The Levels of Chameleon Keeping

[Motherlode Chameleon]

As you grow as a chameleon keeper it most definitely can be said that you attain new levels of chameleon keeping. These levels starting from your introduction to chameleons when you either read or first see a chameleon in a book or captivity. That could be described as a level 1 introduction to chameleons. Then next to when your hobby leads you to writing a magazine article or blog. Or to when your hobby leads you to your first ecotourism trip to Madagascar and you spot your first chameleon in the wild. These could be considered level 8 or 9 experiences for chameleon keepers.

While on the other hand there are chameleon keepers that could be said that are at the highest level, such as breeding professionals who captive breed chameleons for the pet trade which in turn takes pressures off collecting specimens from the wild or taxonomist doing population studies in the wild. Those could be debated to be level 10 experiences for leveling.

The idea is to set list of categories for keepers to keep leveling to attain the highest scores meaning the best husbandry for the keepers and best conditions for chameleons. Meaning the hobby is continually striving for higher standards and improvements.

The categories I have got so far are Health (Measure by Age, Growth, overall Vitals of Chameleons), Conservation/Chameleons in the Wild (Contribute to more than just the Pet Trade, Chameleons Conservation Issues are Important to you), Enclosures (Scale of your Enclosures/How over the top you are), Breeding (If your interested in Breeding or a Professional Breeder), Art/Photograph (Fashionably how much your Chameleon are Apart of your Life), and Food (Buy Insect or Breed All your Feeders). These are on a one too ten scale and are added up then you have got your level of chameleon keeper. With these 6 categories the score is out of 60.

This is a hobby and a passion of most people if people are becoming overly competitive about this back off your going to ruin your hobby.

 

[pssh]

I think the hardest part is actually setting the "levels" in such a way that they are fairly straight forwards and easy to place keepers in. I mean, how exactly does one create a definition for a "level 10" in health or enclosures? And how do you ensure they are really at "level 10" and not faking/lying?

It's a fun idea for sure, as long as no one gets too competitive about it.

 

[Psychobunny]

Interesting idea, but what would be the point?

To what purpose would it serve?

Putting people in "grades" or "catagories" almost always gets hostile

 

[Progrmor]

In my opinion you cant really do that. Well you can sort of. But then I also think that there are two types of chameleon keepers, the ones that care and love their chameleon incredible much but maybe not have so much knowledge about keeping them but is trying really hard! (Im one of them). Then there are those that have chameleons more for breeding and just to have an animal, maybe lost interest a bit but keeps them anyway and are doing one hell of a good job doing that. Then ofcourse there are those that are both of those people. A combination.

But you sure are on to something I think.
This is just my opinion. Im a newbie but im completely in love with these animals!! I want atleast 3-5 more but Im aware of that I cant handle that. But one day!

 

[coldbloodedAL]

I doubt any good would come from adding labels for members level of keeping... There's already enough unnecessary bs that goes on around here time and time again. I'll be the first to admit I have participated in it, but I let others get the best of me... Won't happen again.

And Who would be the judge of it without it being biased?

I get why this could be good, It's a great idea... I just don't believe it would work here.

Your last statement describes exactly what I think could be the end result.

 

[Mike Fisher]

It would all devolve into a sausage measuring contest.

 

[Psychobunny]

It would all devolve into a sausage measuring contest.

Yep, there will always be someone with a bigger sausage then you

 

[laurie]

I see it as a way for the people who think way to much of their "skills" to boast yet again. I would have no idea at all how to put myself on a scale. I tend to think I know next to nothing, yet compared to some I do, who knows.

I do think you would rate high on the scale Jeremy. Or at least I know you rate very high on my personal scale.

 

[DanSB]

Jeremy, you're not a very good nerd. The idea itself sounds like great fun but the implementation is lacking. As one who is a genuine nerd I would base it off of Dungeons and Dragons principals. Certain actions / accomplishments could be worth a specific number of experience points. Experience points add up to give one levels in certain categories.

So like instead of your elf casting spells to take out orks you successfully hatch out a clutch. Maybe instead of your cleric healing the wounded you successfully acclimate and nurse a wild caught back to health. And don't forget the basics of course. Being able to raise bugs, keep temps and humidity etc etc.

I'm joking a little here but somthing like this would have to be looked upon as a fun thing that if laid out properly could certainly give newer people a good roadmap of what it takes to be a great keeper, which I think is the intention.

Also if set up correctly it isn't a competition against others but a way for people to judge their own skill level and help identify new challenges along with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[laurie]

Jeremy, you're not a very good nerd. The idea itself sounds like great fun but the implementation is lacking. As one who is a genuine nerd I would base it off of Dungeons and Dragons principals. Certain actions / accomplishments could be worth a specific number of experience points. Experience points add up to give one levels in certain categories.

So like instead of your elf casting spells to take out orks you successfully hatch out a clutch. Maybe instead of your cleric healing the wounded you successfully acclimate and nurse a wild caught back to health. And don't forget the basics of course. Being able to raise bugs, keep temps and humidity etc etc.

I'm joking a little here but somthing like this would have to be looked upon as a fun thing that if laid out properly could certainly give newer people a good roadmap of what it takes to be a great keeper, which I think is the intention.

Also if set up correctly it isn't a competition against others but a way for people to judge their own skill level and help identify new challenges along with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Good response as usual. Now tell me how we could rate me??

 

[DanSB]

Good response as usual. Now tell me how we could rate me??

Laurie, you rate as awesome.

I would think one would have to spend a lot of time determining a list of accomplishments and the relative difficulty. For example successfully raising and breeding a wild caught quad would be far more of an accomplishment than breeding a captive veiled.

Some basics examples:

- Keeping correct humidity for a complete year: 10 points
- Keeping correct temps for a year: 10 points
- Having no feeder insect make up more than 40% of diet: 50 points

Some more advanced examples:

- Keeping a wild caught alive past average life expectancy: 200 points
- Hatching a clutch successfully: 100 points
Species multiplier: quads x2, Parsons x4, Bradypodion x3

Etc etc... This could take a lot of time.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Some basics examples:

- Keeping correct humidity for a complete year: 10 points
- Keeping correct temps for a year: 10 points
- Having no feeder insect make up more than 40% of diet: 50 points

Some more advanced examples:

- Keeping a wild caught alive past average life expectancy: 200 points
- Hatching a clutch successfully: 100 points
Species multiplier: quads x2, Parsons x4, Bradypodion x3

Etc etc... This could take a lot of time.

You are off to a great start! Thank you for volunteering!

 

[DanSB]

You are off to a great start! Thank you for volunteering!

Ha ha, I wish I had time for this kind of project. I suspect most wouldn't even use it if it did exist.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I think the hardest part is actually setting the "levels" in such a way that they are fairly straight forwards and easy to place keepers in. I mean, how exactly does one create a definition for a "level 10" in health or enclosures? And how do you ensure they are really at "level 10" and not faking/lying?

It's a fun idea for sure, as long as no one gets too competitive about it.

Nothing hard about this these score won't be set in stone. It is though where the expertise of the experienced keepers of these forums does become a factor. This is supposed to be a neat way for you to assess your progress as a chameleon keeper. You could keep your scores private or openly determine your score on this thread. If you post your criteria on this thread we can assess about what the scores are or via pm or other private ways you can assess what your scores are. As well in the future there is the possibility that you can judge your own scores if you are confident enough.

How about as a 10 for Health raising 20 year old Parsonii. Or for Enclosures how about a backyard of Giant Enclosures or multiple greenhouses. Credibility would have to be proven.

They are a way for you to strive to become an improved chameleon keepers.

Interesting idea, but what would be the point?

To what purpose would it serve?

Putting people in "grades" or "catagories" almost always gets hostile

As I stated earlier it is a neat way to watch your progress as you evolve as a chameleon keeper. Plus as you are gaining points to make you want to strive to continually become a more improve chameleon keeper.

I doubt any good would come from adding labels for members level of keeping... There's already enough unnecessary bs that goes on around here time and time again. I'll be the first to admit I have participated in it, but I let others get the best of me... Won't happen again.

And Who would be the judge of it without it being biased?

I get why this could be good, It's a great idea... I just don't believe it would work here.

Your last statement describes exactly what I think could be the end result.

That is why I think it is important that this is done with the keepers discretion. I think keeping your scores completely private is logical, your progress is your own business. If you have not got confidence in showing your scores to people don't show them your scores. However this thread could become a good place how to assess what your scores or ballpark scores are if you have got questions or you could ask for multiple someones to assess scores privately.

Jeremy, you're not a very good nerd. The idea itself sounds like great fun but the implementation is lacking. As one who is a genuine nerd I would base it off of Dungeons and Dragons principals. Certain actions / accomplishments could be worth a specific number of experience points. Experience points add up to give one levels in certain categories.

So like instead of your elf casting spells to take out orks you successfully hatch out a clutch. Maybe instead of your cleric healing the wounded you successfully acclimate and nurse a wild caught back to health. And don't forget the basics of course. Being able to raise bugs, keep temps and humidity etc etc.

I'm joking a little here but somthing like this would have to be looked upon as a fun thing that if laid out properly could certainly give newer people a good roadmap of what it takes to be a great keeper, which I think is the intention.

Also if set up correctly it isn't a competition against others but a way for people to judge their own skill level and help identify new challenges along with their own strengths and weaknesses.

I never claimed to be a Dungeons and Dragons Nerd on these forums (I have played only two or three times). I think if I recall correctly I have got Bio Geek profile. I'm not attempting to make a point system that is the same as D&D. However I'm am attempting to make a point system that is similar. Although it is based on a totally different set of criteria than you presented for Dungeons and Dragons. Such as criteria that pertains to your chameleon hobby that starts as you begin and evolve with the categories of Enclosures, Food, Health, Art, Breeding, and Conservation. I have always been a big fan of the motivation that the D&D point system creates. Which with this case is the kind of point system I'm attempting to recreate here with the Chameleon Forums community.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Ha ha, I wish I had time for this kind of project. I suspect most wouldn't even use it if it did exist.

Thanks for volunteering!

 

[KarmenCham]

only levels i can see looking round for all things chameleons are those that have them as cool jewelery type items, those that keep them as interested in actually caring for them as part of the family and collectors of all things Herpetological, ranking systems as far as i'm concerned are ridiculous who is to say that someone can't quote verbatim the statistics temp humidity etc related species a and b but have no damn idea wtf it means in reality to actually look after the reptiles in Question?!

 

[chameleonowner32]

It would all devolve into a sausage measuring contest.

Yep, there will always be someone with a bigger sausage then you

This had my a$$ rolling on the floor but it is so true. THe only difference between really good keepers and breeders compared to like teens, or others is money.

 

[Todnedo]

Maybe you could hand out stickers to members for good husbandry, enclosure, feeder care ect.

 

[ataraxia]

So lets get down to the nitty gritty. If you want to skip all the experience of keeping and such...How much will these "levels" or "points" cost? Paypal?

 

[DanSB]

So lets get down to the nitty gritty. If you want to skip all the experience of keeping and such...How much will these "levels" or "points" cost? Paypal?

Good sir, integrity is not for sale! (not for less than 500 bucks anyway...)