To boil or not to boil; that is the question

Personally I am really starting to wonder... But I am of no use here as I just switched back to commercial gutload to rule out issues such as oxalates.
 
Kaizen said:
For all you bug food nerds out there, let me hear your thoughts on oxalates, boiling, and water soluble vitamin loss.

@kinyonga
@Beman
@jamest0o0
@JoXie411
@DocZ
@JacksJill
...I know I’m forgetting important people; please forgive me.
Click to expand...

Funny but as I was reading your post about boiling the first thing that came to mind was are you going t "boil" away calcium. I knew it degrades some vitamins but I had to wonder about minerals...
Then my mind went to la la land and I forgot to look it up!
 
Cooking loss of minerals in foods...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2081985/
Are you eating your favourite vegetables the right way?
https://www.gleneagles.com.sg/healthplus/article/cooked-raw-vegetables

"Boiling a high-oxalate food like spinach can often reduce its oxalate content by about 10%"...
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=45
"Green beans blanched for 18 minutes in boiling tap water"..."contained more calcium than raw beans".....
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2621.1948.tb16626.x

Effect of different cooking methods on vegetable oxalates content...
"Boiling markedly reduced soluble oxalate content by 30-87%"...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15826055/
 
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Yeah, so as far as I can tell, calcium retention from boiling is generally very high. Certainly there’ll be losses in certain water soluble vitamins and minerals, but my hope is that other non-boiled ingredients can pick up the slack, so to speak. Also, as I understand it, the method of cooking matters. I guess this makes sense: water will affect water soluble elements, oil will affect fat solubles. I should probably do some more research, but the sense I got was that boiling reduced oxalates by up to 85% while preserving calcium content...but this was at the cost of losing vitamin c and some of the b’s. Again, my research here is cursory at best.
 
@Kaizen you’re busy today! It’s awesome :)

I haven’t done any research on this topic. When you think about vitamins that might be degraded, Vitamin C should be synthesized within the chameleons. The water soluble B’s I think it would be important to add something (uncooked, supplemented) to make up for loss of B’s. Your gutload variety would likely make up for that

what foods are you hoping to reduce oxalate levels in? Are their lower oxalate alternatives you could substitute?
 
DocZ said:
@Kaizen you’re busy today! It’s awesome :)

I haven’t done any research on this topic. When you think about vitamins that might be degraded, Vitamin C should be synthesized within the chameleons. The water soluble B’s I think it would be important to add something (uncooked, supplemented) to make up for loss of B’s. Your gutload variety would likely make up for that

what foods are you hoping to reduce oxalate levels in? Are their lower oxalate alternatives you could substitute?
Click to expand...
To tell you the truth, just about every one of our high calcium greens is an oxalate nightmare. Spinach has been off the table forever, but collards, dandelion, escarole, beet greens, etc. are all high in oxalates. Ugh! Nothing is simple! Anyways, I’ll be back in 40 minutes: New episode of the circus!!!!
 
kinyonga said:
I kept adding to my post above...did you catch that @Kaizen ?
Oxalate content "harm" depends on if it's already bound or not.
Click to expand...
Let me muddy the waters even more: there are water soluble oxalates and non-water soluble oxalates, and boiling, obviously, only takes care of the former. “Bound” oxalates sounds like they’ve already done their worst...what are they bound to?
 
I swear, I’ll get into this more, but my wife’s gonna kill me if I don’t pay attention to the last episode of the circus.
 
If you are supplying a high calcium diet, can the oxalates be bound to calcium in the gut decreasing oxalate absorption Into the body?

so if the diet has greater than 2:1 calcium to phosphorus, maybe 4+:1, can oxalate binding in the gut still yield an adequate Ca : P ratio in the animal?

just saw @kinyonga’s post ?
 
DocZ said:
If you are supplying a high calcium diet, can the oxalates be bound to calcium in the gut decreasing oxalate absorption Into the body?

so if the diet has greater than 2:1 calcium to phosphorus, maybe 4+:1, can oxalate binding in the gut still yield an adequate Ca : P ratio in the animal?

just saw @kinyonga’s post ?
Click to expand...
FYI, I just read today about using certain probiotic bacteria to reduce oxalates.
 
Lol I just worked a hard shift, then did my weightlifting routine. Exhausted and been gone all day. I'll have to tune in later before my wife kills me for being on cham forums
 
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