Swollen Ankles

[Stevethecham]

So i have noticed a decline in appetite for my boy. Last week he ate barely 2 bugs a day. Then i noticed his ankle getting a little more swollen. He always had big legs in my opinion but i think this maybe is too much.. What do you guys think?



Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon

• Handling - Once a day. In summer time he goes in his outside tree for 3 to 4 hours a day depending on the weather.

• Feeding - Crickets, Dubia's, Morioworms, Silkworms, Small Dragonfly's.

• A=Calcium Without D3
• B=Calcium with D3
• C=Reptivite vitamins

• Dusting schedule: Week 1:AAAAAAB
Week 2:AAAAAAC

• Supplements - Reptivite vitamins, repti calcium without and with D3

• Watering - Misting twice a day, mornings and evenings. Misting for 1 or 2 minutes. Dripper for during the day. Don't see him drinking a lot of leaves, only when i mist.

• Fecal Description - Fecal looks black/brownish. Urate looks white and creamy with little orange on top. Fecal has been tested for parasites. He was clean

• History - Got him at a pet store in wich the husbandry was really bad. Glass tank without ventilation and heat bulbs within the enclosure. My cham was the smallest and thinnest chameleon out of the pack. So i took him because i wanted to give the little guy a chance.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Sreen cage, ReptiBreeze XXL. Biggest from reptibreeze

• Lighting - Reptisun T5 HO 5.0 and considering a 10.0 because veileds can handle a little more uvb in my experience. Heat bulb, depending on the season i usually use a flood halogen bulb from home depot. 50 watt. And in summer time sometimes less wattage.

• Temperature - Basking area: 83-85. Ambient temps between 70-75, sometimes a little higher in the summer time, but i correct that with an aircooler. Bottom of the cage is 73


• Humidity - Humidity around 50% all year round and spikes to 80% when misted or heavy rainfall outside.

• Plants - live plants only! Pothos, Ficus Benjamina, Silk Pothos, Orchids

• Placement - 40 cm of the ground, i got a fan half a meter next to the cage but only use when needed.

• Location - Netherlands

 

[Sonny13]

What's his age? From an adult age you can cut down feeding to 2-3 items every other day. Swollen ankles normally are a start of gout (the reason about triggering gout is still unknown), but just guessing, it could be over supplementing, because of two reasons. One he gets feeders incl. supplements everyday (this gives could give him lots supplements) and second he now gets lots of natural UVB which means they don't need the extra D3. Also noticed it myself how they can react on the (over)supplementation and also how quickly it disappears after they get a chance to flush it out of their system. And just for the record I'm guessing and this would just be my first thought when I read this. Other will chime inn briefly..... @Beman @kinyonga any thoughts about this?

I also believe that with gout the ankles are thick completely around the ankle and his ankle doesn't extremely thick and they have a certain thickness when the foot is angled in a certain position.

"Gout is the concentration of uric acid crystals around the joints causing a painful condition. Chameleons will often develop gout around their “ankles” and legs with have a swollen appearance. The painful nature of it will make using the limb difficult. At this time it is unclear what causes the gout, though it is suspected to be dietary".

 

[Stevethecham]

What's his age? From an adult age you can cut down feeding to 2-3 items every other day. Swollen ankles normally are a start of gout (the reason about triggering gout is still unknown), but just guessing, it could be over supplementing, because of two reasons. One he gets feeders incl. supplements everyday (this gives could give him lots supplements) and second he now gets lots of natural UVB which means they don't need the extra D3. Also noticed it myself how they can react on the (over)supplementation and also how quickly it disappears after they get a chance to flush it out of their system. And just for the record I'm guessing and this would just be my first thought when I read this. Other will chime inn briefly..... @Beman @kinyonga any thoughts about this?

I also believe that with gout the ankles are thick completely around the ankle and his ankle doesn't extremely thick and they have a certain thickness when the foot is angled in a certain position.

"Gout is the concentration of uric acid crystals around the joints causing a painful condition. Chameleons will often develop gout around their “ankles” and legs with have a swollen appearance. The painful nature of it will make using the limb difficult. At this time it is unclear what causes the gout, though it is suspected to be dietary".

Thanks for the quick reply sonny! Got a vet appointment just to be sure! Taking a fecal exam as well. I will reduce supplements.

 

[Beman]

So I am not seeing swelling in that back ankle. Looks like a normal strong leg on a male Veiled.

Is your reptivite with D3?

Looks like he is pretty mature. It can be normal for them to reduce in feeding amounts. For an adult you only should be feeding every other day at most. And only 2-3 feeders.

Per the UVB you would not increase to a 10.0 bulb. More UVB does not make it better for a Veiled. So looking for a 8-9 inch distance from the T5HO and a 5.0 or 6% bulb to get a 3 UVI level.

 

[Stevethecham]

So I am not seeing swelling in that back ankle. Looks like a normal strong leg on a male Veiled.

Is your reptivite with D3?

Looks like he is pretty mature. It can be normal for them to reduce in feeding amounts. For an adult you only should be feeding every other day at most. And only 2-3 feeders.

Per the UVB you would not increase to a 10.0 bulb. More UVB does not make it better for a Veiled. So looking for a 8-9 inch distance from the T5HO and a 5.0 or 6% bulb to get a 3 UVI level.

Thanks Beman! I did a fecal test and he is clean. Will reduce the amount of feeders. My reptivite is without d3, i have a different bottle for the d3.

 

[Beman]

Thanks Beman! I did a fecal test and he is clean. Will reduce the amount of feeders. My reptivite is without d3, i have a different bottle for the d3.

Ok then your supplementation is fine with the schedule you are on. I do not see anything to worry about. fecal being clean indicates he is naturally curbing back on feeders. This is actually what you want to happen. Makes it easier to transition to 2-3 feeders every other day.

 

[Stevethecham]

Ok then your supplementation is fine with the schedule you are on. I do not see anything to worry about. fecal being clean indicates he is naturally curbing back on feeders. This is actually what you want to happen. Makes it easier to transition to 2-3 feeders every other day.

Great , thanks for the assist!

 

[Thatwizard420]

I had the same question about 3 years ago.
Their back ankles are just stronger