unnecessary medication

[JapSolum]

• Your Chameleon - male veiled, 2-3 months old, I've had him a month
• Handling - normally once a week, had to handle him past few days to give him meds
• Feeding - so far just crickets dusted with calcium. and calcium+ once a week, gut loading them with a variety of fruits and veggies, oranges, arugula, flax seed kiwi, trying to keep phosphorus low
• Supplements - using the basic multivitamin that comes with the zoo med tank, once a month along with calcium plus weekly
• Watering - have a dripper in tank and misting 2-3 times a day but never actually seen him drink
• Fecal Description - urate has been white for the most part though sometimes I notice a hint of yellow at the tip, feces is dark brown
• History - not much since I just got him but has seemed pretty happy

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 16x16x30 screen but have 2 sides closed off as I live in colorado and it's hard to keep humidity up
• lighting - 60 watt grow/basking light, t5 5.0 uvb tube light from reptisun
• Temperature - 85 baking spot 75 towards middle/bottom of cage, I have two thermometers
• humidity - 50-55 most of the time will spike to 75 after misting, have a reptifoggor to keep it there but since infection stopped the fogger and added more mistings
• Plants - weeping fig
• Placement - backed against wall and dresser on two sides cage is about 2 feet off ground making it 4 and a half tall all together, low traffic area.
• Location - colorado, towards mountains, about 6500 elevation
• worried about - so lizzy recently started wheezing accompanied by occasional pops, and saw a spit bubble came out of his mouth. immediately assumed it was ri. so I called a vet and they had an opening in like 30 mins so i rushed to get him over there. gave me baytril for 2 weeks, but said i caught it really early so if hes symptom free after a week i could stop. i didn't have time to grab a fecal sample and since he had never been tested for parasites she gave me something for that too. she was a reptile vet but seemed unsure about chameleons, giving a lot more "maybes" and "probablys" than "yes" and "nos". my main questions are, would you stop baytril after a week since it's hard on their kidneys, or keep going to make sure infection is gone? and I'd love the security of knowing hes parasite free, but if he already was, do you think taking meds for it could cause any harm?

 

[JacksJill]

Keep the meds for the parasites and drop a fecal off at the vets to find out for sure. You already paid for the exam so they should just charge you for the fecal. They should be able to give you the results that day. Not all parasite meds treat all of the possible parasites. It's best to just treat what you know you have.
I don't know about the baytril but I would absolutely treat for the week prescribed.
I don't know your vets level of expertise but it is very hard to diagnose any thing with certainty on an animal too small to run blood work or other diagnostics. Without culturing the infection even what antibiotic to use is guess work. Baytril treats a lot of things so is the common starting point. I'm sure you know either way to keep him well hydrated and warm to help fight the infection.

 

[JapSolum]

Keep the meds for the parasites and drop a fecal off at the vets to find out for sure. You already paid for the exam so they should just charge you for the fecal. They should be able to give you the results that day. Not all parasite meds treat all of the possible parasites. It's best to just treat what you know you have.
I don't know about the baytril but I would absolutely treat for the week prescribed.
I don't know your vets level of expertise but it is very hard to diagnose any thing with certainty on an animal too small to run blood work or other diagnostics. Without culturing the infection even what antibiotic to use is guess work. Baytril treats a lot of things so is the common starting point. I'm sure you know either way to keep him well hydrated and warm to help fight the infection.

well they didn't run blood work but they did get saliva sample from his mouth and checked that out, said she found some "bar" bacteria in there but then said "could be ecoli or something, I'm not sure if that's normal in them" hence reason I'm not 100% on their chameleon expertise. but yes plenty of warmth and hydration, haven't heard his wheezing or pops in past couple days so I think that's a good sign.

 

[NickTide]

When did the symptoms stop? After how many days? I am no vet and never treated a cham for bacterial infection but if the symptoms stopped in like a day or two, I would probably stop the treatment. If it took longer, I would keep going for an extra day or two. If it took a week, I would keep going full course. You do not want the bacteria to build a resistance and come back with vengeance.

The Baytrill is liquid I assume? You could call the vet and see if maybe going to half dose for a few days is a good idea to ensure it's gone.

 

[JacksJill]

Don't stop an antibiotic before the minimum time prescribed if there is any lingering bacteria they can rebound and be resistant to that antibiotic and you will have to start all over again. You will have to decide if the minimum time is enough. I see why you don't have great confidence in your vet.
Glad it's working so far.

 

[Mawtyplant]

have a reptifoggor to keep it there but since infection stopped the fogger and added more mistings

raise your temperature up to 95 at the hot spot, decrease your humidity level. Reptifogger should be strated only at night when temperatures are coolder

 

[JapSolum]

thanks for the advice everybody, thought it would be good to mix medical advice from somebody with limited cham knowledge, along with people who may not be medical but have more experience with the species. heard him wheeze again today but it was as I was giving him medicine and might have just been him being pissed at me. seeming better though

 

[jajeanpierre]

When did the symptoms stop? After how many days? I am no vet and never treated a cham for bacterial infection but if the symptoms stopped in like a day or two, I would probably stop the treatment. If it took longer, I would keep going for an extra day or two. If it took a week, I would keep going full course. You do not want the bacteria to build a resistance and come back with vengeance.

The Baytrill is liquid I assume? You could call the vet and see if maybe going to half dose for a few days is a good idea to ensure it's gone.

WRONG WRONG WRONG--You must continue on treating after the symptoms go away for the very reason you gave in the last sentence of your first paragraph.

The OP needs to follow the vet's advice.

 

[jajeanpierre]

well they didn't run blood work but they did get saliva sample from his mouth and checked that out, said she found some "bar" bacteria in there but then said "could be ecoli or something, I'm not sure if that's normal in them" hence reason I'm not 100% on their chameleon expertise. but yes plenty of warmth and hydration, haven't heard his wheezing or pops in past couple days so I think that's a good sign.

I like vets who give maybe this and probably that rather than being positive they know everything. Chameleons are a hard animal to diagnose and treat, especially one so young. I have a feeling your vet is @ferretinmyshoes and you are very, very lucky to have found her.

 

[JapSolum]

I like vets who give maybe this and probably that rather than being positive they know everything. Chameleons are a hard animal to diagnose and treat, especially one so young. I have a feeling your vet is @ferretinmyshoes and you are very, very lucky to have found her.

I doubt it, shed admitted not having much experience with chameleons so I doubt shed be a member on the forum. I get the maybe and probably as well, a LOT of things with chams are purely situational and the there's not a set rule book for chams. what bothered me was the "bar bacteria could be something like ecoli, which may be normal I. chameleons, I dont know" tbh I wasn't even planning on asking about the antibiotics. I just threw that one in at the end since I got to it early, symptoms are fading fast, and I've heard baytril is hard on kidneys. my main question was about perscribing the dewormer without knowing if he had it and if that could cause harm or not.

 

[Mawtyplant]

WRONG WRONG WRONG--You must continue on treating after the symptoms go away for the very reason you gave in the last sentence of your first paragraph.

The OP needs to follow the vet's advice.

Jajean is right you know.. and this is right for EVERY speacies (including human) if you stop the treatment when the symptoms back off.. you might create a super-bacteria resistant to the antibiotic

 

[JapSolum]

yeah I'm planning on keeping up with meds till it's gone. think imma get him out for some fresh air and sun the next couple days too while it's nice out.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I doubt it, shed admitted not having much experience with chameleons so I doubt shed be a member on the forum. I get the maybe and probably as well, a LOT of things with chams are purely situational and the there's not a set rule book for chams. what bothered me was the "bar bacteria could be something like ecoli, which may be normal I. chameleons, I dont know" tbh I wasn't even planning on asking about the antibiotics. I just threw that one in at the end since I got to it early, symptoms are fading fast, and I've heard baytril is hard on kidneys. my main question was about perscribing the dewormer without knowing if he had it and if that could cause harm or not.

Baytril is not particularly hard on kidneys. There are antibiotics that are nephrotoxic (toxic to kidneys) but Baytril isn't one of them.

What meds were you given for parasites? Some are pretty easy on them and others are very dangerous. You should never deworm any animal that is compromised, and your chameleon appears to be having problems, so wait a few months.

 

[JapSolum]

Baytril is not particularly hard on kidneys. There are antibiotics that are nephrotoxic (toxic to kidneys) but Baytril isn't one of them.

What meds were you given for parasites? Some are pretty easy on them and others are very dangerous. You should never deworm any animal that is compromised, and your chameleon appears to be having problems, so wait a few months.

meds I was given is panacur, gave me 9 doses and told me to do 3 days with meds and 7 without, then repeat 3 times. that being said, I already finished the first set, and by the start of the second, hes going to be on the tail end of his antibiotics. still suggest holding off on the dewormer? just asking since I know you also had a firm stance on following vets advice.

 

[Mawtyplant]

meds I was given is panacur, gave me 9 doses and told me to do 3 days with meds and 7 without, then repeat 3 times. that being said, I already finished the first set, and by the start of the second, hes going to be on the tail end of his antibiotics. still suggest holding off on the dewormer? just asking since I know you also had a firm stance on following vets advice.

there is no great danger with panacure so i suggest you to finish the treatment. Did the vet make some fecal test?

 

[NickTide]

WRONG WRONG WRONG--You must continue on treating after the symptoms go away for the very reason you gave in the last sentence of your first paragraph.

The OP needs to follow the vet's advice.

Vet said he could stop after a week if the symptoms are gone.

 

[jajeanpierre]

meds I was given is panacur, gave me 9 doses and told me to do 3 days with meds and 7 without, then repeat 3 times. that being said, I already finished the first set, and by the start of the second, hes going to be on the tail end of his antibiotics. still suggest holding off on the dewormer? just asking since I know you also had a firm stance on following vets advice.

Panacur is really easy on them. Finish the panacur.

Follow the vet's advice on the Baytril.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Vet said he could stop after a week if the symptoms are gone.

You said if the symptoms stopped after a day or two you would stop treatment. What you wrote suggests you would stop after a day or two. Perhaps you meant you would stop after a week of treatment as per vet's advice but that is not what you wrote. I am sure others would have misunderstood what you wrote.

 

[NickTide]

You said if the symptoms stopped after a day or two you would stop treatment. What you wrote suggests you would stop after a day or two. Perhaps you meant you would stop after a week of treatment as per vet's advice but that is not what you wrote. I am sure others would have misunderstood what you wrote.

The options were to quit after a week or go longer. If you misunderstood, or even if I was WRONG WRONG WRONG, you still dont need to act pompous.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The options were to quit after a week or go longer. If you misunderstood, or even if I was WRONG WRONG WRONG, you still dont need to act pompous.

You were giving your opinion; you were not recommending the person follow the vet's advice. You never once mentioned following the vet's advice, it was all about what you would do even though you admitted you had zero experience treating infections. Don't be surprised when experienced keepers respond strongly to what they perceive as very dangerous misinformation. Just because you meant to write something, doesn't mean you actually wrote it.

Many people give advice that is dangerous to chameleons. I see it all the time. Rather than being critical of me for reacting to some bad advice you gave--which was to stop after one or two days--you should be thankful that maybe I cleaned up your message.

Calling me names does nothing to further chameleon keeping.