Silkworms and supplements?

[Syreptyon]

Hey everyone! This is my first post here

I really want to get a veiled chameleon (male) because they're...incredible. (My problem is my parents ) If I got one, it would be one of Mike's (Flchams) juveniles from his astounding Newton (if there are any left). I've done a whole lot of research on them and I think I'm ready

If I were to get one, I think I would use silkworms as his staple. I've read a bunch of posts here about cricket-alternatives and silkworms have been a top candidate quite often.

So my main question is: How would I use supplements on the silkworms? Is it just like crickets? And how often should I do this? If I can get a veiled, it would be a male juvenile, so probably around 4 months or older, if that changes anything. And also, how many would you recommend I feed him?

Thanks a lot in advance! I've read some posts like this one, but I really wanted to get some info specifically for my situation

 

[dodolah]

Silkies are one of the great staple feeder.
But, the idea is providing him variety feeder as much as possible.
So, don't completely shun cricket as you will soon learn that sometimes chameleon can crave them.
Supplementing should be somewhat similar.

Go ahead and go to link directory in the forum for good care sheets.

Hey everyone! This is my first post here

I really want to get a veiled chameleon (male) because they're...incredible. (My problem is my parents ) If I got one, it would be one of Mike's (Flchams) juveniles from his astounding Newton (if there are any left). I've done a whole lot of research on them and I think I'm ready

If I were to get one, I think I would use silkworms as his staple. I've read a bunch of posts here about cricket-alternatives and silkworms have been a top candidate quite often.

So my main question is: How would I use supplements on the silkworms? Is it just like crickets? And how often should I do this? If I can get a veiled, it would be a male juvenile, so probably around 4 months or older, if that changes anything. And also, how many would you recommend I feed him?

Thanks a lot in advance! I've read some posts like this one, but I really wanted to get some info specifically for my situation

 

[beeze]

You would need to use crickets or dubia along with your silkworms. Chameleons need to eat a variety of feeders. Yes, you can dust silkworms. Have you read the Raising Kitty Blog? That gives some great info on raising veileds. www.raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.com

 

[Cainschams]

dodolah is definatly right. Variety is the key. Most of us use roaches, crickets and silkies for a staple along with many other insects as treats. Silkies will only eat the chow that is made especially for them. Gutloading is a must to keep your guy healthy. This is why we use crix and roaches because they will eat anything and devour it making a nice plump feeder full of nutrition. You can buy commercial gutloads like flukers but it only has very little of anything in it. There is a member on the forums that sells a gutload with more of a variety of things or you can make your own.

 

[Syreptyon]

All right, thanks everyone! I definitely intend to use a variety of feeders--silkworms as most prominent if you think that's okay. The issue with the crickets is that my parents won't let me keep them in the house because of their noise, smell, and potential to escape. It is very cold where I live at the moment (Minnesota), but I would absolutely be using crickets when it warms up and I could keep them in our garage. For the moment, I would probably use silkworms, roaches, and superworms as an occasional treat because I've read that they are rather fatty. Does that sound good or should I add something more? Would hornworms be a good addition?

And yes, I have definitely read the Raising Kitty blog--one of the first things I did after finding this site.

So do you have any opinions on how many feeders would be a good amount to feed? I've been having trouble finding an amount for silkworms

 

[jannb]

It depends on the age at to how much they eat. Have you checked the Classified section here on the Forums? Julirs has some beautiful, healthy male veileds for sale and they are about 5 months old.......a good age for your first chameleon. Allot of members here have been buying her babies, I see them posting pics and all all the time. Jann

 

[sttines]

Here is my take on all of your concerns. Silkworms as one of a few staples will get expensive for you. Even raising your own to multiple generations will take lots of time, patience, effort, and money. Summer is a good season for this because of the availability of fresh mulberry leaves and I would bet there are some in your neighborhood. The chow you need in the winter will grow these worms but at a bit slower pace and will cost you a tremendous amount of money to get to enough generations to be of use. You'll always be buying silkworms and sometimes everyone is out of them. You'll need back up feeders and should have them anyway for variety and nutrition.

As long as you have a chameleon inside your house, you WILL have the occasional bug get loose. It is part of the package. Don't think superworms and roaches can't find their way around because they can and will. The parent situation will not be an easy one to overcome because sooner or later, they will find out. Crickets don't smell if you clean the bin 2-3x a week but adults do chirp and all sizes do escape. If you have a garage it may be too cold for crickets in the winter. A basement is a better place.

Lastly, there are the very odd chameleons out there that just won't touch a silkworm. Not many but occasionally you come across one. OR the cham will like them one month and hate them for the next 2. What will you do then? You'll have to have a variety of feeders. Chameleons will always look at something moving and silkworms don't really move. If the chameleon likes them, that doesn't matter as long as they can see them but an insect moving catches their eye very quickly. Don't forget about flies for a younger veiled. And adult may not care for them too much and their size is not enough nourishment. A 4 month old will love them. Flies will get out, too.

You'll need to carefully consider variety and escaping bugs. Even one chameleon needs boxes and buckets of various insects in quantities. One reason so many of us graduate to multiple animals.

 

[Syreptyon]

That was really helpful, sttines--good things for me to think about. I'm not too worried about the cost, but once its warm again I would definitely try to use fresh mulberry leaves. I have heard that silkworms get sold out of pretty often, so that definitely worries me. And I'll certainly have back-up feeders like dubias and I'll have crickets while its warm.

And you're definitely right about them escaping. I've been talking to some of my relatives that own a fair number of reptiles and they say whatever the feeder, it'll escape some time. But I don't think that is a big deal for feeders other than crickets because they won't hide around my house and chirp incessantly. That's the big thing about the crickets my parents don't like.

I'm definitely glad you mentioned that some chams won't eat silkworms. I haven't read about that problem until now and that's definitely something to keep in mind. I have heard, however, that they can get weird about their food and randomly decide they don't like things for a while. That definitely enforces my want for dubias as well. And I hadn't really thought about flies, but I'll definitely look into them!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Welcome to the forums Syreptyon

Try to rotate the feeders you offer as much as possible, with as much variety as possible. Along with the silkworms, dubias and superworms, include crickets when you can, as well as hornworms, butterworms, flies, other roaches, stick insects, moths, occasional mealworms or waxworms, etc

As mentioned by others, you may find offering primarily silkworms wont work out very well. They can be expensive. What you can gutload them with is limited. Some chameleons dont enjoy them, and while most Do like them, even they will get bored eating them all the time. Also, silkworms dont offer and crunch - meaning roughage. I suspect chameleon digestion, like ours, works best when it includes some "fibre".

If your parents are okay with dubias or other roaches, try to offer those as often as the silkworms, with occasional gutloaded crickets and superworms, and things will be okay.

If the primary issue with the crickets is the chirping, there are two solutions. The first will work well for a young chameleon - buy small crickets. Little crickets dont chirp. But you'll have to offer more of them and so you may end up having to buy and pay for twice as much.
The second option is Time consuming, but it works. Im assuming you are buying in Small quantity, like 20 or fewer large crickets at a time from a local store, since you plan to use primarily Silkworms and Dubias. As soon as you get home with the crickets, go into the bathroom, put the bucket or whatever your crickets will live in into the bathtub. Then dump in the crickets. The bathtub is a precaution against escapees while you take care of the important silencing step: Pick up each male cricket, and with a small pair of scissors cut off their wings.
I know this sounds crazy, but I've done it and it works. I had in-laws coming to visit, and the chameleon room is directly next to the bedroom in which they would be sleeping. I'm pretty much immune to the sound of crickets. And in the summer the crickets live in the garage. But it was Winter. The inlaws were coming for Christmas. And I was already considered the "strange" one with the reptiles. I didnt really need my inlaws thinking about bugs in the next room all night! So I got my scissors, and I spent about an hour cutting off the chirping wings of 100+ crickets. And it worked. The poor, frustrated crickets were quiet but otherwise unharmed.

 

[Syreptyon]

Oh, great idea, Sandra! Thanks a lot I never would have thought of cutting the wings off, but that makes sense. Is it very hard to do?

 

[Clifford]

Its not hard to do if you have a steady hand.
I always remove the chirping wings off of male crickets, otherwise i would be single! I have two buckets - one with the new crickets (I only buy a few dozen at a time) and one awaiting the quiet crickets. I pick up a new cricket, if female it goes direct to the other bucket. if male, I snip off its wings with a tiny pair of scissors (I think these might be eyelash or fingernail scissors I "borrowed" permanently from my better half!) and then into the other bucket he goes. The crickets still attempt to chirp if you leave even a little wing on them, the poor buggers.