UV light ? Screen caging ?
- Thread starter Cham King
- Start date
Black Panther
Member
Chameleons can get MBD without UV
So can Iggys and beaded dragons but its been proven without it with many generations has it been proven with chameleons not to my knowledge.Everyone is afraid to test this as they see a ad for UV lights in a mag or else where and people believe what is said with no proven long term results its needed or not as long as they see a graph or DR. name mixed in their.
Trust me, it is absolutely needed!! Devastating metabolic bone disease is seen without it in spite of good nutrition. There are studies on this subject. It is not a marketing ploy.
"Panther Chameleons, Furcifer pardalis, Behaviorally Regulate Optimal Exposure to UV Depending on Dietary Vitamin D3 Status"
Author(s): Kristopher B. Karsten, Gary W. Ferguson, Tai C. Chen, Michael F. Holick
Source: Physiological and Biochemical Zoology, Vol. 82, No. 3 (May/June 2009), pp. 218-225
"Effects of artificial ultraviolet light exposure on reproductive success of the female panther chameleon (Furcifer pardalis) in captivity"
Zoo biology [0733-3188] Ferguson yr: 2002 vol: 21 iss: 6 pg: 525 -537
"The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation, and Captive Management."
Ferguson G.W., J.B. Murphy, J.B. Ramanamanjato, and A.P. Raselimanana.
Krieger, Malabar, FL. 2004
Abstract from one: "Basking by ectothermic vertebrates is thought to have evolved for thermoregulation. However, another beneficial effect of sunlight exposure, specifically the ultraviolet B (UV-B) component, includes endogenous production of vitamin D(3). In the laboratory, panther chameleons exhibited a positive phototaxis to greater visible, ultraviolet A (UV-A) and UV-B light. However, with equivalent high irradiances of UV-A or UV-B, their response to UV-B was significantly greater than it was to UV-A. Exposure of in vitro skin patches of panther chameleons to high UV-B (90 microW/cm(2)) for 1 h significantly enhanced vitamin D(3) concentration. Voluntary exposure to higher UV-B irradiance (70 vs. 1 microW/cm(2)) resulted in greater circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D(3) in female panther chameleons (604 vs. 92 ng/mL). Depending on dietary intake of vitamin D(3), chameleons adjusted their exposure time to UV-B irradiation as if regulating their endogenous production of this vital hormone. When dietary intake was low (1-3 IU/g), they exposed themselves to significantly more UV-producing light; when intake was high (9-129 IU/g), they exposed themselves to less. Vitamin D(3) photoregulation seems to be an important additional component of the function of basking."
"It has been previously shown that artificial UVB exposure of panther chameleons (Furcifer pardalis) enhanced hatching success, vitamin D status of adult females, and epidermal vitamin D production"
11. Ferguson GW, Jones JR, Gehrmann WH, Hammack SH, Talent LG, Hudson RD, Dierenfeld ES, Fitzpatrick MP, Frye FL, et al. Indoor husbandry of the panther chameleon (Furcifer pardalis): effects of dietary vitamins A and D and ultraviolet irradiation on pathology and life-history traits. Zoo Biol. 1996;15:279–99.
12. Ferguson GW, Gehrmann WH, Karsten KB, Hammack SH, McRae M, Chen TC, Lung NP, Holick MF. Do panther chameleons bask to regulate endogenous vitamin D3 production? Physiol Biochem Zool. 2003;76:52–9.
13. Ferguson GW, Gehrmann WH, Chen TC, Holick MF. Vitamin D-content of the eggs of the panther chamaeleon Furcifer pardalis: its relationship to UVB exposure/vitamin D-conditions
"Panther Chameleons, Furcifer pardalis, Behaviorally Regulate Optimal Exposure to UV Depending on Dietary Vitamin D3 Status"
Author(s): Kristopher B. Karsten, Gary W. Ferguson, Tai C. Chen, Michael F. Holick
Source: Physiological and Biochemical Zoology, Vol. 82, No. 3 (May/June 2009), pp. 218-225
"Effects of artificial ultraviolet light exposure on reproductive success of the female panther chameleon (Furcifer pardalis) in captivity"
Zoo biology [0733-3188] Ferguson yr: 2002 vol: 21 iss: 6 pg: 525 -537
"The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation, and Captive Management."
Ferguson G.W., J.B. Murphy, J.B. Ramanamanjato, and A.P. Raselimanana.
Krieger, Malabar, FL. 2004
Abstract from one: "Basking by ectothermic vertebrates is thought to have evolved for thermoregulation. However, another beneficial effect of sunlight exposure, specifically the ultraviolet B (UV-B) component, includes endogenous production of vitamin D(3). In the laboratory, panther chameleons exhibited a positive phototaxis to greater visible, ultraviolet A (UV-A) and UV-B light. However, with equivalent high irradiances of UV-A or UV-B, their response to UV-B was significantly greater than it was to UV-A. Exposure of in vitro skin patches of panther chameleons to high UV-B (90 microW/cm(2)) for 1 h significantly enhanced vitamin D(3) concentration. Voluntary exposure to higher UV-B irradiance (70 vs. 1 microW/cm(2)) resulted in greater circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D(3) in female panther chameleons (604 vs. 92 ng/mL). Depending on dietary intake of vitamin D(3), chameleons adjusted their exposure time to UV-B irradiation as if regulating their endogenous production of this vital hormone. When dietary intake was low (1-3 IU/g), they exposed themselves to significantly more UV-producing light; when intake was high (9-129 IU/g), they exposed themselves to less. Vitamin D(3) photoregulation seems to be an important additional component of the function of basking."
"It has been previously shown that artificial UVB exposure of panther chameleons (Furcifer pardalis) enhanced hatching success, vitamin D status of adult females, and epidermal vitamin D production"
11. Ferguson GW, Jones JR, Gehrmann WH, Hammack SH, Talent LG, Hudson RD, Dierenfeld ES, Fitzpatrick MP, Frye FL, et al. Indoor husbandry of the panther chameleon (Furcifer pardalis): effects of dietary vitamins A and D and ultraviolet irradiation on pathology and life-history traits. Zoo Biol. 1996;15:279–99.
12. Ferguson GW, Gehrmann WH, Karsten KB, Hammack SH, McRae M, Chen TC, Lung NP, Holick MF. Do panther chameleons bask to regulate endogenous vitamin D3 production? Physiol Biochem Zool. 2003;76:52–9.
13. Ferguson GW, Gehrmann WH, Chen TC, Holick MF. Vitamin D-content of the eggs of the panther chamaeleon Furcifer pardalis: its relationship to UVB exposure/vitamin D-conditions
Last edited:
waynederby
New Member
Yes its needed.
I see many saying its needed but with no testing results to show either way with or with out.I don't go on if someone says yes its needed.
As many think for years that IGGYS need UV but yet many raise them without and get same results as with it.Why the difference that chams MUST HAVE
waynederby
New Member
One 'main' word.... Vitamins, this isn't the only reason. Why wouldn't you provide it? Are you against them?
Don't take the chance
Did you see my post quoting several scientific studies on this topic?
Can I have proof of that please? Because I do not believe you.
Didnt say they wernt either way
I've noticed you are ignoring my posts, which typically happens when evidence against what they are saying is provided. Here is some more:
"Nutritional metabolic bone disease in juvenile veiled chameleons (Chamaeleo calyptratus) and its prevention."
Journal of Nutrition 140(11):1923-31, 2010 Nov
140(11):1923-31, 2010 Nov
It can be concluded that the indoor rearing of veiled chameleons fed with locusts gut-loaded with 12% Ca, dusted with vitamin A (250,000 IU/kg) (75 mg/kg) and cholecalciferol (25,000 IU/kg) (0.625 mg/kg) immediately before feeding, and provision of long (10 h/d), low irradiation exposure (3–120 mW/cm2 UVB) provided the best combination for the prevention of NMBD.
"Effects of vitamin D3 supplementation and UVb exposure on the growth and plasma concentration of vitamin D3 metabolites in juvenile bearded dragons"
This study shows that 2 h of UVb exposure enables adequate physiological concentrations of plasma vitamin D metabolites to bemaintained in growing bearded dragons. Oral supplementation of vitaminD3 is ineffective in raising plasma concentrations of 25(OH)D3 and 1,25(OH)2D3 to concentrations observed in UVb-exposed animals.
"THE REQUIREMENT FOR NATURAL SUNLIGHT TO PREVENT VITAMIN D DEFICIENCY IN IGUANIAN LIZARDS"
Author(s) :Christopher J. LaingB.V.Sc., B.Sc.(Vet.), Ph.D., Angelika Trube, Glenn M. SheaB.V.Sc., Ph.D., and David R. FraserB.V.Sc., Ph.D.
Journal of Zoo and Wildlife Medicine, 32(3):342-348. 2001.
Here's some more reading from you to understand the topic at hand better:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/olimpia/573-chameleon-physiology-supplements.html
"Nutritional metabolic bone disease in juvenile veiled chameleons (Chamaeleo calyptratus) and its prevention."
Journal of Nutrition 140(11):1923-31, 2010 Nov
140(11):1923-31, 2010 Nov
It can be concluded that the indoor rearing of veiled chameleons fed with locusts gut-loaded with 12% Ca, dusted with vitamin A (250,000 IU/kg) (75 mg/kg) and cholecalciferol (25,000 IU/kg) (0.625 mg/kg) immediately before feeding, and provision of long (10 h/d), low irradiation exposure (3–120 mW/cm2 UVB) provided the best combination for the prevention of NMBD.
"Effects of vitamin D3 supplementation and UVb exposure on the growth and plasma concentration of vitamin D3 metabolites in juvenile bearded dragons"
This study shows that 2 h of UVb exposure enables adequate physiological concentrations of plasma vitamin D metabolites to bemaintained in growing bearded dragons. Oral supplementation of vitaminD3 is ineffective in raising plasma concentrations of 25(OH)D3 and 1,25(OH)2D3 to concentrations observed in UVb-exposed animals.
"THE REQUIREMENT FOR NATURAL SUNLIGHT TO PREVENT VITAMIN D DEFICIENCY IN IGUANIAN LIZARDS"
Author(s) :Christopher J. LaingB.V.Sc., B.Sc.(Vet.), Ph.D., Angelika Trube, Glenn M. SheaB.V.Sc., Ph.D., and David R. FraserB.V.Sc., Ph.D.
Journal of Zoo and Wildlife Medicine, 32(3):342-348. 2001.
Here's some more reading from you to understand the topic at hand better:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/olimpia/573-chameleon-physiology-supplements.html
blackhawk007
New Member
Cause i dont reply FAST is ignoring your post im just busy and havnt had time to do a long write back.
But it dont say if its needed just showing the results with it. What my main question was has anyone tested without UV and if so what results ?
blackhawk007
New Member
Sorry to have offended you with my post. I will remain quiet now since I am not of any use.
Some of those papers DID test groups without UVB and they did poorly. Others had animals that did not receive UVB that were presented for treatment. The results with it all had very positive effects, logically indicating that without it you would not see those benefits.
I gave you a whole bunch of data indicating the need for UVB. Do you have any evidence to say otherwise? If your stance is that it's not needed (for iguanas and beardies as well) then back it up.
I gave you a whole bunch of data indicating the need for UVB. Do you have any evidence to say otherwise? If your stance is that it's not needed (for iguanas and beardies as well) then back it up.
Is their any result for testing without as you cant test one way and once it has to be tested for generations. yes it wont hurt using it as it shows but CANT IT BE NOT USED is the question and what are the results
Do your own research. Why should I do all the work for you? I gave you a great starting point. Personal experience seeing patients not given UVB that have devastating metabolic bone disease that improves dramatically with UVB means NO, they can't go without it.
Their hasnt been written papers on it for them just breeders who used that method and have had excellent results without for iggys and beadies.So that brought me to the question has anyone ever tested it fully without as many species other than chams that were said to need it have been raised,bred etc without with no ill effects.
That i will be doing BUT was asking IF anyone has tested it otherwise as i mentioned personly. No one has it seems
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