Hey all,
New to these forums but not new to reptile husbandry (have two 3yr old Leopard Geckos and a 1yr old Leopard Gecko). My fiancee and I adopted a severely malnourished Veiled Chameleon, Horatio, from PetSmart that was returned last February (2months old at that time) and nursed him back to normal size/weight. He has been a very healthy and active chameleon since then, living in an 18x18x36" Reptibreeze with a custom built insert (lots of twigs and fake vines from Michaels). He receives 12hours of UVB (Exo Terra 10.0) and heat (Basking lamp with a temp of 85-90 degrees at his spot), along with 15 seconds of continuous misting every hour from 9am to 8pm (the mist also collects on the top screen and slowly drips between mistings plus he's gotten the timing down so when he wants a drink he stands near the nozzles and licks the screen). I feed him about 6-8 crickets every other day (dusted with regular calcium every time and multi vitamin powder twice a month) and the crickets are kept alive using Flukers Orange Cubes.
About 9 days ago when I put in his usual cricket amount he only ate half of them (roughly 3 or 4) and I removed the rest the next day. When I went to feed him again (7 days ago, last Friday) he didn't eat a single cricket...some of them were inches from his mouth but he just rested his head and slept all day. So I kept them in and he still didn't touch them the next day or day after that. By Monday (4 days ago) he hadn't ate a single thing and only moved to wake up from his sleeping spot and move to his basking spot. He literally kept both eyes closed all day long. And if we took him out, he would just rest on our hands with his eyes closed, sleeping. Very unlike himself as he is normally active and loves climbing all over our bedroom furniture.
Worried, I fed him two Superworms Monday to see if he was just going on "hunger strike" after months of only crickets. He ate them but the next day (Tuesday) he was still being severely lethargic, wouldn't touch anymore worms, and kept sleeping in our hands/not reacting, so we called our local exotic pet office and scheduled him for an appointment the next day. On Wednesday, still no change except that he had pooped out both Superworms, we took him in and he was seen by our local exotic pet vet who happened to be the lead veterinarian of our local zoo for 23 years and specialized in amphibians and reptiles. At the visit Horatio weighed 59 grams, looked otherwise healthy (no excess mucous in mouth, good grip strength, good bite strength) and was prescribed some Carnivore Care to be mixed at home and 1.75mL given daily thinking he may just need a "spark" to get him back on track. On Thursday we gave Horatio his dosage (using a small syringe and guitar pick to help hold his mouth open). He swallowed it and basked the rest of the day in his cage.
Here is where things got bad: I weighed him (he was up to 63 grams) and gave him half his dosage (about 1mL) of the Carnivore Care today (Friday) around 11am and went to do a few things. When I checked on him 30 minutes later he was basking with his head up like he was digesting/impersonating the Lion King. When I came back in 30 more minutes, he was lying on his side on the bottom of the cage, moving in circles, unable to lift the left side of his body. I took him out and even in my hands, he couldn't lift his head or move the left side of his body. Fearing the worst, I took him to our emergency vet thinking he may have had a stroke (he looked in severe pain)...but by the time I got there 30 minutes later, he was standing up like normal and could move/climb on my jacket. However, he had lost A LOT of grip strength/coordination to the point that twice during the exam when I had him in my hands, he nearly fell because he just "let go" completely or flipped over like he was rolling off my hands.
The emergency vet contacted our original exotic vet and he said to give an antibiotic shot right there, give us another shot to give in two days (on Sunday), and call him on Tuesday when he gets back in town to follow-up. He also said to continue giving the Carnivore Care but to also force feed 1mL of water daily in case of dehydration. So we brought him home and I built a sort of "safety net" one third the way down his cage so he wouldn't fall if he lost strength. Lo and behold when I went to mist him (as the vet also directed), he let go of his branch and fell...but the net worked and he just rolled over and climbed the side of the cage. So it's like he has strength/can climb and hold but also has moments of disorientation/ no coordination. Also, when we got home he threw up all of the Carnivore Care I had given him before his big fall...when we called the vet she said it was probably because he had gotten too cold since we transported him so much right after he ate.
From what I can gather (being in the medical field myself), it seems like something initially made Horatio sick and in response he stopped taking in water, leading to weakness and disorientation (hence him falling in his enclosure) due to dehydration. While I always check his urates (he had bright white urate yesterday even), I assume dehydration can go unseen in some cases (in hindsight, his eyes are a little sunken but nothing like the extreme cases I used when Googling veiled chameleon issues). Going forward, I plan on resuming the Carnivore Care tomorrow (1.75mL), giving him 1mL of water, misting him often, giving the second dose of antibiotics Sunday, and just keep an eye on him. Come Tuesday, if he hasn't taken a turn for the worse, I will call the exotic pet vet and see what he wants to do.
However, I came on these forums to see if others with years of actually raising and/or breeding these guys what their thoughts are? Am I fighting something that is futile? I never want any of my pets (from my smallest fish to my dog) to be in needless pain but I also want to do what I can if it's correctable. Do you think he just got out of wake and simple dehydration led to all this? Or does it sound like something worse/unknown?
Just looking for any inputs, opinions, etc. As I type this, he is behaving slightly normal by half hanging from the top of the cage while resting his back legs on a branch...but he still is keep both eyes closed like he is sleeping. And no, his eyes are not at all cloudy/crusted. They passed inspection by both vets.
Thanks!
EDIT:
The ONLY thing that has changed was three weeks ago (about 19 days before any issues presented themselves) I switched from using Distilled water to RO/DI water (since I bought an RO/DI system for my saltwater tank) for his mister. Not sure if this would have caused any health issues though...
New to these forums but not new to reptile husbandry (have two 3yr old Leopard Geckos and a 1yr old Leopard Gecko). My fiancee and I adopted a severely malnourished Veiled Chameleon, Horatio, from PetSmart that was returned last February (2months old at that time) and nursed him back to normal size/weight. He has been a very healthy and active chameleon since then, living in an 18x18x36" Reptibreeze with a custom built insert (lots of twigs and fake vines from Michaels). He receives 12hours of UVB (Exo Terra 10.0) and heat (Basking lamp with a temp of 85-90 degrees at his spot), along with 15 seconds of continuous misting every hour from 9am to 8pm (the mist also collects on the top screen and slowly drips between mistings plus he's gotten the timing down so when he wants a drink he stands near the nozzles and licks the screen). I feed him about 6-8 crickets every other day (dusted with regular calcium every time and multi vitamin powder twice a month) and the crickets are kept alive using Flukers Orange Cubes.
About 9 days ago when I put in his usual cricket amount he only ate half of them (roughly 3 or 4) and I removed the rest the next day. When I went to feed him again (7 days ago, last Friday) he didn't eat a single cricket...some of them were inches from his mouth but he just rested his head and slept all day. So I kept them in and he still didn't touch them the next day or day after that. By Monday (4 days ago) he hadn't ate a single thing and only moved to wake up from his sleeping spot and move to his basking spot. He literally kept both eyes closed all day long. And if we took him out, he would just rest on our hands with his eyes closed, sleeping. Very unlike himself as he is normally active and loves climbing all over our bedroom furniture.
Worried, I fed him two Superworms Monday to see if he was just going on "hunger strike" after months of only crickets. He ate them but the next day (Tuesday) he was still being severely lethargic, wouldn't touch anymore worms, and kept sleeping in our hands/not reacting, so we called our local exotic pet office and scheduled him for an appointment the next day. On Wednesday, still no change except that he had pooped out both Superworms, we took him in and he was seen by our local exotic pet vet who happened to be the lead veterinarian of our local zoo for 23 years and specialized in amphibians and reptiles. At the visit Horatio weighed 59 grams, looked otherwise healthy (no excess mucous in mouth, good grip strength, good bite strength) and was prescribed some Carnivore Care to be mixed at home and 1.75mL given daily thinking he may just need a "spark" to get him back on track. On Thursday we gave Horatio his dosage (using a small syringe and guitar pick to help hold his mouth open). He swallowed it and basked the rest of the day in his cage.
Here is where things got bad: I weighed him (he was up to 63 grams) and gave him half his dosage (about 1mL) of the Carnivore Care today (Friday) around 11am and went to do a few things. When I checked on him 30 minutes later he was basking with his head up like he was digesting/impersonating the Lion King. When I came back in 30 more minutes, he was lying on his side on the bottom of the cage, moving in circles, unable to lift the left side of his body. I took him out and even in my hands, he couldn't lift his head or move the left side of his body. Fearing the worst, I took him to our emergency vet thinking he may have had a stroke (he looked in severe pain)...but by the time I got there 30 minutes later, he was standing up like normal and could move/climb on my jacket. However, he had lost A LOT of grip strength/coordination to the point that twice during the exam when I had him in my hands, he nearly fell because he just "let go" completely or flipped over like he was rolling off my hands.
The emergency vet contacted our original exotic vet and he said to give an antibiotic shot right there, give us another shot to give in two days (on Sunday), and call him on Tuesday when he gets back in town to follow-up. He also said to continue giving the Carnivore Care but to also force feed 1mL of water daily in case of dehydration. So we brought him home and I built a sort of "safety net" one third the way down his cage so he wouldn't fall if he lost strength. Lo and behold when I went to mist him (as the vet also directed), he let go of his branch and fell...but the net worked and he just rolled over and climbed the side of the cage. So it's like he has strength/can climb and hold but also has moments of disorientation/ no coordination. Also, when we got home he threw up all of the Carnivore Care I had given him before his big fall...when we called the vet she said it was probably because he had gotten too cold since we transported him so much right after he ate.
From what I can gather (being in the medical field myself), it seems like something initially made Horatio sick and in response he stopped taking in water, leading to weakness and disorientation (hence him falling in his enclosure) due to dehydration. While I always check his urates (he had bright white urate yesterday even), I assume dehydration can go unseen in some cases (in hindsight, his eyes are a little sunken but nothing like the extreme cases I used when Googling veiled chameleon issues). Going forward, I plan on resuming the Carnivore Care tomorrow (1.75mL), giving him 1mL of water, misting him often, giving the second dose of antibiotics Sunday, and just keep an eye on him. Come Tuesday, if he hasn't taken a turn for the worse, I will call the exotic pet vet and see what he wants to do.
However, I came on these forums to see if others with years of actually raising and/or breeding these guys what their thoughts are? Am I fighting something that is futile? I never want any of my pets (from my smallest fish to my dog) to be in needless pain but I also want to do what I can if it's correctable. Do you think he just got out of wake and simple dehydration led to all this? Or does it sound like something worse/unknown?
Just looking for any inputs, opinions, etc. As I type this, he is behaving slightly normal by half hanging from the top of the cage while resting his back legs on a branch...but he still is keep both eyes closed like he is sleeping. And no, his eyes are not at all cloudy/crusted. They passed inspection by both vets.
Thanks!
EDIT:
The ONLY thing that has changed was three weeks ago (about 19 days before any issues presented themselves) I switched from using Distilled water to RO/DI water (since I bought an RO/DI system for my saltwater tank) for his mister. Not sure if this would have caused any health issues though...
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