Substrate is it an issue

[Boldie]

Has anyone ever actually had and problems or health issues with using substrate? Everyone always says don’t use substrate but in the wild it’s not as if the Cham’s have spotless clean floors that someone comes in and cleans every day for them.

I have substrate in the bottom of my viv and don’t find any problems with it. I clean his poop out every day so there won’t be any bacteria build-up. And it helps keep the humidity. My Cham is in a Exo Terra so can’t get any drainage in it so the substrate helps soak up any excess water. I then have a heat mat under the viv that evaporates the water in the substrate and keeps the viv nice and humid.

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

I just wouldn't do it, there is a chance of them catching it while there feeding and if they do it can be really harmful,just not worth it in my mind, and u say u have a heat mat underneath that evaporates all the water? But.. When ur misting your cage ur also misting all the dirt off and poop and stuff i know u say u clean but with there being substrate how do u kno if bits of poop hasn't fallen to the bottom ? Or he's pooed and uve mist it? so it will have Bacteria in it and its going into your substrate surely over time there will be bacteria build up?? and that will make the water go all stinky and stuff an if ur evaporating that then its not good for your cham to be breathing that in you will end up with a RI sooner or later surely??? And i kno u can say well all the water evaporates from the ground in the wild, but the chams can move from place to place if the air isn't good?? Im quite interested on what people would say on this too...oh and i dont mean that in a nasty way im sure ur cham is very happy and u look after him well

 

[camimom]

we dont use substrate for several reasons.

as was stated- they can ingest it, never good.

you stated that they dont have clean floors in the wild, but they also dont go to the ground as much i nthe wild, since they can just stay in the trees to eat.

why risk it?

 

[Kmw]

I started with some substrate purely because i thought it looked better. But its impractical. With how much moisture is in there it gets gross pretty quick. And i dont want my babies getting sick!

 

[Ruganut]

When I first got Ringo, I had substrate in the bottom of his viv. Then I saw him pick up some substrate with his lunch. He wasnt able to spit it out and swallowed it. For me it was just too much of a risk so I removed all the substrate (and built a different enclosure, but thats a different story ).

I also have to agree with Kmw, the amount of water from misting really made it a pain to maintain - for me anyway . Although a bare bottom (of the enclosure ) doesnt really look as nice, imo it's much better for you and your cham in the long term

 

[Wykd]

How about substrate under non digestible media?

I like the substrate idea for humidity and live plants, but wondered about putting down some river rocks or flat glass marbles? They don't look bad, allow drainage and a barrier between substrate and the habitat?

Wouldn't cleanup be handled via water from misting or regular habitat cleaning, or is it to much work? I ask because I had seen some habitats where the person had basically done the river rocks over soil.

 

[camimom]

We all do river rocks over soil for this reason.


Many of us use live plants which helps with humidity, but to keep our babies from eating dirt, we put rocks on it.

 

[Wykd]

Cool, I was looking at doing that in as well in the new setup I am planning but was on the fence on it. I was concerned about free range food getting under the rocks and drown when misting occurred, and the bacteria from decomposition which would surely happen. But could go cup feeding route if needed.

We all do river rocks over soil for this reason.


Many of us use live plants which helps with humidity, but to keep our babies from eating dirt, we put rocks on it.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Yes, people have had chameleons die from ingesting substrate and becoming impacted. Luckily it doesn't happen all too often, but when it does it is terrible.

Wykd - river rocks are okay if they are large enough that a chameleon cannot eat them. I would never use those flat marble pebbles because those are just the right size that if your chamelen accidentally picked one of those up while hunting that could be a serious choking hazard, and a major impaction hazard. Since those are hard they would have a difficult time working their way back it of the system. Do not use those.

On the subject of using lots of rocks - I have a little pile of river rocks in my veileds cage to hide the bottom of his branches for aesthetic purposes. First of all, I had to take out any white or shiny rocks because my cham thought those were shiny from being wet and would always try to eat them. They were bigger than his head so he never could, but he tried all the time until I took them out. Also I have to clean under the rocks all the time because the crickets that escape his feeder cup always go there to die. So it gets kinda gross under there, even though I only cup feed him. And I have found live crickets eating the dead ones under the rocks. That is the sanitary problem with them. And just having a little more than a handful of rocks in his cage is kind of a pain to clean. I wouldn't cover the whole bottom with rocks because that would be such a hassle. Just my two cents on the topic.

 

[Wykd]

Thanks Ferret, you confirmed my fears and something I had not thought of... the glass marbles being shiny and look wet. I have a bunch of them in various planters that cover the soil in my house plants that are range from quarter size on up that I was wondering about.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Also some chameleons are afraid of certain bright colors. It would be a shame to cover the floor of his house in a terrifying way for him!

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

Yes, people have had chameleons die from ingesting substrate and becoming impacted. Luckily it doesn't happen all too often, but when it does it is terrible.

Wykd - river rocks are okay if they are large enough that a chameleon cannot eat them. I would never use those flat marble pebbles because those are just the right size that if your chamelen accidentally picked one of those up while hunting that could be a serious choking hazard, and a major impaction hazard. Since those are hard they would have a difficult time working their way back it of the system. Do not use those.

On the subject of using lots of rocks - I have a little pile of river rocks in my veileds cage to hide the bottom of his branches for aesthetic purposes. First of all, I had to take out any white or shiny rocks because my cham thought those were shiny from being wet and would always try to eat them. They were bigger than his head so he never could, but he tried all the time until I took them out. Also I have to clean under the rocks all the time because the crickets that escape his feeder cup always go there to die. So it gets kinda gross under there, even though I only cup feed him. And I have found live crickets eating the dead ones under the rocks. That is the sanitary problem with them. And just having a little more than a handful of rocks in his cage is kind of a pain to clean. I wouldn't cover the whole bottom with rocks because that would be such a hassle. Just my two cents on the topic.

My cham likes to try eat rocks too!!! Its so weird as he has rocks on his soil in his cage but doesnt touch them atall! I have four plants on his free rang that are alson coverd with rocks.. But i have to cover up two of the plants with a clean towel to prevent him from seeing them as he will try to eat them, but the other two on his free range has the same rocks from the same place but yet he doesnt touch them! Lol

 

[Wykd]

lol I had totally forgot about the color issue, dang glad you mentioned that... I remember someone else mentioning the clothes you wear and its impact on the cham's attitude to you etc... They suggested subtle earth tones and to avoid alot of colorful/contrasting colors when around the cham. I guess that would also carry over to room decor/wall colors if you look at it from a big picture and its impact on a cham's behavior/attitude in general?

Also some chameleons are afraid of certain bright colors. It would be a shame to cover the floor of his house in a terrifying way for him!

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

My veiled is terrified of orange! I noticed that he was suddenly hiding all the time and wouldn't come out except sometimes to eat and then would rush back into his plant. This went on for about a week and I was getting worried about him, but then I noticed that the new giant nerf gun my husband got (yes husband, not child) was on the opposite side of the room but within clear sight of his cage. Soon as that disappeared he came out and was totally normal! My panther hates white actually. The only time he will hiss or be really freaked out is if I try to pick him up wearing my white coat.

 

[Boldie]

Thanks for all your advise. If I remove the substrate can anyone suggest a drainage system for a glass Exo terra Viv.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

How big is your exo terra?

 

[Boldie]

45x45x60cm at the moment but will be looking at getting 60x45x90cm when I need to move my cham into a bigger home.

 

[Wykd]

Don't remove it? Just put a thin layer of flat/river rocks over it to cover the soil. Then you can still keep your substrate for humidity reasoning etc... and just clean off the rocks as needed?

Thanks for all your advise. If I remove the substrate can anyone suggest a drainage system for a glass Exo terra Viv.

 

[Kate]

Hi Rob. Have sent you a pm.

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

Don't remove it? Just put a thin layer of flat/river rocks over it to cover the soil. Then you can still keep your substrate for humidity reasoning etc... and just clean off the rocks as needed?

The amount of watering you need for a Cham, the soil couldn't soak all that up surely? Unless u had good draining at the bottom?