Urgent: Help Needed

[GumbyTheVeiled]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon, got her right at sexual maturity so around 9-12 months and I've had her since Fall of 2014.
• Handling - Very rarely, she was friendlier when she was younger, but became less socialable with age.
• Feeding - Gutloaded crickets using Fluker's and homemade gutload, as well as large superworms. 5-6 crickets per feeding, and 2-3 worms per feeding. Fed on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with sometimes a weekend. Fluker's orange cubes and a homemade gutload made of papaya, squash, and carrot.
• Supplements - Repticalcium with and without D3 along with herptivite. With D3 and herptivite are given once every two weeks, and without D3 is given almost daily but was reduced as extra calcium was forming around her nose.
• Watering - Hand misted three times a day with a pressure mister, and also has a Lil' Dripper. She prefers for me to drip water directly into her mouth, and I always see her drink.
• Fecal Description - Never has had any orange urination, always solid white or off white. Same is for her fecal matter, never runny and always a dark color. She has never been tested for parasites.
• History - Found via Craigslist from someone who owned a bearded as well, but was getting rid of all his reptiles in favor of dogs. Claimed he bought her from the local Petland (yikes). He’d done his own small bit of research outside of what the associates give you, however, and she was in her current cage with all the minimum fixings. She came with; an extra large ReptiBreeze, a ZooMed reptifogger, two large Exo Terra vines, two plastic plants, one silk plant, a waterfall (don’t get me started), two separate dome fixtures, an aquarium style fake ground plant, and herself. I believe I paid $200 total for everything, I can’t complain. As far as this person knew, she was male. Upon first seeing her I could already tell she wasn’t male, but regardless she was friendly and I have a soft spot for adopting animals. No signs of health problems when I first got her, came home just fine (if not stressed, first and only time she’s turned black), and settled in no problem. Laid her first clutch of eggs about a month later; her previous owner had never seen her lay eggs since he was told she was male and I’m not sure whether he just prevented from laying eggs or she just reached sexual maturity with me. She has had a cm of her tail surgically removed due to necrosis, but besides that no other medical emergencies. I’ve moved towns with her twice, probably twenty miles distance total.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ReptiBreeze extra large (24"x24"x48") screen cage.
• Lighting - Currently a combo dome fixture with a 60 watt basking bulb and Exo Terra compact tropical UVB 100. She wakes up at 8 every morning, and goes to bed around the same time every night.
• Temperature - Basking spot is usually in the 90s while the bottom of the cage is low 80s. Lowest overnight temp is a high 70 or low 80. Tempatures are taken with a digital thermometer with probe.
• Humidity - Humidity without misting is always in the 50s, with misting is stable 60s up to 70s. Regular misting rountines, and natural humidity keep the numbers where they are.
• Plants - No live plants.
• Placement - Cage is located in my "reptile room" which was at one point a bathroom, but was made into just a room with tile flooring. Her cage is placed atop a children's table so she is higher up than anyone else, and traffic in the area is next to none.
• Location - Iowa, USA.

Current Problem - She laid a batch of eggs per usual, but it was especially warm that week (about last week). She was a little dehydrated so I gave her a shower followed by an electrolyte soak hoping it'd perk her up. Her grip strengthened, and she was a little bit more alert. Within these past few days however her eating has gone from next to none to nothing at all, and her hissy spunky behavior had been switched for a lethargic, weak one. I believe she has one singular egg she wasn't able to lay that she may be bound with. Her grip is still crazy strong currently, but I found her literally laying sprawled style on the floor today. I've continued doing my best and monitoring everything closely, I'm flabbergasted though, and devastated I might have done something to hurt my sweet lady.

Here are some pictures of her set-up, her current colors, and where I believe the egg is stuck.

 

[kinyonga]

She's really not looking well at all. I'm not sure if it could be a problem from egglaying or that she's sick or that she's showing signs of old age and is near death because of that..but she is near death. Do you have a few pictures of her over the last few months? I want to say to get her to a vet immediately but then it might be too late too. Sorry to have to tell you this.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

She's really not looking well at all. I'm not sure if it could be a problem from egglaying or that she's sick or that she's showing signs of old age and is near death because of that..but she is near death. Do you have a few pictures of her over the last few months? I want to say to get her to a vet immediately but then it might be too late too. Sorry to have to tell you this.

I can tell she is...I just can feel it in the way she's changed. She was chipper and herself up to the egg batch she just laid, so I'm torn between it being the bound egg (which I'm fairly sure she has, it's an oval shaped mound near her lower stomach) or just plain old age. The nearest vet is Davenport which I know for sure, but I know their hours too so the soonest I can rush is tommorow. I don't take photos of her too often, but I do have a video of her taking her morning drink May 19th which was almost a month from now. I can link it, it's on my personal Instagram however.
https://instagram.com/p/BURnIGqBfmj/

 

[kinyonga]

Her tail looks honey even in that video and I think her eye is somewhat sunken there too....so whatever is wrong with her was already started then I think.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

Her tail looks honey even in that video and I think her eye is somewhat sunken there too....so whatever is wrong with her was already started then I think.

She never showed any signs of discomfort, and ate the same day as the video. I just...I don't understand. If she's sick I can accept that, but I need to know why. I understand her entire life is in my hands, so if she dies it's my fault. Do you think a vet could help at this point? Did I essentially cause this? I just want some sort of idea where I went wrong. I thought I was giving her all her needs, and I'm just a crying, confused mess.

 

[kinyonga]

The white stuff around her nostrils is not/was not calcium...it's salts of other elements smothered no reason to cut the calcium down.
I would recommend adding greens and veggies such as squash, zucchini, kale, dandelion greens, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, endive, escarole, etc to your gutload. I would forget the orange cubes too.

It's possible that her care before you got her is playing a part in this or that she was older than you were told when you got her....so don't be too hard on yourself.

My problem is that I'm not a vet and all Incan do is tell you what I think. I can't be sure a vet can save her but I think it's her only chance....but she might not even make it to the vet. Wish I could give you better news.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

The white stuff around her nostrils is not/was not calcium...it's salts of other elements smothered no reason to cut the calcium down.
I would recommend adding greens and veggies such as squash, zucchini, kale, dandelion greens, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, endive, escarole, etc to your gutload. I would forget the orange cubes too.

It's possible that her care before you got her is playing a part in this or that she was older than you were told when you got her....so don't be too hard on yourself.

My problem is that I'm not a vet and all Incan do is tell you what I think. I can't be sure a vet can save her but I think it's her only chance....but she might not even make it to the vet. Wish I could give you better news.

I cut it down to dusting calcium on the crickets only instead of both the crickets and superworms. Thank you for explaining that though, it helps me correct any false information I'm under the impression of.
A different kind of squash maybe? I've experimented around with gutloads a little, and that was just the description of the latest batch. I've tried sweet potato, kale, bee pollen, and spinach to name a few others. Drop the Fluker's all together, got it, I only use it to hydrate the crickets anyways. I weigh her pretty regularly since she lays eggs, her diet wasn't terrible for keeping her where she was (maybe a little chunky), but I would love to incorporate some hornsworms.

I can only assume the care beforehand wasn't superb since the owner thought SHE was a HE to begin with, and was running a basic Petco style set-up. I can't be exact on her age either, just approximating due to the fact she laid her first ever egg batch with me. I know for sure she's at least 3 years and a few months old since that's the length I've had her.

I apologize I don't mean to come here hoping you'll have all the answers to my questions. It's a devastating feeling is all, to love something so much, and put hard continuous effort in to keeping them happy and well, only for them to end up getting sick and possibly passing away anyways. She's still responsive for now, and if she can make it to 8 AM I'll do everything in my power to be there at the vet as soon as the doors open.

 

[Andee]

I agree, she is relatively old for a veiled female especially one worse been laying successful batches as they usually do. And since she did show some symptoms of slowly going downhill I wouldn't be surprised if old age just caught up with her. Most veiled females who aren't spayed don't live passed 4 years unless you a super lucky. The thing is she sounds like she started off in a bad place, so she could have had some kidney damage from it.

You likely didn't cause it, but I agree with kinyonga the only way she will get better is to see a vet at this point. But she may not make it, but that doesn't mean you don't try when you can get her there. If she holds on I agree it's worth a shot. And no, @kinyonga wasn't saying that, just wanted to let you know we sadly won't be able to fix it, though god knows we wish we could so many times over. <3 I hope she is able to pull through and turn around to live a couple more happy years with you <3

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

I agree, she is relatively old for a veiled female especially one worse been laying successful batches as they usually do. And since she did show some symptoms of slowly going downhill I wouldn't be surprised if old age just caught up with her. Most veiled females who aren't spayed don't live passed 4 years unless you a super lucky. The thing is she sounds like she started off in a bad place, so she could have had some kidney damage from it.

You likely didn't cause it, but I agree with kinyonga the only way she will get better is to see a vet at this point. But she may not make it, but that doesn't mean you don't try when you can get her there. If she holds on I agree it's worth a shot. And no, @kinyonga wasn't saying that, just wanted to let you know we sadly won't be able to fix it, though god knows we wish we could so many times over. <3 I hope she is able to pull through and turn around to live a couple more happy years with you <3

It's an almost two hour drive there, but if she will hang in the entire way I'll be leaving 6:30 from where I live to get here there, and just simply state it's an emergency. Again I apologize I wasn't looking for a sudden fix, I just wanted an idea of what was wrong with my once so bright lady to see if I could do anything myself to help. @kinyonga has been a great help, and if she does pull through I'll be applying her advice right away.

 

[kinyonga]

Go easy on the spinach...it can bind calcium so that the chameleon can't use it. I always feel that variety in the gutload is important....just like variety in our diet is important.

As for the age that she laid the first clutch husbandry can play a part I whether veileds lay eggs or not...so the previous owners husbandry could have stopped her from laying.

No need to apologize...I don't have all the answers. It is hard coping with their decline or illnesses. We can only do the best we can.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

Go easy on the spinach...it can bind calcium so that the chameleon can't use it. I always feel that variety in the gutload is important....just like variety in our diet is important.

As for the age that she laid the first clutch husbandry can play a part I whether veileds lay eggsor not...so the previous owners husbandry could have stopped her from laying.

No need to apologize...I don't have all the answers. It is hard cooing with their decline or illnesses. We can only do the best we can.

Thank you again so much. I'll update tommorow how things end up. Fingers crossed for whatever is best for her.

 

[serenaj25]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon, got her right at sexual maturity so around 9-12 months and I've had her since Fall of 2014.
• Handling - Very rarely, she was friendlier when she was younger, but became less socialable with age.
• Feeding - Gutloaded crickets using Fluker's and homemade gutload, as well as large superworms. 5-6 crickets per feeding, and 2-3 worms per feeding. Fed on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with sometimes a weekend. Fluker's orange cubes and a homemade gutload made of papaya, squash, and carrot.
• Supplements - Repticalcium with and without D3 along with herptivite. With D3 and herptivite are given once every two weeks, and without D3 is given almost daily but was reduced as extra calcium was forming around her nose.
• Watering - Hand misted three times a day with a pressure mister, and also has a Lil' Dripper. She prefers for me to drip water directly into her mouth, and I always see her drink.
• Fecal Description - Never has had any orange urination, always solid white or off white. Same is for her fecal matter, never runny and always a dark color. She has never been tested for parasites.
• History - Found via Craigslist from someone who owned a bearded as well, but was getting rid of all his reptiles in favor of dogs. Claimed he bought her from the local Petland (yikes). He’d done his own small bit of research outside of what the associates give you, however, and she was in her current cage with all the minimum fixings. She came with; an extra large ReptiBreeze, a ZooMed reptifogger, two large Exo Terra vines, two plastic plants, one silk plant, a waterfall (don’t get me started), two separate dome fixtures, an aquarium style fake ground plant, and herself. I believe I paid $200 total for everything, I can’t complain. As far as this person knew, she was male. Upon first seeing her I could already tell she wasn’t male, but regardless she was friendly and I have a soft spot for adopting animals. No signs of health problems when I first got her, came home just fine (if not stressed, first and only time she’s turned black), and settled in no problem. Laid her first clutch of eggs about a month later; her previous owner had never seen her lay eggs since he was told she was male and I’m not sure whether he just prevented from laying eggs or she just reached sexual maturity with me. She has had a cm of her tail surgically removed due to necrosis, but besides that no other medical emergencies. I’ve moved towns with her twice, probably twenty miles distance total.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ReptiBreeze extra large (24"x24"x48") screen cage.
• Lighting - Currently a combo dome fixture with a 60 watt basking bulb and Exo Terra compact tropical UVB 100. She wakes up at 8 every morning, and goes to bed around the same time every night.
• Temperature - Basking spot is usually in the 90s while the bottom of the cage is low 80s. Lowest overnight temp is a high 70 or low 80. Tempatures are taken with a digital thermometer with probe.
• Humidity - Humidity without misting is always in the 50s, with misting is stable 60s up to 70s. Regular misting rountines, and natural humidity keep the numbers where they are.
• Plants - No live plants.
• Placement - Cage is located in my "reptile room" which was at one point a bathroom, but was made into just a room with tile flooring. Her cage is placed atop a children's table so she is higher up than anyone else, and traffic in the area is next to none.
• Location - Iowa, USA.

Current Problem - She laid a batch of eggs per usual, but it was especially warm that week (about last week). She was a little dehydrated so I gave her a shower followed by an electrolyte soak hoping it'd perk her up. Her grip strengthened, and she was a little bit more alert. Within these past few days however her eating has gone from next to none to nothing at all, and her hissy spunky behavior had been switched for a lethargic, weak one. I believe she has one singular egg she wasn't able to lay that she may be bound with. Her grip is still crazy strong currently, but I found her literally laying sprawled style on the floor today. I've continued doing my best and monitoring everything closely, I'm flabbergasted though, and devastated I might have done something to hurt my sweet lady.

Here are some pictures of her set-up, her current colors, and where I believe the egg is stuck.
View attachment 184428
View attachment 184429
View attachment 184430

when she layed, did you see the eggs yourself? She might be egg bound and when you thought she was laying she could have been "phantom laying" as some people call it, which is a sign of egg binding

 

[kinyonga]

I've kept veileds for many years and most of my females lived to be at least 6 and often past 7 years. Most of them did not produce eggs all the time. I seemed to be able to control their reproduction with diet and temperature.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

when she layed, did you see the eggs yourself? She might be egg bound and when you thought she was laying she could have been "phantom laying" as some people call it, which is a sign of egg binding

I dug through her laying pot because I worried about the same thing. She laid all of her eggs this time except the one I believe she is still holding. From what I can feel though it's quite literally just the one egg, which seemed peculiar to me.

 

[kinyonga]

Are you sure it's an egg you're feeling?

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

I've kept veileds for many years and most of my females lived to be at least 6 and often past 7 years. Most of them did not produce eggs all the time. I seemed to be able to control their reproduction with diet and temperature.

I know with lesser feedings, and cooler temperatures the reproduction process can be slowed down. I just didn't try anything on my part in fear of altering her previous conditions she was comfortable with too much would cause some sort of adverse effect. I wasn't thinking she'd live forever, but just at least the bare minimum of five years.
It may be stools and urine she hasn't passed, though she's been drinking steadily I can't say I've seen any new fecal matter? It's not her stomach area as much as it is closer to her "vent".

 

[serenaj25]

I know with lesser feedings, and cooler temperatures the reproduction process can be slowed down. I just didn't try anything on my part in fear of altering her previous conditions she was comfortable with too much would cause some sort of adverse effect. I wasn't thinking she'd live forever, but just at least the bare minimum of five years.
It may be stools and urine she hasn't passed, though she's been drinking steadily I can't say I've seen any new fecal matter? It's not her stomach area as much as it is closer to her "vent".

maybe a vet visit with some X Rays could help you better understand what is going on

 

[Andee]

I've kept veileds for many years and most of my females lived to be at least 6 and often past 7 years. Most of them did not produce eggs all the time. I seemed to be able to control their reproduction with diet and temperature.

You and Jannb are magical, I Have yet to go through a female laying moment etc. Because I haven't kept most females, especially the egg makers to where they are old enough to. I have a feeling it's because a lot of people who are aware of the husbandry stuff etc are too soft hearted to feed like they should. Dunno though it finally seems to be catching on ^^ so hopefully more people will not only learn about it but also practice it. As far as this I hope all goes well

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

maybe a vet visit with some X Rays could help you better understand what is going on

She's seeing the nearest reptile vet as soon as they open, they see her for check-ups every couple of months so I'm hoping they'll know or have an idea of how to help her.

 

[GumbyTheVeiled]

You and Jannb are magical, I Have yet to go through a female laying moment etc. Because I haven't kept most females, especially the egg makers to where they are old enough to. I have a feeling it's because a lot of people who are aware of the husbandry stuff etc are too soft hearted to feed like they should. Dunno though it finally seems to be catching on ^^ so hopefully more people will not only learn about it but also practice it. As far as this I hope all goes well

You got me on that one, I'm one of those soft hearted people. I appreciate the best wishes, I hope I can return tomorrow with some positive news.