Two Chameleons Dead, Same Circumstances.

[Tash112194]

Hi everyone,
This is my first time posting. I've had 3 chameleons total die on me. My first one, I got from someone on Craigslist, he was well taken care of but not handled much. With me, he became very friendly, would crawl to me if I put my hand in his cage, and would sit in my hair while I did stuff around the house. One day, we came home and he was on the floor of his cage, and not moving and cold, when we held him under his basking lamp to try to warm him up he took some shuddering breaths with his eyes closed and then started to get stiff. Then we got two chameleons (a boy and a girl) at a pet store, and the boy grew fast and big, and the girl kinda stayed around the same size she was when we got her. After having her for a few months we noticed she looked super skinny, so we tried hand feeding her and giving her water through a syringe to make sure she was drinking and eating, she threw up everything we gave her and died two days later, after being very week and not being able to support her body weight enough to climb. Then last night, my boyfriends normally grumpy chameleon was very light green and sitting in her cage with her eyes shut, (she hates me) I reached in and she let me take her out with no issues, I gave her some water and she drank quite a bit, and then this morning we checked on her and she was hanging limply on the mesh of her cage, so we put her on her platform and she didn't try to get her legs under her at all and was taking some shuddering breathers and not opening her eyes, we noticed there was vomit on the platform too. I guess I'm just wondering what we're doing wrong, and why our chameleons keep dying like this. We mist 5 times a day, have a heat lamp and UVB lamp, we always have calcium dusted crickets in the cage, and we hand feed meal worms and wax worms once a week. I've seen "death rattles" mentioned on this forum a couple times in response to vomiting concerns, but I haven't seen any explanation of what it is or what causes it. I have two male chameleons left, and now I'm worried they might be the next to get sick.

 

[Starman]

Do you supply calcium with D3 as well, or just calcium without?

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Please fill out the ask for help form in the stickies with all your information

 

[Tash112194]

We're using the Zoo-Med Repti-Calcium w/ Vitamin D3. We dust every other batch of crickets with it, since we bought them from pet stores and they all came with MBD.

 

[Tash112194]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- My fiance's chameleon: 1 year, adult female veiled chameleon. (From now on: Anastasia)
- My original chameleon: 1 months, adult male veiled chameleon. (From now on: Rasputin)
- My most recently deceased chameleon: 4 months, baby-juvenile female veiled chameleon. (From now on: Penelope)
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? - every day/every other day for Rasputin, once a week for Anastasia - she only likes my fiance, Penelope - almost never, she hated being handled.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? - I buy crickets from Petco, I believe they are gut loaded but not 100% sure, we feed them Fluker's Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet, we make sure there is always some food in the cage, but only buy crickets once a week or so. We have meal worms and wax worms in bowls in their cages.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? - Answered in my reply above.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? We mist around 5 times a day for 30 seconds to a minute, completely drenching the cage. I usually don't stick around long after misting, but see them drinking around every other day, or opening their mouths when I mist them.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Brown, solid to slightly watery, once in a while yellow or white and crusty. Never tested for parasites.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Anastasia has some tail damage from having MBD when we first got her. She was the first one we had from a pet store and with the disease so by the time we figured out that it wasn't "cute" that she was grabbing her tail she had killed the last half inch of it.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? - Mesh screen cages, Anastasia 18x18x24, Penelope 18x18x18, Rasputin 24x24x48
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Using Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp Fixtures, with 100W bulbs, on at 6:30am off at about 8:00 pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Lowest overnight temp is 68 degrees, Temperature range from 68-80 degrees
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity levels from 50-70%, we have live plants in the bottom of the cage and mist frequently to keep the humidity levels up.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Have bonsai trees in Anastasia's and Rasputin's cages, have an ivy plant in Penelope's cage
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? The cages are on a wall that has a heating vent, since it is winter where I am and we didn't want them in a direct line of the door. They are in a semi-high traffic area, as in we have to walk by them to get to the kitchen or bathroom, but it's only my boyfriend and I in our apartment. Cages are 4 feet off the floor.
Location - Where are you geographically located? New England Area

 

[GCash]

First thing I notice is you could be overdosing D3. Might be better to use plain calcium regularly and cal D3 weekly/bi-weekly depending on amount in your specific brand and needs. If you know your chameleons have MBD liquid calcium would be even better. You also mentioned you have two 100w bulbs but not what specific type. If you have a 100w heat lamp and 100w mercury vapor bulb for UVB, it could be way too much heat especially for the smaller two cages. You only gave one set of temps and one set of light fixture specs. I don't see how the smallest cage could have the same temps as the larger one with the info you've given. How are you measuring them? And the last thing I'd say is to never assume that petco gutloads the crickets for you, and the orange cubes are worthless from what I hear. Check out the general care section, this forum and its members are a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. Good luck!

 

[kinyonga]

You said they all came to you with MBD? What was done to correct the MBD?

 

[Carlton]

First thing I notice is you could be overdosing D3. Might be better to use plain calcium regularly and cal D3 weekly/bi-weekly depending on amount in your specific brand and needs. If you know your chameleons have MBD liquid calcium would be even better. You also mentioned you have two 100w bulbs but not what specific type. If you have a 100w heat lamp and 100w mercury vapor bulb for UVB, it could be way too much heat especially for the smaller two cages. You only gave one set of temps and one set of light fixture specs. I don't see how the smallest cage could have the same temps as the larger one with the info you've given. How are you measuring them? And the last thing I'd say is to never assume that petco gutloads the crickets for you, and the orange cubes are worthless from what I hear. Check out the general care section, this forum and its members are a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. Good luck!

Yes, I also think there were nutritional problems going on in these chams. Unless you feed your insects daily BEFORE giving them to the cham, they are basically empty crunchy things. They are only as nutritious as their diet is. Most pet stores hardly feed their insects or if they do its not very well. And, sounds as if your dusting schedule was incorrect as already said.

And, it does sound like the lighting was too much for them. They could dehydrate quickly if too hot and dry, and this would compound the nutritional problems.