed on 4 sides with glass.
Plants - small angels fern and a small well pruned dracaena, not sure of the species.
Placement - Located on a small bamboo desk approx 4ft off ground and not in a direct path of any outside light, air conditioning or traffic. My room is a chameleon and human sanctuary. Top of cage is 4.5 ft from floor and 4ft lower than the tallest enclosure/tree
Location - Foothills of the rocky mountains. Colorado

Current Problem - Poor little guy has be basking with his eyes shut all day, yesterday he was active and feeding. After I seperated him from his sister today he started getting his appetite back and feeding again but is back to napping in the basking zone.

I know that sleeping and eye closing is a sign of illness in jacksons but I do not know if the same criteria of diagnosing a problem is the same with veiled chameleons.

There are over 10,000 lumens in my room and a uvb lamp 4 inches from where he sleeps, I dont understand why he would try and sleep in this area while the lights are on.

Anyone have an idea of what might be going on? I know everyone says get good genetics but I cant see animals in miserable conditions and not have to bring them home :/ please help

 

[jackschamnewbie]

Here are a few pictures of the current set up and where he has been basking/sleeping

 

[MelissaB]

I'm a complete newbie, so I don't have a lot of experience, but is the UV light shining through glass? If so, your little guy isn't getting any UVB rays because they can't go through glass or plastic. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along shortly and help you figure out what's going on with your little guy.

 

[jannb]

I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your baby veiled. I think you have the basking to warm and sometimes the lights will cause them to close their eyes. Try turning off the lights for the rest of today and tomorrow and see if that helps. How's your temps there? If it's not to warm or too cold some outside time would be excellent for him. I'm attaching my blog below for how I care for baby veileds.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...ng-veiled-panther-chameleons.html#comment1721

 

[jackschamnewbie]

I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your baby veiled. I think you have the basking to warm and sometimes the lights will cause them to close their eyes. Try turning off the lights for the rest of today and tomorrow and see if that helps. How's your temps there? If it's not to warm or too cold some outside time would be excellent for him. I'm attaching my blog below for how I care for baby veileds.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...ng-veiled-panther-chameleons.html#comment1721

It has been pretty cold and very rainy so I have resorted to just keeping my windows open with a fan for circulation. Absolutely no sun out today or yesterday. I'll try shutting down the grow lights and see if it improves. What scared me was this morning the light wasn't on and he kept basking in the brightest light, which was a heavily dimmed 40W and technically the ambient light from the my jacksons enclosure... Maybe it was just too dark and he thought it was night. Since I put him in this cage he has been chipping up.

Still a strange silvery green color though.

I pulled the glass off of the side so the top has nothing but a lamp sitting on the walls. No glass or plastic in the way of uvb. There is however plastic sealing the screen to the top and absorbing the radiant heat from the basking bulb though...

 

[jannb]

When I had my baby veileds a few of the people that I let have one bought a new UVB and had it to close to the Cham and it caused them to close their eyes. I always use an older UVB bulb on babies. One that's only putting out 12 to 15 instead of 50+ like a new bulb.

 

[jackschamnewbie]

When I had my baby veileds a few of the people that I let have one bought a new UVB and had it to close to the Cham and it caused them to close their eyes. I always use an older UVB bulb on babies. One that's only putting out 12 to 15 instead of 50+ like a new bulb.

Yea it definitely helped a lot shutting down the grow lamps, He has his eyes open but I wonder if it is because I came back in the room.

Moving the basking lamp even further away and rasing the uvb lamp an inch probably helped a lot.
I dont really have an old uvb bulb, think it is only a 25uvb but I havent been keeping chams long enough to have older equipment, everything is less than 3 months used and this uvb lamp has only been turned on maybe 4-5 times in its lifespan :/ is 25 alright? he is about 5"away from it and looks kinda sad

 

[jannb]

For UV I recommend a Reptisun 5.0.

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, If your dead set on using a aquarium. I would lay it flat and allow the UVB lamp to sit on the screen. This would be a more suitable set up https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...nates-pygmies-any-small-chameleon-part-4.html

Its hard to pin point why his eyes closing as he has only been in your care for 3 days. Things i would do.
1. Keep him separated
2. Well ventilated cage (not a 10 gallon)
3. Well hydrated.
4. If your weather permits. Give him some outside time but not in a 10 gallon.

 

[jackschamnewbie]

Hi, If your dead set on using a aquarium. I would lay it flat and allow the UVB lamp to sit on the screen. This would be a more suitable set up https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...nates-pygmies-any-small-chameleon-part-4.html

Its hard to pin point why his eyes closing as he has only been in your care for 3 days. Things i would do.
1. Keep him separated
2. Well ventilated cage (not a 10 gallon)
3. Well hydrated.
4. If your weather permits. Give him some outside time but not in a 10 gallon.

I think the adjacent grow light was responsible for the eye closing, his change in color I am not so certain about and still concerned by.

I modified the aquarium to allow for plenty of airflow man.
I removed the plastic edging
cut out the top piece of glass
removed the caulking around the seams
cut a piece of plexi glass to fill the space between the uv lamp and the door wish is the screen you see on the front and was formerly the top of the aquarium...

He was really unhappy when it was on its side and would not stop trying to claw his way through the bottom corner of the floor. Idk if you see this a lot but this was a really akward place to see a chameleon.

That behavior has changed after destroying a perfectly good fish tank, just so it could be used standing up and not block the uvb.

There is no material on the inside that he can use to climb out of the top. The basking zone is in the perfect range, UVB lap the perfect distance, humidity is perfect and the usable space is also perfect. This is by far the highest quality environment I have ever produced. The conditions match every piece of information that is available on here and every other chameleon/ reptile related website. The only thing I have not gotten perfect is nutrition, which I am hoping the supplements might help aid. For quarantine, it sure is a real kushy place.


Someone from another site recommended that I go get a small exoterra terrarium, so I took exo's design and built my own.
The lack of drainage concerns me as well, same with the size... Just being only a 2m old chameleon, this is an acceptable size and more than acceptable furnishings and necessities.


Providing vitamins, clean water, uvb/uva radiation and plenty of healthy,clean and stemy plants and vines is the best I can do. His little tank has more fine tuned features then the rest of my builds combined.
The larger exoterra all screen is far to big for him... Like really I did try and he did not do well in a bigger/more ventilated enclosure. It was not until I put him in the modified fish tank that he started to chip up a bit.

His color is improving(still silverfish) and He seems to be more alert... I just hope he keeps it up throughout the night :/ Could malnutrition or specifically a lack of vitamin A be responsible for making their eyes extra sensitive?

I used a curtain rod and a sheet to block the light from reaching her tank and she quit closing her eyes. Just wonder if this might be a cause...

 

[jackschamnewbie]

Hi, If your dead set on using a aquarium. I would lay it flat and allow the UVB lamp to sit on the screen. This would be a more suitable set up https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...nates-pygmies-any-small-chameleon-part-4.html

Its hard to pin point why his eyes closing as he has only been in your care for 3 days. Things i would do.
1. Keep him separated
2. Well ventilated cage (not a 10 gallon)
3. Well hydrated.
4. If your weather permits. Give him some outside time but not in a 10 gallon.

And really, I dont mean to be rude... but being mindful about how I might feel about this. Using the word "dead" in any part of a response to a thread about a sickly chameleon seems wrong.

sorry to be a nag I am just a bit upset and worried.

 

[ataraxia]

Your cage looks like it would have better flow than a exoterra.
1. You cant get rid of a reflection of seeing itself.
2. As you mentioned glass poses a drainage issue.

Malnutrition would most definitely close the eyes.

You came to a open forum for help. Responses may not agree with your ways and they may not be worded the way you may like.