Twiggy the rescue

[Hglaesel]

Hello all....... Please see below



Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Female veiled chameleon about a one year to one and a half years old. Her name is Twiggy. She is a rescue and in my care for about 7 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Used to handle her once or twice a month before the egg laying.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

She gets crickets, Dubai roaches, silk worms, horn worms and as a treat (once a month) supper worms. 4-5 bugs every other day. Crickets and Dubai get sweet potato, spinach leaves, broccoli. Crickets also get oats and wheat germ. Silks and horn have their own mix as purchased.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

Rep Cal Calcium, Rep Cal Calcium with D3 and Rep Cal herptivite. Calcium dusting on Monday thru Saturday feedings, D3 and heptivite every other Sunday.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Repti Zoo 10L misting system. Mist -2- times per day for two minutes each. Used to see her drink before egg lay. Not anymore.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Brown and white separate. Has not been tested.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Twiggy has been rescued from a family that threw her around like a ball. We purchased a new enclosure (see below) and all was great till the egg lay.






Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Exo Terra screen enclosure. 18 x 36 x 36

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Reptisun T5 H0 terrarium hood. Goes on at 7:30 am and off at 8:30 pm

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Basking area between 80 degrees. Bottom ranges between 70 and 72 degrees. Using -2- wired temperature/humidity probes.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

70-75% at bottom and 60-50% on top. Using -2- wired temperature/humidity probes.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Yes, there are live plants. Two Ficus and two Folios. And a few air plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Enclosure is located in a separate room from high traffic areas. It is near a widow that does not get direct sun. The enclosure sits on a three foot high Exo Terra stand. Top of enclosure is at six feet.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Long Island, New York


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She laid 28 eggs about three weeks ago. One week prior she stopped eating. She laid eggs in a 10 x 10 x 8 lay bin. After the lay she has been acting weird. Always dark in color and hiding. Also has a gullet. She does eat but I haven’t seen her drink. I’m sure she is, but to make sure I give her horn worms for hydration. There are times she sits in basking area with mouth open. When I walk in she closes and sometimes goes and hides. Maybe I am just being to protective, but any info would be appreciated.

 

[Beman]

She has pretty extreme edema going on... Can you get more pics of her and I can go through your husbandry form.

 

[Beman]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Female veiled chameleon about a one year to one and a half years old. Her name is Twiggy. She is a rescue and in my care for about 7 months.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Used to handle her once or twice a month before the egg laying.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

She gets crickets, Dubai roaches, silk worms, horn worms and as a treat (once a month) supper worms. 4-5 bugs every other day. Crickets and Dubai get sweet potato, spinach leaves, broccoli. Crickets also get oats and wheat germ. Silks and horn have their own mix as purchased. Stop using spinach it can effect calcium absorption. See gutload image. Take the crickets off the oats mix and put them on the same gutload. You want a variety of the fresh produce. OR buy something like repashy bug burger and mix as directed for them. She is being fed a bit too much. Should be on 3 feeders 3 days a week. This lower feeding amount and lower basking temp controls clutch size.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

Rep Cal Calcium, Rep Cal Calcium with D3 and Rep Cal herptivite. Calcium dusting on Monday thru Saturday feedings, D3 and heptivite every other Sunday. So you want to be using Calcium without D3 on all feedings... Except 2 times a month (say the 1st and the 15th) use a calcium with D3/multivitamin combo. I do not like herptivite because it does not have preformed A. I would replace this along with the Calcium with D3 and buy an all in one. Either repashy Calcium plus LoD version or Reptivite with D3.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Repti Zoo 10L misting system. Mist -2- times per day for two minutes each. Used to see her drink before egg lay. Not anymore. Might need to add a dripper.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Brown and white separate. Has not been tested.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Twiggy has been rescued from a family that threw her around like a ball. We purchased a new enclosure (see below) and all was great till the egg lay.


Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Exo Terra screen enclosure. 18 x 36 x 36 This is fine for her.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Reptisun T5 H0 terrarium hood. Goes on at 7:30 am and off at 8:30 pm She can get really close to the UVB.... What strength bulb are you using? It will say on the bulb. With a T5HO single bulb fixture and a 5.0 bulb you need 8-9 inches to the closest branch below it for the correct UVI level. With a 10.0 in the same fixture you need a full 11-12 inches to the branch. This will put her in the correct 3 UVI range. Right now she is able to get far too close putting her into over exposure levels.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Basking area between 80 degrees. Bottom ranges between 70 and 72 degrees. Using -2- wired temperature/humidity probes. Basking should be 78-80 and not any hotter.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

70-75% at bottom and 60-50% on top. Using -2- wired temperature/humidity probes. Is this natural humidity or are you using a fogger? These are a bit high for a Veiled.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Yes, there are live plants. Two Ficus and two Folios. And a few air plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Enclosure is located in a separate room from high traffic areas. It is near a widow that does not get direct sun. The enclosure sits on a three foot high Exo Terra stand. Top of enclosure is at six feet.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Long Island, New York
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
She laid 28 eggs about three weeks ago. One week prior she stopped eating. She laid eggs in a 10 x 10 x 8 lay bin. After the lay she has been acting weird. Always dark in color and hiding. Also has a gullet. She does eat but I haven’t seen her drink. I’m sure she is, but to make sure I give her horn worms for hydration. There are times she sits in basking area with mouth open. When I walk in she closes and sometimes goes and hides. Maybe I am just being to protective, but any info would be appreciated.

A few concerning things here... There is a chance she retained eggs.
Was she disrupted at all while she was trying to lay?
Did she fully cover them up?
Did you leave the lay bin in just in case she was not done?

Second... She can get far too close to UVB levels that would be in the extreme over exposure levels.

Edema indicats that something is not correct in her body. This could be due to the UVB over exposure but also can be linked to retained eggs. Edema is common in females especially around egg laying. But hers should not have come up after the eggs. More likely to show up prior to laying.

I personally would correct the UVB distance and other mentioned items. But you should take her to a reptile vet. If she has retained eggs this will kill her. You need to ensure that this is not an issue. They will take an xray to rule this out. Here is a link to find a vet near you https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

 

[Hglaesel]

Was she disrupted at all while she was trying to lay?

NO, we left her alone

Did she fully cover them up?

Yes, she covered it up and did not go back in.

Did you leave the lay bin in just in case she was not done?

We took the bin out and cleaned it after 4 days of no activity and after she started eating again

 

[Beman]

Was she disrupted at all while she was trying to lay?

NO, we left her alone

Did she fully cover them up?

Yes, she covered it up and did not go back in.

Did you leave the lay bin in just in case she was not done?

We took the bin out and cleaned it after 4 days of no activity and after she started eating again

Ok so most keepers will recommend always leaving a bin in.

I am still concerned that she may have retained eggs. I would recommend getting an xray done to ensure she passed them all. Double check your UVB and make the adjustments. If she does not have retained eggs. Then edema is almost always linked to supplement or UVB issue. So ensuring these are on point is important for the edema to start to subside.

 

[Hglaesel]

It started to grow about 3-4 weeks before the eggs. Its been now three and a half weeks since she laid the eggs. I switched the supplements only after the egg lay because I watched a video from Neptune the chameleon. Not 100% but it looks as it has been SLOWLY getting smaller, but her color isn't changing much. Will try to lower her vines and raise heat lamps tonight.

 

[Beman]

It started to grow about 3-4 weeks before the eggs. Its been now three and a half weeks since she laid the eggs. I switched the supplements only after the egg lay because I watched a video from Neptune the chameleon. Not 100% but it looks as it has been SLOWLY getting smaller, but her color isn't changing much. Will try to lower her vines and raise heat lamps tonight.

What were the supplements prior to egg laying? What schedule was she on the other supplements? An overdose of D3 can cause this as well. But your supplements you mentioned were semi correct and should not cause edema.

You can also raise fixtures. Just ensure your doing the correct over all distance from branch to bottom of fixture for the UVB bulb strength.

 

[Hglaesel]

What were the supplements prior to egg laying? What schedule was she on the other supplements? An overdose of D3 can cause this as well. But your supplements you mentioned were semi correct and should not cause edema.

ZooMed Reptivite with no D3 on every feeding, nothing else. Stuff smells like vitamins.

You can also raise fixtures. Just ensure your doing the correct over all distance from branch to bottom of fixture for the UVB bulb strength.

It's a Reptisun T5 bulb, I read on this site and that's why I purchased. Lowering vines a couple of inches shouldn't hurt, I hope....

 

[Beman]

Well either form of reptivite would cause major issues if it was given every feeding including Edema. Both have vitamin A in it and one version has D3. Both vitamin A and D3 are fat soluble so they store in the tissues. Unlike other vitamins that are water soluble and flush easily from their system. Either type of reptivite should only be given 2 times a month with this species. It can take months for edema to subside fully. Watch her closely. I would not give her any calcium with D3 for at least 4 weeks. The herptivite is fine since it does not have any fat soluble vitamins. Continue using the calcium without D3. Make sure insects are lightly dusted.

Look on the bulb though to find the bulb strength it would be either a 5.0 or a 10.0. Depending on bulb strength your looking at different distances to branch.

 

[Hglaesel]

Look on the bulb though to find the bulb strength it would be either a 5.0 or a 10.0. Depending on bulb strength your looking at different distances to branch.

Question, if 5.0 should I still move branches away?

 

[Beman]

Look on the bulb though to find the bulb strength it would be either a 5.0 or a 10.0. Depending on bulb strength your looking at different distances to branch.

Question, if 5.0 should I still move branches away?

If 5.0 then you want a distance of 8-9 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the closest branch below the fixture. If 10.0 you want a distance of 11-12 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the closest branch below the fixture.

 

[Sonny13]

It started to grow about 3-4 weeks before the eggs. Its been now three and a half weeks since she laid the eggs. I switched the supplements only after the egg lay because I watched a video from Neptune the chameleon. Not 100% but it looks as it has been SLOWLY getting smaller, but her color isn't changing much. Will try to lower her vines and raise heat lamps tonight.

I haven’t read everything and I’m bit short in time. However, my girl laid now for third time and 2-3 weeks prior to the laying she gets gular edema and after laying it disappears within a week. For now I she gets close to laying. She still looks pretty big in the pictures, normally they should look skinny and wrinkled afterwards.

 

[Hglaesel]

I opened enclosure last night and waited for her to investigate. Color is better than the past few days. Also edema seems to be a lot smaller. See pictures attached

White on her head is still from her nesting substrate. (sand/calcium mixed with Eco Earth. Couldn't find and play sand and was desperate. I do have a 50 pound bag for next go around.

 

[Beman]

I opened enclosure last night and waited for her to investigate. Color is better than the past few days. Also edema seems to be a lot smaller. See pictures attached

White on her head is still from her nesting substrate. (sand/calcium mixed with Eco Earth. Couldn't find and play sand and was desperate. I do have a 50 pound bag for next go around.

edema does look better. Looks like she needs a nice long misting to clear the sand from her face and eyes.

 

[Hglaesel]

Looks like she needs a nice long misting to clear the sand from her face and eyes.

LOL..... Every time I mist her by hand, she hisses and takes off like a bat out of h3ll

 

[Beman]

Looks like she needs a nice long misting to clear the sand from her face and eyes.

LOL..... Every time I mist her by hand, she hisses and takes off like a bat out of h3ll

Most chams do not like hand misting bottles... They have a very hard spray to them. Consider getting an automated misting system for the cage. A mistking has a very fine mist to it. Most love them.

 

[Hglaesel]

Most chams do not like hand misting bottles... They have a very hard spray to them. Consider getting an automated misting system for the cage. A mistking has a very fine mist to it. Most love them.

I have a Repti Zoo 10L misting system. Mist -2- times per day for two minutes each. I have -3- nozzles in this enclosure. Should the time be increased?

 

[Beman]

Most chams do not like hand misting bottles... They have a very hard spray to them. Consider getting an automated misting system for the cage. A mistking has a very fine mist to it. Most love them.

I have a Repti Zoo 10L misting system. Mist -2- times per day for two minutes each. I have -3- nozzles in this enclosure. Should the time be increased?

Not necessarily if your running 3 nozzles. If the entire enclosure is dripping wet then you should be good. If not then bump to 3 minutes and reevaluate. I would utilize this over hand spraying her.

 

[Lindasjackson]

Welcome to the forum! Your girl is beautiful and looks so much better in the last photos! Good job! And good job to Beman for all the great help she gave you!

 

[Hglaesel]

Welcome to the forum! Your girl is beautiful and looks so much better in the last photos! Good job! And good job to Beman for all the great help she gave you!

Yes...... I am VERY grateful for the information and the help given to me for Twiggy. She had a bad life for the first part of her short life. I am glad I took her when I did as I'm sure she would not have made it much longer getting thrown back and fourth in a room full of stupid teenagers. I'm hoping she is on the road to a full recovery.

Thanks for the help Beman