Sick Carpet Chameleon

[sperpich]

Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon – Jackie is about 15 months old (had her that long) and is a female carpet chameleon.
• Handling – Only when necessary...so rarely.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? Crickets What amount? 5 or 6 every other day. What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Flukers cricket gut load and veggies
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Miner-All 3/month, Rep-cal Herptivite 3/month, Rep-Cal regular calcium- give on days she doesn't get others, Re-cal Calcium w/ D3 3/month
• Watering – We have a mister and also hand mist 2-4 times per day. Rarely do we see her drink, but recently she has been with every spray.
• Fecal Description – Brown and white, but its been a while now. She was treated for worms about a week ago when we took her to the vet. She gets her second dose on the 10th.
• History – She’s always been happy and healthy, nothing to speak of until this.

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Screen, 70 gallons.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? T5 bulb, basking light, heat lamp
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? 75 on floor and 86 basking spot and 96 at the very top. These are a few degrees higher than normal since she is sick. Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Temp/humidity gauge. EcoPlus from plant store and Exo-terra from pet store
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? 80 on the bottom and 25 at very top. How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Humidifier, auto sprayers an hand spraying What do you use to measure humidity? Same as temp.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? Yes If so, what kind? Pothos, palms, ficus trees
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Office. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? No. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 7 feet at top
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Wisconsin

Current Problem – A few weeks ago she started laying eggs like she has in the past. She did seem to work at it more this time than in the past. We brought her to the vet last week because she had stopped eating and was extremely thirsty. She was slightly dehydrated at the time so the vet injected her under the skin with some water and gave her a deworming and gave us antibiotics. She said there wasn’t much else she could do since carpet chams are so small. My wife also noticed that day there felt like an egg left inside her yet. She laid 2 that night and hasn’t even tried to since then. She still refuses to eat and her energy is going down little by little each day (without being home I think we are day 12 of not eating). We forced a cricket into her mouth late last week and she ate it, but she spits them out in every attempt since. She hasn’t pooped in all this time either. We gave her a warm bath and let her sit in it for 10 minutes. We’ve done a couple warm showers for 20 minutes each. Yesterday we picked up some Repta-Aid and gave her a little and again today, but a small amount compared to what they recommend. Not sure what else to do, but I’m going to call the vet back after posting this.

 

[sperpich]

The vet was out today, but will call in the morning.

 

[sperpich]

Does anyone have any idea's?

 

[jpm995]

i'm no expert but sounds like she cant pass some eggs. an xray would show this. How experienced is the vet? Sounds like shes guessing on the deworming unless she did a stool check. Maybe a more liquid food like repashey grecko food would be easier for her to keep down. good luck.

 

[Txherp]

Perhaps you should PM Dooley, he breeds carpets

 

[sperpich]

Thanks for the replies and I'll PM Dooley for sure. Still waiting on the vet call...they told me she will call after her morning visits...ugh. She said she does see reptiles frequently, but I didn't get the feeling she was comfortable with it. She talked about doing an xray, but then said there was no reason because there is nothing she can do with the information. She said they are too small to operate on. There is another vet I could try too that I've been considering. She did the deworming because it had never been done on her - definitely a guess there were no stool samples (and now she isn't eating or passing anything anyway). We've continued to give her the repta+boost...just hasn't been a change in her situation, just slowly looking worse. Definitely skinny now too after so long without food.

 

[Alexl]

She talked about doing an xray, but then said there was no reason because there is nothing she can do with the information. She said they are too small to operate on.

They're definitely not (and even if - it would be worth a try instead letting her die). Please take a look for another reptile vet who knows chameleons and how to perform surgey on smaller ones. If your chameleon's eggbound and in slightly poor condition, she'll only has this single chance, otherwise she'll die sadly with the left eggs inside her body. Why was your girl given antibiotics? Were there any symptoms of an bacterial infection which could have produced the whole situation instead of eggs? Otherwise antibiotics would be counterproductive in an eggbound female as the only treatment.

Don't hesitate to call your vet, maybe the call was just forgotten unintentionelly due to some emergency case animals or similar. Can happen on busy days and your chameleon needs proper treatment as soon as possible.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your girl.

 

[sperpich]

Excellent thank you for the info I will call the other vet in town right now (they had better reviews when I looked online, but had no appointments originally). I did call this other vet back since I hadn't gotten a call and that's when I was told she would call after her morning appointments. Here is a picture in case it helps. As you can see she is really starting to look bad over the past couple of days. Also she is trying to hide from me here. We had her trained so well (by feeding) to come to us when we open the door, but after this treatment she now hides when we open the door. The antibiotic was again just a guess since she said there was not much she could do. Anyway, here is the picture. She is this dark when sunning herself (most of the time lately).

 

[sperpich]

So the vet called me back. She said I should add calcium to the force feeding and continue with the showers once or twice per day and also keep up the repta+boost. She reiterated that there is nothing more she could do besides an xray, but even if she does that there is nothing she is able to do with the results.

Now...my wife just told me she put some crickets in for her. Jackie ran right down to get one, but she tries to catch them with her mouth instead of shooting her tongue at them. Is that normal behavior for a sick/weak cham or does it indicate there is something wrong with her tongue?

 

[Alexl]

What you should do is looking for another vet who can handle chameleons, let him/her take an x-ray to clear up whether your chameleon still carries eggs or not and then think about treatment. Hopefully there is another one more experienced with this species in your area to help you.

Calcium only will probably not help to get the eggs out in a weak chameleon, there should always be glucose and vitamins given via injections, too. Chameleons in good condition, who definitely carry eggs, can get Oxytocin (a hormon which can force a female to lay) by a reptile vet afterwards. But you first need to prove there are eggs and she has no anatomical problems or deformed/too big eggs or anything else which could keep her from laying the eggs on her own - by taking an x-ray. If she's not in good condition (as she seems to be in your case!), weak, has stopped digging some days ago etc. there's no other way to save an eggbound female than doing a surgery.

Forcefeeding is not helpful at all in eggbound females. If she cannot shoot, lack of calcium may be one reason, too. They need calcium to lay the eggs as for using their tongue.

 

[sperpich]

Thank you very much for the info and advise! I called the other vet and explained my situation (and the other vet) and they assured me their vet prides herself in reptiles and can help us no matter what size she is. Sure hope that is the case and its not too late. Appointment is tomorrow lunch time. Jackie got a shower again today since she seems to like them.

 

[Elizadolots]

She doesn't look gravid, but maybe she is still retaining some eggs. Was she an adult when you got her or a baby? Is she captive born or wild caught?

 

[Kate]

Any word on your little girl?

 

[sperpich]

Hello! She looked a little better today (but still not good). On our way to the new vet she laid an egg in the little container we had her in! It wasn't very calcified though. The new vet was great and clearly knows what she is doing (Finally found a decent vet!!). She wasn't nearly as concerned about her as we were...she was very thorough and thinks we are doing well in our care of her. She took an xray and thinks there is possibly one more egg to come, but wasn't completely sure. Either way what she was looking at will fit so we should be good. She thinks she is in need of calcium so she gave her an injection for that and gave us some to give her at home (twice daily). She also gave her a vitamin injection and told us to stop the antibiotics. She said she'd like to see us give her 2 wax worms per week minimum to get strength back...she wasn't dehydrated either so that was good to hear. I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff, but it really sounds like she is in need of calcium and should start recovering. She was also willing to operate if she felt it was necessary. Said she hasn't operated on a cham that small, but has done a parakeet and a mouse successfully.

Thanks again for the help everyone and I'll be sure to keep this updated regularly. Its such a relief to not know more than the vet we are trying to get help from.

 

[sperpich]

She doesn't look gravid, but maybe she is still retaining some eggs. Was she an adult when you got her or a baby? Is she captive born or wild caught?

Good to hear! She was not an adult when we got her and she was captive bred so she's gotta be less than 1.5 years old. I'm shocked how many of those relatively large eggs she had in her! Its like a clown car

 

[sperpich]

Just got word from home she laid that last egg! WOOT!

 

[Elizadolots]

Yay! I was asking because they aren't really long lived animals. It sounds like you found yourself a wonderful vet there! What a great resource.

 

[sperpich]

Just a quick note for anyone following...she has been getting her strength back (slowly) and is not sleeping at all during the day. Overall getting better I would say, but now she is closing her left eye so I left a message for the vet. Sorry so brief this time.