Using a small enclosure for the first two to four weeks?

[Elliechameleon]

We picked up our Chameleon from a breeder who advised us to use a plastic 60 quart storage container to help acclimate him for the first two to four weeks. I haven't read this being the case with other new Chameleons so I thought I would ask. He is 3.5 months old and we have a 2' X 2' X 4' enclosure ready to go. What is your opinion of this? Thanks

 

[Elliechameleon]

Let me ask this question from a different angle. At what age is it ok to introduce your Cham to the bigger 2'X2'X4' enclosure?

 

[Goose502]

Let me ask this question from a different angle. At what age is it ok to introduce your Cham to the bigger 2'X2'X4' enclosure?

Immediately

 

[salty dog]

I put my 2 month old in a 2x2x4

 

[JuniorC]

Think about it this way, when they are born in the wild they dont have a small living area to live in until they grow up. They are introduced to the big world and have to start adapting and learning to hunt on their own. A lot of people think it's a problem but if you can get them in their adult cage from the beginning then even better

 

[Elliechameleon]

Think about it this way, when they are born in the wild they dont have a small living area to live in until they grow up. They are introduced to the big world and have to start adapting and learning to hunt on their own. A lot of people think it's a problem but if you can get them in their adult cage from the beginning then even better

I agree 100%. Thank you

 

[Beman]

The most important thing is to make sure the feeders are located in one easy to find place. You need to be able to monitor food intake and fecal/urates to make sure he is getting what he needs and has the proper hydration. I love this feeder run... If you try it get the large size so it works for larger feeders when he is big. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleon-shooting-gallery-screened-cage-feeder.169011/

 

[Elliechameleon]

I will be giving the Full Throttle Feeder www.fullthrottlefeeders.com a try.

 

[jamest0o0]

Only thing I could see by this suggestion would be to quarantine.

 

[Elliechameleon]

Moved Sir Fritz over to his new home last night and he was just pissed. He looks ok in the picture but soon after retreated down to the Boston Fern at the bottom of the cage. I will keep an eye on him to make sure he continues to eat and drink water. He did happen to snag two silkworms on his way down out of his new feeder so that’s a good sign.

 

[Beman]

Moved Sir Fritz over to his new home last night and he was just pissed. He looks ok in the picture but soon after retreated down to the Boston Fern at the bottom of the cage. I will keep an eye on him to make sure he continues to eat and drink water. He did happen to snag two silkworms on his way down out of his new feeder so that’s a good sign.

Very normal.... It has been adjustment after adjustment for him. Give him the next 2 weeks to explore and learn his environment. Try not to handle at all while he acclimates.

 

[Elliechameleon]

Very normal.... It has been adjustment after adjustment for him. Give him the next 2 weeks to explore and learn his environment. Try not to handle at all while he acclimates.

Thank you, will do

 

[cyberlocc]

Think about it this way, when they are born in the wild they dont have a small living area to live in until they grow up. They are introduced to the big world and have to start adapting and learning to hunt on their own. A lot of people think it's a problem but if you can get them in their adult cage from the beginning then even better

I see this all the time. I feel like you are ignoring a major crucial detail with that. Of the 30 that hatch, maybe 10 survive, on a good clutch. That argument falls flat when you add in that itty bitty detail. .

Animals that have a ton of eggs, like chams do so for that very reason. Very few survive the initial couple of months. So using what happens in the wild, is an extremely bad argument.

Only thing I could see by this suggestion would be to quarantine.

Good point, may have been what they had in mind as well. I use a soild wall 16x16x30, for QT, but that may have to change soon, now that I am getting into breeding chams and some other species. Thats just not going to be feasible anymore, and the tubs are easy to toss if there is an issue. Vs trying to clean and reuse a 100+ dollar cage.

 

[JuniorC]

I see this all the time. I feel like you are ignoring a major crucial detail with that. Of the 30 that hatch, maybe 10 survive, on a good clutch. That argument falls flat when you add in that itty bitty detail. .



Good point, may have been what they had in mind as well. I use a soild wall 16x16x30, for QT, but that may have to change soon, now that I am getting into breeding chams and some other species. Thats just not going to be feasible anymore, and the tubs are easy to toss if there is an issue. Vs trying to clean and reuse a 100+ dollar cage.

Yeah but even the ones that survived survived in the big world they were born in were they not? Now I'm not trying to start a big debate and have you attack my comment just have even heard Bill Strand say himself that if you can put a baby in a big cage then go for it. Just trying to help buddy

 

[jamest0o0]

I see this all the time. I feel like you are ignoring a major crucial detail with that. Of the 30 that hatch, maybe 10 survive, on a good clutch. That argument falls flat when you add in that itty bitty detail. .

Animals that have a ton of eggs, like chams do so for that very reason. Very few survive the initial couple of months. So using what happens in the wild, is an extremely bad argument.




Good point, may have been what they had in mind as well. I use a soild wall 16x16x30, for QT, but that may have to change soon, now that I am getting into breeding chams and some other species. Thats just not going to be feasible anymore, and the tubs are easy to toss if there is an issue. Vs trying to clean and reuse a 100+ dollar cage.

On your survival comment I'm going to have to disagree a little, the ones that are dying I doubt are dying because a lack of food/finding food.

 

[cyberlocc]

Yeah but even the ones that survived survived in the big world they were born in were they not? Now I'm not trying to start a big debate and have you attack my comment just have even heard Bill Strand say himself that if you can put a baby in a big cage then go for it. Just trying to help buddy

I didn't say you cant put a baby in a big cage.

You can, it will likely be fine.

Just saying, that not everyone feels that way, there are of course arguments to both sides, however the wild argument that gets thrown around for this and other debates, is not a reasonable one. The Wild is not some fairy tale land, with feeders abound and perfect basking spots available for everyone. The wild is cruel, hard, and unforgiving place that few survive, not something we are trying to emulate in captivity.


There is also as James said, and I would endorse as well. The argument for separate caging being Parasites. You buy a nice fancy cage, deck it out, with cork bark on the walls, 100s of dollars of plants, CUC Crew that you have been breeding for months, throw that baby in for the vet to tell you 3 days later, your baby has coccida, and all of that work, money and time is now worthless in the dumpster. Everything needs thrown away, the cage needs deep cleaned, and preferably you need another thats easy to clean and has less stuff to monitor health and clean up easier.

This doesn't even end with just parasites, it could be any other magnitude of disease or illness, that is spreadable.

From that aspect alone, which is something I would suggest anyway, all babies should not be added to large cages, not because of the size, but because until the animal is known to be clear and healthy its easier to ensure those things in the tub he was suggested.


Size could too be a factor, I know like you said the wild, however the other flip to that coin is how were the babies raised? Were they raised in DS nurserys? Tiny little cages, with a feeder dish they always knew they could find food in. Now you toss them into a 2x2x4ft cage with a few running crickets, they are not use to eating that way, they are not used to having to track their food. Will they get use to it, ya, but that will take time, and a baby of unknown size may not have that time, especially if they are younger than the 3 months they should be. They have grown accustomed to their tiny cage and feeder bowl, thats all they know. You are uprooting them, and such, they are stressed, and now they dont even know where there food is.



At the end of the day, the breeder obviously has some clue what they are doing, if they were able to breed the animals and keep them alive to this point. They are also the sole insurance of your health guarantee, and that should also be kept in mind. The community has our own individual opinions of what we should and shouldn't do, but especially in that first X days of health guarantee, the community will not be the one replacing the animal if it passes or has issues. So I would do what they said, at least during that Health Guarantee personally.

If I was the breeder and I tell you buy this Linear bulb, and you have no UV light, and I said buy a 40w basking, and you have 100w, and I said use a 16 inch tub, and your using a 10 gal aquarium, and you PM me 3 days after arrival and say the animal passed. Do you think I am going to replace that animal? When you did not do anything as I said to? Especially when all the things you did could kill the animal?

On your survival comment I'm going to have to disagree a little, the ones that are dying I doubt are dying because a lack of food/finding food.

I mean ya, there is a plethora of reasons. Its not just about food, however that most certainly is likely an aspect. Of the videos I have seen of wild chams hatching and be being videoed, they do not go far. They hatch under the bush they were laid, and tend to stay there for awhile, on that bush together, sometimes with adults present sometimes not. At least for the first few weeks, from the few videos and such I have seen on the subject. Fighting, Predators, lack of Water due to bad timing, ect, are all also likely issues that lead to their demise.

 

[Futurechameleommom]

I'm no expert but have asked this before, and researched it. You can't put them in a cage that's too big. In the wild their cage is huge so the bigger the better.

 

[jamest0o0]

I didn't say you cant put a baby in a big cage.

You can, it will likely be fine.

Just saying, that not everyone feels that way, there are of course arguments to both sides, however the wild argument that gets thrown around for this and other debates, is not a reasonable one. The Wild is not some fairy tale land, with feeders abound and perfect basking spots available for everyone. The wild is cruel, hard, and unforgiving place that few survive, not something we are trying to emulate in captivity.


There is also as James said, and I would endorse as well. The argument for separate caging being Parasites. You buy a nice fancy cage, deck it out, with cork bark on the walls, 100s of dollars of plants, CUC Crew that you have been breeding for months, throw that baby in for the vet to tell you 3 days later, your baby has coccida, and all of that work, money and time is now worthless in the dumpster. Everything needs thrown away, the cage needs deep cleaned, and preferably you need another thats easy to clean and has less stuff to monitor health and clean up easier.

This doesn't even end with just parasites, it could be any other magnitude of disease or illness, that is spreadable.

From that aspect alone, which is something I would suggest anyway, all babies should not be added to large cages, not because of the size, but because until the animal is known to be clear and healthy its easier to ensure those things in the tub he was suggested.


Size could too be a factor, I know like you said the wild, however the other flip to that coin is how were the babies raised? Were they raised in DS nurserys? Tiny little cages, with a feeder dish they always knew they could find food in. Now you toss them into a 2x2x4ft cage with a few running crickets, they are not use to eating that way, they are not used to having to track their food. Will they get use to it, ya, but that will take time, and a baby of unknown size may not have that time, especially if they are younger than the 3 months they should be. They have grown accustomed to their tiny cage and feeder bowl, thats all they know. You are uprooting them, and such, they are stressed, and now they dont even know where there food is.



At the end of the day, the breeder obviously has some clue what they are doing, if they were able to breed the animals and keep them alive to this point. They are also the sole insurance of your health guarantee, and that should also be kept in mind. The community has our own individual opinions of what we should and shouldn't do, but especially in that first X days of health guarantee, the community will not be the one replacing the animal if it passes or has issues. So I would do what they said, at least during that Health Guarantee personally.

Now I generally agree with this! I do think that a cham in a small cage would still be able to find them in a large one. I put a baby on a huge hibiscus free range one time and he still caught crickets climbing down by the soil.

And btw... your point about the wild is what I'm always trying to make regarding natural feeders. That just because they eat mostly 'x ' in the wild doesn't necessarily mean it's optimal with all the options available in captivity. Then again, maybe it is!

 

[Beman]

There is also as James said, and I would endorse as well. The argument for separate caging being Parasites. You buy a nice fancy cage, deck it out, with cork bark on the walls, 100s of dollars of plants, CUC Crew that you have been breeding for months, throw that baby in for the vet to tell you 3 days later, your baby has coccida, and all of that work, money and time is now worthless in the dumpster. Everything needs thrown away, the cage needs deep cleaned, and preferably you need another thats easy to clean and has less stuff to monitor health and clean up easier.

Yeah this totally sucks..... threw out about $350 worth of stuff.

 

[jamest0o0]

Yeah this totally sucks..... threw out about $350 worth of stuff.

Yeah very good point. I used to worry about how devastating it'd be to have something like that happen with a fully bio enclosure. Horrible enough with a barebottom...