Unknown Sickness

[The Bearded Derek]

My chameleon seems to be having some bad stuff happening to him and I don't know what's wrong with him (He's my first chameleon)

He seems to be a bit lethargic, I think he may have some MBD on his arms. His mouth is greyish (on the inside) his eyes are sunken (I know that means he's not drinking water) and he's getting skinnier. He only eats crickets (Sometimes small beetles or worms that come with the crickets). Since I noticed he's been getting skinnier (He stopped eating a lot about a month and a half ago) so I held him and tried hand feeding him. Instead of normally eating it off my hand, he hissed, and lunged at it, I let him lunge at it a few times to see if he would eat it that way. During one of the lunges he accidentally bit my finger and I've been told their bites hurt, sometimes drawing blood, but his bite was barely hard at all, about as hard as an small anole's bite. Then just yesterday I saw his eyes differently, I didn't think it was anything. And now today they're pretty sunken in, which is why I'm worried and now posting this. I'm not sure if by the end of his lip (The brown spot) is mouth rot, he has it on both sides, but him being a chameleon and being able to change colors, I'm not so sure.

He's a male, 5-6 month old veiled chameleon. I've had him since he was a month old.

I handle him occasionally in attempts to try and tame him or to observe him if he has something on him.

I haven't given him much supplements at all, I've given him calcium but with D3, and I was afraid of giving him a D3 overdose, so I only gave it to him in large quantities (About 3 medium sized crickets covered in complete white powder) about once a month. I now have vitamins (Beta carotene) and Calcium without D3, problem is how is he gonna eat them now if apparently he's lost his appetite?

I haven't seen his poop, I can't find any fresh ones at least.

His cage is small, about 2 feet tall, a foot wide and a foot long

He has a 75 watt bulb for heat and a UVB bulb. Hottest part can be about 95 degrees while the coolest is about 75.

Humidity tends to be about 55-75, never been lower than 50.

He's had a Swedish ivy and an umbrella plant but they're dead and dried now.

He's in my sister's room, about 10 feet away from the air vent. I'm in South Florida.

I spray water in his cage twice a day (Morning and Night, occasionally mid day)

Someone please reply quickly

 

[RobSquared]

VET STAT!!!

Maybe throw in a dripper to help motivate drinking until the vet. And get a bigger enclosure. Or make one. That is the smallest enclosure I have ever heard of. I honestly wouldnt even put babies in a cage that small.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

I got the cage measurements wrong, I just measured it by looking at it, I forgot the brand but I'm pretty sure it's an Exo Terra small cage. 18W x 12Lx 22T is the actual measurement, he's pretty small too, he's only about 3.8 inches from nose to vent. I can take a picture in a comparison with him if you like. Hell, when I got him (In a Repticon that was selling quite a lot of them and seemed to know his stuff) I had him in a 10g aquarium for 2 months (The guy told me to put it in there but for no more than a month) which is when he had a respiratory infection. I got this mesh cage and ever since that, he's never been wheezing like before.

I have a dripper but I never got to install it because I never had time and seemed okay from drinking out of the sprays (That's how it gets its humidity too)

Forgot to mention he barely grabs on to anything, at least while climbing on hands. He tries walking around, moving his foot a lot, almost like checking as if it was a stable "Branch" but when he grabs on, he doesn't use much force. I put him to the side and he slips off after a while, too.

I've been told they turn black when they're sick or unhealthy, sometimes he's a darkish brown but never has been black.

I have a friend that has a gecko that isn't eating and bought a gel supplement of some sort that apparently makes them want to eat, so far it seemed to be working for him, not sure if I should put it on for my chameleon.

 

[kinyonga]

The right arm ks showing signs of MBD. His weak grip and his foot searching for he branch or something to grip are indicative of poor muscle function that comes with calcium deficiency. He needs this to be corrected ASAP.

To correct MBD you need to have a vet give him some injections of calcium and you need to give him some liquid calcium sandoz or gluconate carefully so he won't aspirate it. This needs to continue until his blood calcium levels are normal and his bones strong again.

As well as this you eed to correct the husbandry....supplements, feeding / gutloading the insects, etc.

The insects should. Be dusted just before feeding them to him with a phosphorous - free calcium powder at most feedings. This helps to make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects .

It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium / D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving the chameleon to produce the rest of the D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. UVB from supplements can build up in the system and lead to overdoses but D3 from exposure to UVB won't likely build up as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB when it wants to.

It's also recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene ( prOformed ) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to overdoses like prEformed sources can. This leaves it up to you to decide whether the chameleon needs prEformed or not.

Crickets, locusts, superworms, roaches can be fed a wide range of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.

Appropriate temperatures allow for proper digestion and thus play a role in nutrient absorption.

Water should be provided by misting the leaves and by suing a dripper.

You left it for a long time before asking for help. I hope he will make it.

You can ask the vet about the mouth rot. I can't tell from the photos.

 

[carbyville]

Definitely agree that he needs a much bigger enclosure. My veiled is around the same age and is in a 24x24x48 screened cage.

Also, his basking spot is too warm. For veileds it should be around 85 degrees max for his age.

Supplementation needs to be consistent. Calcium without D3 every single feeding, calcium with D3 AND a multivitamin twice a month. Since he's not eating, that might be tougher to start but just try to keep him hydrated until you can see a vet. He looks awfully starved of water

I hope you can figure out what's wrong and he pulls through.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

How much would the injections cost? I have a Leo that I've gotten from a guy that didn't want it anymore and was giving it away. Turns out it has a respiratory infection, some sort of slime covering both his eyes, an abscess on his right eye, a few toe tips lost, and mouth rot. Just for covering all of that would be more than $300, so I don't know if I could immediately take him to the vet as I wouldn't have that much money left over. Just a visit to the place costs $75.

I would've gotten a medium sized cage but he barely moves either, he only goes to the hotspot, on the floor to poop and his cold/hiding spot.

I dusted the crickets by getting a tall cup, putting them in there with the calcium and shake it up. At first when I got him I used to give it to him every single day, until I saw all this white stuff coming out of his nose. I read that his salt glands are there and that's where it comes out from. It also said that if it does it excessively, I'm giving too much calcium. So I lowered it the amount by a lot.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yikes! This poor baby needs to see a vet as soon as possible. He has many broken legs. Just because a leg is broken because of "metabolic bone disease" does not mean it doesn't hurt as much as one broken by an accident.

Your chameleon looks seriously dehydrated based on his sunken eyes and emaciated body. He might also be emaciated, but dehydration will make it look much worse.

Please, get this animal to a vet. If not to treat him at least to put him out of its misery, and believe me he is suffering. Do not handle him. Handling him will only hurt a lot him as he struggles to escape on broken, twisted legs. Put him in a small cage with no branches to climb or fall from. Keep him as stress free as possible. Please, do the right thing for this suffering animal.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yikes! This poor baby needs to see a vet as soon as possible. He has many broken legs. Just because a leg is broken because of "metabolic bone disease" does not mean it doesn't hurt as much as one broken by an accident.

Your chameleon looks seriously dehydrated based on his sunken eyes and emaciated body. He might also be emaciated, but dehydration will make it look much worse.

Please, get this animal to a vet. If not to treat him at least to put him out of its misery, and believe me he is suffering. Do not handle him. Handling him will only hurt a lot him as he struggles to escape on broken, twisted legs. Put him in a small cage with no branches to climb or fall from. Keep him as stress free as possible. Please, do the right thing for this suffering animal.

It would appear you are unwilling pay to treat a gravely sick animal that will be a challenge to make well again. Do the animal a favor and take him to a vet to euthanize him.

 

[kinyonga]

The leopard gecko needs vet attention ASAP too.

If you are going to take on animals then you need to be ready to take them to the vet when needed and to look after them responsibly.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

The leopard gecko needs vet attention ASAP too.

If you are going to take on animals then you need to be ready to take them to the vet when needed and to look after them responsibly.

I know I have to, but when I got him I was unaware he was really sick, and when I noticed he was sick, it was too late, I already him at the cage. Can't just return it to the guy. I wouldn't have gotten the gecko otherwise, even more so the fact it's a male. (I have a perfectly healthy male and female breeding pair, as you may know, I can't have 2 males in 1 cage)

I can treat the chameleon, I just need to know how much it is. I can't just go there and hope it's only $100 and it end up being $1,000. I don't have money for that (That's if its more than $300), I have things to pay, I'm sorry if I might sound like a d*ck but I just can't. I never had a sick reptile (That was mine), so I wasn't prepared.

 

[kinyonga]

You should be able to take them both to the vet at the same time. It might save you some money.

How are you caring for the gecko? Answer the same questions we ask to be answered for the chameleon and post a photo or two.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

Right now the gecko's abscess is getting bigger by the week, the boss from a reptile store near me told me I can poke the hole in the middle with a needle and squeeze the pus out. Bad thing is it will hurt the gecko very badly, so I'll leave that to a vet. Inside his mouth he has some sort of sores which he said I can treat it with hydrogenated water and a cotton swab. For the mouth rot, he said to pour water around the wounds on his mouth and rub it with cotton and after a few days to try and force feed him, I fed him a small cricket which he ate it by himself, I just had to open his mouth. I forgot what he said about the eyes.

What photos would you like me to post for the Chameleon? There's really nothing else wrong with him other than what the first photos show. Except for his grey mouth, which should be pink but it is a very faded pink.

 

[Carlton]

Right now the gecko's abscess is getting bigger by the week, the boss from a reptile store near me told me I can poke the hole in the middle with a needle and squeeze the pus out. Bad thing is it will hurt the gecko very badly, so I'll leave that to a vet. Inside his mouth he has some sort of sores which he said I can treat it with hydrogenated water and a cotton swab. For the mouth rot, he said to pour water around the wounds on his mouth and rub it with cotton and after a few days to try and force feed him, I fed him a small cricket which he ate it by himself, I just had to open his mouth. I forgot what he said about the eyes.

What photos would you like me to post for the Chameleon?

Wow, I would never poke a needle into an abscess on any creature! The pus in herp abscesses isn't liquid like it is in mammals, and it won't drain very easily. That would be very very painful and probably won't cure the underlying problem. Pretty irresponsible as you can see that the infection is spreading.

I would ignore the "advice" you are getting from this shop boss and take your animals to a qualified herp vet. By treating these mouth sores incorrectly you will cause a lot of suffering and may well make the problem worse, or enable the infection to spread.

 

[kinyonga]

I wanted photos of the gecko and wanted you to answer the same questions for the gecko that we ask people to answer for their chameleons when they want help.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

Wow, I would never poke a needle into an abscess on any creature! The pus in herp abscesses isn't liquid like it is in mammals, and it won't drain very easily. That would be very very painful and probably won't cure the underlying problem. Pretty irresponsible as you can see that the infection is spreading.

I would ignore the "advice" you are getting from this shop boss and take your animals to a qualified herp vet. By treating these mouth sores incorrectly you will cause a lot of suffering and may well make the problem worse, or enable the infection to spread.

I trusted him being he's the only reptile store owner in town, plus all his animals look healthy and some are breeding, the male gecko which I bought from him is healthy too.

He seemed believable too in the fact that he didn't recommend me the vet right away (He did, in the end) and that he always doesn't use the vet, in the sense that he absolutely can't substitute something else for a vet (Hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say, kind of difficult to explain the way I'm thinking of it) and the guy obviously has some experience since he has geckos (Leos, African FTs, and cresties), Monitors, (Argus and Asian water) Bearded Dragons, and Ball pythons in his shop while appearing healthy.

Gimme a second I'll post a few pictures of the geckos(In the end, I know I'm just gonna be highly recommended a vet anyway, regardless of the wounds/sickness), and I already posted all the pictures for the chameleon that has something bad that is obvious, other than the inside of the mouth, and of course, a mouth shot requires him to be pissed and stressed, not only that but he'd need to stay still for me to get a clear picture, which he may close his mouth in just a few seconds, ending up in him getting stressed for nothing.

I didn't say anything about the gecko knowing this is a Chameleon forum, not a gecko forum, where I had already made a post for him there. I'm also more concerned about the chameleon knowing he's more susceptible to die in the conditions he's in compared to the gecko.

The gecko is a male Leo, I'm not sure of the age, but he is very big, at least more than 3-4 years old.
I have a small heating pad for him, a hide, and a water bowl with calcium inside mixed with the water.
He's in a 10g tank with Paper towels.(Same one I used for the chameleon when I first got him)
He's only eaten that one cricket 4 days ago, besides that, he hasn't eaten anything in 2 months. (I tried giving him food, but he never wanted it, and he can't see it either) But he does have a decently fat tail, I'd say if he'd die of starvation, It would probably take a year

 

[The Bearded Derek]

http://geckoforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=70971&d=1436188720
http://geckoforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=70972&d=1436188743
http://geckoforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=70974&d=1436188788

These are old pictures, the shed is all off, the abscess is twice as big, his tail is very slightly thinner, and his lip is about the same.

 

[kinyonga]

Can't see the pictures because I don't belong to that forum.

 

[Candybugs]

He needs calcium like 3 xs a week on 10 crickets and 1 x a week calcium with d3 and uvb asap it's mbd I lost a chameleon to it. Her arms looked like your guys arms. Good luck.

 

[The Bearded Derek]

I think my chameleon may die, today he's a lot more lethargic. Luckily I tried opening his mouth and drop some water with calcium. He spat a bit of it out but he drank it and swallowed it eventually. Give me a minute or so, it's confusing adding attachments on phone.

 

[Candybugs]

I have a dragon who's been on antibiotics and a medicated ointment for the mouth rot. The mouth rot is usually accompanied by another issue or infection. The vet is what I would do asap.