Sick Jackson Cameleon, please HELP!!!

[aduncan45]

My boyfriend has been adamant about getting a chameleon for the past month and it didn't help that a friend of his who raises chameleons and the guy at the reptile store told him that they were actually fairly easy to take care of. My bf built a cage and then while I was gone for a few days he got "everything" and set it up and then informed me that he had got the chameleon. When I got back the next day the chameleon was sleeping all day, he had eaten two crickets the day before but that was it and we didn't see him drinking any water from the drip cup. Managed to figure out that he was very dehydrated we gave him a shower and it helped he was at least more active. Since my bf didn't get a humidifier we were spraying him a lot. Since I didn't know anything about chameleons at the point in time I let my bf sleep with the window open and the fan on thinking that the chameleon would be fine with its heat lamp. The next morning we woke up and he was worse than before his eyes were sunken in and starting to slightly turn brown it took me four hrs of spraying him before he recovered enough to open his eyes and start moving. I had to do it for two hrs and then I needed a new way to spray him so I put him back in the cage and then put him back in the bathroom and did the other two hrs. I think he was ok the first time a little scared and cautious but the second time was to much. We put a cover over two thirds of the cage and just left a spot for a little air flow. When I was going to bed I looked at his cage and his head was just barely poking out around the cover, when he saw me move his head slowly dissapeared. I spent the next two hrs watching him, if he saw even one of my eyes looking at him he would slowly go back behind the cover. I managed to do the same type of thing just peaking the corner of my eye over my sholder and watch him watching us sleep.

Since then he has been a little more active and gotten a little more comfertable around us but he still wont eat and he doesn't drink unless we give him a shower, which we are doing daily because were still having a few problems keeping him hydrated. He wont eat crickets because he wont hunt for them and u cant make them stay in one spot but still have them move enough to get his attention. He did eat two meal worms yesterday, he practically ran to get the first one and then ate one later too but today we just noticed that he recently threw them up.

At the moment he is in a makeshift home because we had to fix his original cage because it was going to start molding from all of the water if we didn't. We made a humidifier to go on top of his cage and got digital thermometers so we'd know the exact temp and humidity and then got the correct heat lamp bulb. The original spray bottle wasn't working out so we bought a pump sprayer which works wonderfully. We still have to pick him up to take him into the bathroom to give him a shower, he's gotten used to me enough that he doesn't mind me doing things around him and trying to rearrange is space so it works better just as long as I move slow enough he doesn't mind at all unless he was recently scared. He will even let my hand get close enough to pick him up but he just doesn't like actually being picked up, but when I put him on my shirt to climb on he calms down. I know he really doesn't like to be picked up but theres really no other way to move him to give him a shower.
There are pics below of him and his temporary home.

I've always been a big animal person and will always put the animals needs before my own and get rather pissed at people who don't, I've also always been more of a quiet person most of the time. My boyfriend is the exact opposite he isn't used to being that quiet or that patient so he'll do something and accidentally scare the chameleon. To give him credit he has been a lot more quiet and patient, but its still reverses at least part of the progress I make with the chameleon.

We are almost positive he is sick because of stress, but is there anything to do about his not eating or drinking, because he will drink in the shower and he did drink after we rehydrated him the first time. We called the place we got him from and they told us that along with the stress he probably couldn't eat the meal worms because they only fed him crickets at the store. I'm really running out of ideas other than taking him to the vet because he hasn't eaten in 6 days now. I really didn't want to take him back because the place that sold him to us really new nothing about chameleons, we wouldn't be having near the problems that we are having if they did, so I would rather try and give him a really good home instead of taking him back, but with the start we've had I'm not sure if its going to work.

I would greatly appreciate any help or general advice every little bit helps.

* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Zoo Meds Nature Sun 18" 15W and Zoo Med Nightlight Red Reptile Bulb 100W (He would only move out from under the closest spot to the heat lamp for a little while). The UVA comes on at 9am and goes off at 9pm and we leave the heat lamp on all the time.

*Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
We have two digital thermometers one for the basking spot and one for the coolest spot, but due to having to redo the cage we only have one thermometer in use. We put it at the same level that he mostly stays at, its normally

* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
The thermometers are are also hygrometers we typically keep it in the 70's and try to keep it in the mid 60's at night, but no lower than 60.

* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
At the moment no but when we get the cage done we would like to put one in.

* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
At the moment it is on the bedroom floor. We only turn the ceiling fan on low at night. We try to be in the room as little as possible and when we are I am almost silent and my bf is quiet. We are also thinking of moving him into the bathtub so we don't have to move him again till his cage is done and then there would be no foot traffic at all. I really don't want to move him again but I guess we will still have to move him for his showers if we leave him where he is.
When we finish the cage it will sit on a table about 2ft off the ground and the top of the cage would be about 5ft

* Location - Where are you geographically located?
Eugene Oregon

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon?
Jackson Chameleon, Male, we aren't sure of the age because my bf didn't ask.

* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
We only do it when we take him to the bathroom for a shower, we try to keep it to once a day or once in the morning and once at night so he can calm down in between. (but once I start to spray him he gets really happy and a lot of his stress goes away)

* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
He has yet to eat anything that has been dusted but we have Fluker's Calcium with Vitamin D3.

* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use?
We have a 1 gallon pump sprayer.

* Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
No

* History – We got the chameleon at Reptile Kingdom in Eugene OR on June 5th.

This is him


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This is his temporary home


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This is the structure he stays in, he's always on top of the white part (you can actually see him in the top left) he never goes down into it.


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This is the top. There's the lights the drip cup and the black tube with the white cap is part of the humidifier.


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I'm sorry if this is insanely long but I would rather give to many details then not enough.
I don't know if there are any spelling or grammar errors, if there are and it really bothers you I'm sorry but I really would rather worry about the chameleon. (previous problems with posts)

 

[Olimpia]

Lets see if I remember to cover everything!

There really shouldn't be a red light during the night. Apparently chameleons can see the color red, so he probably isn't sleeping very well due to the light (they like it as dark as possible). Also, Jackson's are a mountain species and love cooler temperatures, so a nighttime drop in temperature is great for his over all health. They can stand it up to 50* so don't worry about him getting too cold at night. And during the day it should not be over 80-84*. A 100 w bulb is probably way to hot! A normal household bulb 40 w bulb will do just fine.

Jackson's shouldn't be supplemented as much as other species, and D3 should only be given once nearly every two months. They get sick really easily from too much supplementation.

Also, he'll feel much more comfortable up high somewhere and off the floor. It's sheer terror for chameleons to be below us, because they think we're going to eat them!

A vet will be more capable of telling you what is wrong and fixing it quickly though. I suggest taking him to an exotic animal vet (I'd call all of them and see if any have experience with chameleons, because most don't.)

Hope that helps some!

 

[kinyonga]

First of all, he looks like he's not in bad condition...but your cage leaves an awful lot to be desired as does your husbandry. IMHO you need to make a lot of changes quickly.

You said you use..."Zoo Meds Nature Sun 18" 15W and Zoo Med Nightlight Red Reptile Bulb 100W (He would only move out from under the closest spot to the heat lamp for a little while). The UVA comes on at 9am and goes off at 9pm and we leave the heat lamp on all the time."...neither of these lights provide UVB which the chameleon needs. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear tube fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0. For a basking bulb all you need is a regular incandescent household light bulb in a metal hood. The wattage should be determined by the temperature it produces...for Jackson's IMHO it should be in the low 80's. There should be no need for any "light" at night...and there is only a need for a heat source if the temperature in your room drops below 65F. The red light may be affecting him since its not a natural color for light.

Exposure to UVB either from a proper UVB bulb or from direct sunlight. The light from either should not pass through glass or plastic. UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system.

You said that you have thermometers but you didn't say what the temperatures are in the basking area or the rest of the "cage" or at night.

IMHO the cage should not be on the floor but raised up several feet....and the "temporary cage" you are using is not suitable at all. He needs a proper cage IMHO.

How long is his body? From the horns, he looks like he's an adult.

Since most insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus, its important to dust the insects at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.

Dusting twice a month lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder will ensure that it gets some D3 and leaves it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and cause problems but D3 produced from exposure to UVB should not as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants/needs too.

Dusting twice a month lightly with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A should also help. Beta carotene (prOformed) sources of vitamin A will not build up in the system like prEformed sources will....but its not known if all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene...so some people give a little prEformed once in a while. Excess prEformed vitamin A may prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD....so prEformed vit. A needs to be used with great caution.

I realize you said he hasn't been eating...but this information is important anyhow.

If he's WC its possible he has parasites...a fecal would determine if he did.

I hope that you will make changes and I hope that they will improve his appetite.

 

[xanthoman]

in all seriousness

hi there, not to steal summuner12s excellent post from another thread, but, rather than do some massive write up, imho, i would s**t can everything and set up like post #3 in this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/jackson-unexpectedly-gave-birth-help-42373/ until you are able to get a real cham cage, a real lineal reptisun 5.0 and a real 15-25w normal incandescent house bulb for basking. a dripper and a digital thermometer/hygrometer, thats all you need, everything else is uneccessary. turn everything off at night and time to start studying chameleon husbandry. the reality is its not practical for us to try and teach you the entire subject of chameleon husbandry in a single post. i would start here https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/216-maybe-you-shouldnt-have-chameleon.html and here https://www.chameleonforums.com/basic-husbandry-38769/ and here http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/pettys/jacksons_care.html any cage that has had mold problems, particularly black mold (stachybotrys) is bound to cause problems. i wouldnt give him anything other than plain calcium 2x weekly and calcium with d3 1x monthly. until you have a better understanding of some of the issues, https://www.chameleonforums.com/supplementation-mbd-1-a-2451/index6.html here are a few basic pointers, turn everything off at night, he likes it cool, and he likes it dark and undisturbed he will be most comfortable if his basking spot is above eye level. jacksons are sensitive to over supplementation after about 2 months, i would use a light dusting of repashy supermin for a multivite (contains low doses of both prefomed and proformed vitaminA) and probably safer than using herptivite. like kinyonga says , if you got him at a reptile show probably a good idea to have a vet visit and a fecal. jmo

 

[aduncan45]

I did get one of the bulbs wrong it isn't "Zoo Meds Nature Sun 18" we cant find the actual box but it is 5% UVB.
We just found out that he's about 2 months old and he is very skinny and doesn't move around almost at all.

I have been reading everything I can find almost non stop when I have time but between reading all that, keeping him alive, and trying to get his cage done is taking all my time. I will put his health above everything else because he cant take care of himself but sadly its also killing my health.

I'm think I'm going to finding a good reptile rescue place to take him so he can be happy and have all the things he needs. Going through a major crash course starting with all the basics is really just making him suffer till we get it all figured out.

Thanks a lot for all the advice though.

 

[laurie]

Where are you located? We can most likely help locate a good place for him. Either a rescue place or one of us on the forum will step up. Just don't give up until he has a appropriate home. With a bit of luck you can get him rehomed within a couple of days.

 

[serenitystarlite]

What is your red light sitting on? That whole set up looks like a fire waiting to happen with with the blanket. I would definitely scrap the red light. What are you temps like? I didn't see them posted.

 

[aduncan45]

I'm in Eugene OR.

The red light is sitting on two pieces of wood spaced as far apart as they can be and the blanket doesn't touch the lamp.

His basking spot is in the 80's normally around 83* and the rest is around 73* or so and drops to the 60's at night if it gets cold outside (Its been really warm and humid for the last couple of weeks) We keep the ceiling fan on low when the humidifier isn't on so the air will circulate.

 

[aduncan45]

Actually my boyfriend refuses to give him up. He is an egotistical ass hole who can't admit when he's wrong.
If someone would make a better argument than I can please do. I refuse to sit and watch him kill the Cham but at the same time I'm refusing to bail him out anymore since he's doing nothing towards learning about how to care for the Cham and its just killing my health trying to get it all figured out. Sorry if it sound like I'm just complaining, but I'm out of options other than just leaving him with it and saying good luck if I cant convince him to give the Cham up.
Here's his results for "Maybe you shouldnt have a chameleon"

If the idea of touching bugs makes you even a little uneasy - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If you want a pet that you can hold, touch or play with - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If your chameleon research was done at a pet store - A Chameleon Isnt Yet For You
He was going to go out and buy it less than 3 days after he started thinking about it.

If you think youre going to make money breeding - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If youre the type to ask for advice, then ignore anything you dont like, fail to actually read all the info and links provided, or seek only those opinions that agree with what you already believed - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If you think of non-human animals as less important than human animals - A Chameleon Isnt For You He dose care about the cham but he wont lose sleep for it or miss work if it needs help.

If you dont have much money (at least $1000 kept in savings for vet trips) or if you are generally "cheap" - A Chameleon Isnt For You He lives from paycheck to paycheck and sells things so he can make due. He dose have access to a trust fund but his ego wont let him ask his parents for help. He wont take the Cham to the vet because he doesn't see why, its expensive, and he's still ok.

If you dont yet have a job - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If you dont know that all animals poop - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If you dont yet know of a good exotics vet in your area that knows about chameleons - A Chameleon Isnt yet For You Yesterday he finally looked up vets online but thats it, never actually called them.
He did call the guy who sold him to us who said that the Cham is probably fine just leave some crickets in with him, when he gets hungry he'll eat them. (I left the Cham alone for about 5 min with a cricket in front of him to see if he'd eat it, when I came back I had to flick the cricket off of him because it was bitting him)

If the nearest good exotics vet that knows about chameleons is several hours away and that seems too far for rountine check-ups - A Chameleon Isnt For You Still don't know for sure where one is.

If you dont yet know what type of enclosure is best for your climate is - A Chameleon Isnt yet For You

If you dont yet know what a dripper is - A Chameleon Isnt yet For You

If you want to have a waterfall in your cage - A Chameleon Isnt For You
Would have bought one if I hadn't told him to look up info on them

If you think crickets are fine to feed to the lizard all the time, and you really dont need to offer anything else hardly at all if ever - A Chameleon Isnt For You

If you havent yet read as much as you can (hours and hours) regarding and learning about Vitamin A, Oxalic Acid, Goitrogen, Calcium, etc - A Chameleon Isnt yet For You
Yeah spent an hr reading in general and decided that he knew enough to manage and then he'd learn as he goes along.

If you are in high school - A Chameleon Isnt yet For You.

If you dont have much space - A Chameleon Probably Isnt For You Lives in a tiny apartment that has a hard time fitting both of us let alone a Cham.

And the last major one he doesn't know how to clean. He will cut meat on the counters and then not wash his hands or clean the counter. If he dose wipe the counters down he just takes a wet sponge and wipes it off. The same with every other room in the house, there is no doubt in my mind the Cham will end up sick because of all the bacteria in the house.

If someone else who knows more will please post a better argument so maybe I can get through to him I would be greatly appreciate it. He really need a wake up call but since he won't take it from me maybe he'll listen to someone else. Otherwise I have to just accept that the Cham won't make it very long and I really don't want to do that if I don't have to.

 

[xanthoman]

its one thing to want a chameleon, its another to be willing to do what it takes to keep them healthy. keeping chameleons is not like keeping ordinary pets. even experienced keepers with considerable knowledge sometimes have difficulty. its not likely that somebody will be sucssesful long term, without buying the required equipment, and doing the neccessary research. many new keepers start out just like that, sadly enough it often takes the death of a chameleon or two for them to admit that they need to get serious about keeping chams or get out of keeping chams. your bf may not lose any sleep over it. but either way, the situation doesnt sound that promising for the cham. jmo

 

[Elizadolots]

Not to change the subject or cause problems....but maybe you want to reconsider his status as "boyfriend"....just a thought.

Maybe you can change your view from "bailing him out" to "bailing the helpless chameleon" out?

It sort of sounds like you don't share living space...maybe you can suggest he keep the chameleon at your place? that would make it easier for you to do what the animals needs. It does not have to cost loads of money. If you can get the basic set up so it's good, maybe he can find satisfaction from feeding it the "icky" bugs? (which, of course, you will have been caring for and gut loading...but let him think you're too squeamish to feed them to the chameleon and he'll likely think he's the only reason the animal lives)

I will say that a lot of chameleon owners, and very likely some who were involved in drawing up that list, learned "on the fly" and while it's very noble to want to prevent others from making the same mistakes that cost chameleons their lives (I know I've learned by losing) it's also a tad like ex-smokers putting down smokers....learning on the fly does happen. You don't seem to think he's going to step up to the plate, but you seem capable.

 

[aduncan45]

Not to change the subject or cause problems....but maybe you want to reconsider his status as "boyfriend"....just a thought.

Maybe you can change your view from "bailing him out" to "bailing the helpless chameleon" out?

It sort of sounds like you don't share living space...maybe you can suggest he keep the chameleon at your place? that would make it easier for you to do what the animals needs. It does not have to cost loads of money. If you can get the basic set up so it's good, maybe he can find satisfaction from feeding it the "icky" bugs? (which, of course, you will have been caring for and gut loading...but let him think you're too squeamish to feed them to the chameleon and he'll likely think he's the only reason the animal lives)

I will say that a lot of chameleon owners, and very likely some who were involved in drawing up that list, learned "on the fly" and while it's very noble to want to prevent others from making the same mistakes that cost chameleons their lives (I know I've learned by losing) it's also a tad like ex-smokers putting down smokers....learning on the fly does happen. You don't seem to think he's going to step up to the plate, but you seem capable.

Yeah at the moment we are very very much on the ex-boyfriend side of the scale unless things change, most of the time he comes to his senses and admit when hes wrong but for some reason he won't this time.
I would happily take the Cham but I know I cant take care of him, I have no money and no income, very little space, and I put way to much of myself into these kind of things especially when I get thrown into them and have to play catch up. I end up getting to the point were I make myself physically sick because I neglecting my own needs. In short I care too much.
Also when I try to do something he tries to contradict me, but I can back my opinion up with facts and he cant. Trying to deal with that daily is very very grating. As he said "He bought it. It is his pet". I know I most likely wont make a difference but I'd hate myself if I didn't try.

 

[Elizadolots]

Then, I think the thing to do is line up adoptive owners from the board and then try to make him view the chameleon as a problem that he doesn't want to deal with.

Maybe print out pages and pages of "how to's" for him.

I don't know...it's his animal and if he chooses to be an asshole, then I guess he gets to.

I don't suppose you could present the idea that you are, in fact, jealous of the time he would need to care for the chameleon correctly (having the pages and pages of "how to" in hand)...You couldn't present it as "it or me"...? Is it evil of me to suggest that?

Could you tell him "either you let me find this thing another home or I'm out of here!"? Again, I apologize if that is evil.

 

[Carlton]

Man I really HATE HATE HATE even suggesting that you let his poor chameleon die, but it may be the only thing that makes a dent (or realize he'll lose you too). One other remote idea that could get him off his ass is to show him videos or pics of healthy active jackson's... maybe he'll realize that if he wants one of those cool looking predators instead of the miserable immobile creature he has now he's got to do something. Yeah I hate convincing someone like this that the only reason to provide responsible care for an animal is because of it's "cool" factor.

Good luck and don't berate yourself too much if you can help it. WE know who's doing the right thing!

 

[FFSTRescue]

Maybe it is time for him to receive a reality check by involving animal control. Sometimes having a humane investigator talk to him about this form of "abuse" (which it is, people can argue away, but it is) is enough to wake someone up. Don't be emotional about this, use logic and realize that an animal is suffering very painfully, and it is illegal to abuse animals. If you are afraid of ruining your relationship, tell him someone else found out and is going to report him. He doesn't seem to care about the chameleon, maybe he will care about himself enough to not want to get in trouble. You sound very sweet, stay that way, and take care of that chameleon. I don't have the stand-back-and-watch approach involving animals anymore. I take action if I see someone is doing something wrong, I don't care who that person is. I have reported family before, so I have been there. It is not fair for an animal to suffer.

 

[aduncan45]

His biggest problem is that he's very ADHD and so he thinks that he's doing what he should but in reality he either did it incredibly half ass'ed or wrong all together. As long as I was there to do it for him he wasn't going to do anything about taking responsibility.
He did end up picking the Cham over me. Which honestly I have a very big problem with irresponsible pet owners so I'm definitely not losing any sleep over the relationship part.
He really dose like the Cham and for all I know he may start to actually step up now that I'm not there to do it. He dose have the cage finally set up and he says the Cham ate 3 crickets the other day so at least hes starting to go in a slightly better direction for caring for it, it may not be the 100% like I'd hope for but it is better than it was.
Trying to determine if someone will be a bad pet owner is kind of like trying to stop someone from becoming a criminal before they actually commit the crime, there is no way to fully tell which direction he will end up. If I do hear that the Cham does get worse in anyway due to human error I'll deffenetly be reporting it. I would be more likely to report the pet store owner who let someone take a pet home without giving them any information what so ever, but so far were the only case I know of that has had a problem like this, everyone else I know has had no problems and highly recommends the store. My ex called about the Cham and explained the not eating, not drinking, that he didn't move all that much, and what not. The guy told him that the Cham's probably fine and to leave some crickets in with the Cham and he'd eat them when he was hungry and he'll only drink from the drip cup every few days and so my ex didn't really need to fill it every day, about the worst advice you could give in my opinion when you don't know whats wrong.
I hate to do the stand back and watch approach but if I don't make myself stand back sometimes I put to much of myself into it. I finally realized that I actually cant do everything and if I don't actually take care of myself I cant do anything, its hard to accept but I've learned the hard way. Learn to pick your battles.

 

[Elizadolots]

Well, I congratulate you for the effort you've put into this. I agree with you that it's time for you to step back. Do not let the chameleon be a device he uses to keep you involved.

Sadly, the chameleon may suffer. However, that's just what will happen and you've gone way further than most women would under the circumstances. We can hope he'll see the light.

 

[ajacobson]

Adopt the cham to someone who will give 100% to it (there are plenty of folks on this forum who would), tell your b/f that it died. Then buy him a pet rock or chia pet or goldfish (those things live through everything). I know that sounds bad, but I HATE when people seemingly refuse to take responsibility for their "babies".


edit: sounds like you broke up, guess my plan won't work. sorry!

 

[FFSTRescue]

You did make a difference. From the way it sounds, he has changed how he cares for the chameleon, though slightly, but it is a change, and that is because of you. Even a little bit of effort can go a long way, and I applaud you for that, and the chameleon is grateful as well. If you didn't get through to him completely, you got through to him enough that he knew he needed to change some things. You have a kind soul, stay that way and continue to help animals, even if it is one at a time

 

[chamlover]

Wow. First, congrats to you for trying and to alot of other forum members for some great advice. And Carlton, chams are cool, so if you need to use the "cool" thing, and it works, great. We all own chams because we think they're cool, as long as they are healthy, they're cool. Not so much when they get sick. The only other thing i can add is that chams don't generally show illness unless they are REALLY ill; and usually once they show signs they can go downhill extremely quickly. While dogs and cats can be sick for days and weeks and still recover after vet treatment, chams cannot. If you don't get a sick cham to the vets, or make the necessary changes immediately, it will be too late. Period. I personally wouldn't take the change and would call animal control. If he has made the changes, then awesome, no one gets hurt. If he hasn't, then he will be FORCED too. I WOULD NOT sit back and let him kill it. IMHO. I run a repitle rescue, as others do on this forum, and i get very upset when i hear stories like this. That poor cham is suffering needlessly!!!!! If you really feel for this animal then do what is right and report him. Like i said, if he's made the changes, then no one loses. I'm up nursing a female panther now at 3 am because she wasn't properly cared for and will most likely die. If she would have been brought to me earlier, she would have had a better chance of survival. Getting more worked up than i thought i would. Sorry, but i love these animals and would do WHATEVER it took to correct the situation. Going to bed now, got to get back up in another 2 hours to feed her again.