Veiled Chameleon not laying eggs.

[Dyesub Dave]

Hi all ... I'm new to this forum and will introduce myself and browse around at a later date. Currently I have a chameleon problem and would like to ask for your help.

I have a female veiled chameleon that is approx. 7 months old and is ready to lay her eggs. I have a 15 gal. lizard cage that has the bottom third of it filled with a damp sand/soil mixture. Within a day she started digging a hole which I thought was a good sign. Well it's now turned into a tunnel and she's been digging it for two full days. However ... she does take breaks on a branch and also sleeps at night on a branch.

I've read that if the cham doesn't find the substrate is deep or moist enough that they may not lay their eggs and can become eggbound. The mixture is about 6" deep at the bottom of this enclosure. She has dug right down to the bottom and is digging along the bottom of the cage. I mist her at least twice a day and just started putting the calcium / D3 supplement in with the water. In this enclosure she has branches to climb on and a couple plants one of which is a live plant. There is a heat and UVB lamp as well.

I just wasn't sure if this just may take a bit longer or if I should put her in a small plastic garbage can with deeper substrate. I don't want to discourage her by making her start all over again.

Any advice or suggestions that any of you have would be greatly appreciated !!

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Hi Dave, and welcome to the forum.

I'd recommend you get a larger laying container ready for her. I'd get one at least a foot deep with your sand/soil mixture. What I use is a very large pot with a ficus planted in the middle of it and then filled with my sand/peat mixture. Also, make sure you leave her alone. If she sees you at all, she will probably stop with the hole shes digging and dig another because she thinks the spot isn't safe anymore.

Best of luck with her laying for you.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Yeah ... I have a small plastic garbage pail ready to fill if need be. Mind you she was just in her tunnel again for an hour or so. She doesn't look any thinner yet and she hasn't filled in the hole either. I also have my DIY incubator ready for eggs!

I had a silkworm in there today but she wanted nothing to do with it. She's been off silkworms for a while now. However I threw a couple of crickets in and she ate at least one. I'm just concerned that they'll hide in the tunnel and eat any eggs they find. That's why I was trying to feed the silkworm. I've read not to feed them and others say to feed them if they'll eat due to all the energy that they're expending.

I just turned the light out to let her rest as she was up in her branch after eating. She's been digging in the same tunnel for both days that she's been digging. Is it a good sign if she's still digging in the same tunnel ? I don't want to be overly paranoid about her but I also don't want to be to relaxed and regret being that way later.

Does this process sometimes take several days??

Thanks for your help!! Dyesub Dave.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Well ... day 3 and she's in her tunnel again. I hope she lays her eggs soon or she's going to wear herself out. I'm also a little concerned that if she makes the tunnel too big that it will collapse on her! The incubator is sitting steady at 78 deg. and 98% humidity.

I saw one cricket in her cage today and tried to catch it but it took off into the tunnel. I'm sure that she'll either eat it or bury it inside the tunnel.

COME ON EGGS!!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Yeah ... I have a small plastic garbage pail ready to fill if need be. Mind you she was just in her tunnel again for an hour or so. She doesn't look any thinner yet and she hasn't filled in the hole either. I also have my DIY incubator ready for eggs!

I had a silkworm in there today but she wanted nothing to do with it. She's been off silkworms for a while now. However I threw a couple of crickets in and she ate at least one. I'm just concerned that they'll hide in the tunnel and eat any eggs they find. That's why I was trying to feed the silkworm. I've read not to feed them and others say to feed them if they'll eat due to all the energy that they're expending.

I just turned the light out to let her rest as she was up in her branch after eating. She's been digging in the same tunnel for both days that she's been digging. Is it a good sign if she's still digging in the same tunnel ? I don't want to be overly paranoid about her but I also don't want to be to relaxed and regret being that way later.

Does this process sometimes take several days??

Thanks for your help!! Dyesub Dave.

No worries Dave. My female that just laid, started digging test holes more then a week before she actually laid the clutch. Be patient and most of all, stay out of sight for the whole day. Check on her once and make sure she doesn't see you.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

I'm not sure that mine's digging test holes as she keeps going into the same tunnel. I guess at least the incentive / effort is there which I assume is a good sign.

I try no to look at her too much unless she's up on her branch. The cage is in my dining room next to my computer so it's difficult not to be in that room. Mind you I am gone to work every day so she does have a fair amount of time alone.

P.S. I know that you're not supposed to WASH the eggs but is it a good idea to brush some of the sand off with a tissue or something before putting them in the vermiculite? I'm planning on wearing rubber gloves when handling the eggs to lessen the risk of contamination.

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO its a good thing that she is digging in the same hole...to me it shows she's satisfied. Mine almost always dig the same hole for a few days. I think that they seem to know that they would need to dig that long to dig the hole deep enough if they were in the wild....but they don't seem to realize they are at the bottom of the container when they are in captivity and continue to dig the hole as if in their minds that was making it deeper.

If there is a probability that she will see you watching her, why not cover the cage with a towel so there is no possibility of it?

As for feeding her while she is digging...you really don't want to leave a cricket or other insect that can chew through an egg or the side of your chameleon in there. Its fine for them to be in there while she is digging, but as soon as she turns around in the hole (bum down) she will be in a kind of stupor and not realize if an insect is chewing on her. If she will eat greens, veggies or fruit...you could leave some in a dish for her.

If you keep the substrate where she is digging moist the tunnel will likely hold. If by some chance the tunnel collapses, you can adjust the moisture and redig it while she is up in the branches and she won't likely even know that it wasn't her own work,

Washing the eggs is a no-no for sure. Unless the sand is caked on thickly I never worry about dusting it off. I use a plastic spoon to dig the eggs up and move them to the incubation container. Dig a little at a time when you get near where the eggs are laid so that you don't disturb or hurt the eggs.

What will you do to incubate them (container setup, etc.)?

Remember...patience is a virtue! You will need even more patience to wait for them to hatch!

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Well ... this is the 5th day and she is still digging in the same hole. I can see the egg bumps by her tail and I'm getting a little concerned about her. I have blocked off the sides of her enclosure and just peek in once in a while to see what she's doing. If she hasn't laid them by tomorrow I think that I'll try the bucket method and start the hole for her. She's done so much work so far that I hate to take her away from the one that she's already made. But apparently it's not good enough for her to lay or something.

However I was just wondering if sometimes they just keep digging until they're ready to lay the eggs. Is it possible that the eggs just aren't ready to come out yet?

I have a DIY incubator made from a styrofoam cooler. I put a smooth piece of marble on the bottom with an underwater heater stuck to it. I've put 2 plastic VHS cases on either side and placed another piece of marble on top to make a shelf. I have a small plastic tupperware container that has several small holes drilled in the sides and it sits on top of the marble shelf and is filled with moist vermiculite. On the outside lid of the tupperware container I have a Flukker's Thermometer/Hygrometer. I've cut a hole in the lid of the cooler and siliconed in a piece of 1/4" plexiglass to act as a window. I've got the temp around 78 deg. F. and the humidity is 98-99%.

However ... I find that the window is useless as it gets covered in condensation. Also ... isn't it a problem if the top of the tupperware container gets condensation on the inside? Couldn't this drop on the eggs? I was thinking of either propping the tupperware container up slightly as to create an angle for the condensation to roll off or to tape a piece of cardboard to the inside of the lid. Any suggestions??

Thanks .... Dyesub Dave.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

It is my understanding that an incubator is unnecesasary.
Lots of people have great success with a "tupperware" container with 2 tiny holes poked in the top, in a drawer or closet.

-Brad

 

[Dyesub Dave]

I hadn't heard that before for Veileds but anything is possible I guess. The only problem being that I don't keep my place at 76-80 degrees so I'm not sure they would be warm enough. Perhaps they could handle the slightly cooler temps but would the humidity stay high enough??

Maybe I should try some both ways to see which works better?

Dyesub Dave.

 

[Dave Weldon]

...The only problem being that I don't keep my place at 76-80 degrees so I'm not sure they would be warm enough. Perhaps they could handle the slightly cooler temps but would the humidity stay high enough??

Howdy Dave,
An egg container (almost completely sealed) with a lid containing properly moistened substrate has enough humidity on its own. There's no need to rig-up something to increase the humidity in the incubator itself. If you still want to use an aquarium heater as a regulated heat source for the eggs then try sealing it in a container of water and let the radiated heat maintain whatever level you're looking for.

Just in case you haven't seen these articles:
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/mar2003/eggs/egg_incubation.html
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/july2003/incubation/incubation.html

 

[PardalisGirl]

Patience is a virtue...

Patience is a virtue with females and eggs. How is she doing today? It sounds like she is satisfied with her tunnel but the eggs are not ready to come out. Danielle from this group had a similar situation. The female will be tired but she will be fine. This is what she is made to do. Next time I would make it deeper. At least a foot deep. I would have a hard time deciding if she should be moved to the trash can at this point. Pros and cons for both choices. Tough decision.....Waiting to here about her again Catherine

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Hey ... thanks for the links and suggestions!

Every day she digs for around 30 min. to an hour in the tunnel and then comes out for a 5 - 15 min. break and then goes right back in again. As it gets later in the evening I've been turning the UVB bulb off as the heat source is a red heat bulb. That signals to her that she can come and warm up before nighttime. So she comes up on her branch where I spray her down and let her gather some body heat before turning the light off.

It was also suggested to put some baby food in a small dish as she might eat some. I have been giving her the occasional cricket but not much at all as I'm afraid a loose cricket will get to the eggs if she lays them. The baby food is fruit salad - Apple, Banana, White Grape Juice and Pineapple which I have put in a small plastic deli cup in her enclosure. However ... I don't think that she's eaten any yet.

Yes ... patience is a hard thing sometimes but I'm actually more concerned about her well being. If it normally takes a week to dig and lay the eggs then I wouldn't be too concerned. But I've also read a fair bit about Veileds being eggbound if they're not happy with the substrate, surroundings, stressed ... etc. While I am excited about getting eggs I just really want her to release them so that I can get her watered, fed and relaxed for a few days!

BTW - I think that I will split the eggs into two groups and try using an incubator for one set and the closet method for the other. It will be interesting to see if the results vary!

Thanks again for everyone's help and hopefully I will be reporting eggs very soon!!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[kinyonga]

I live in Canada and I have always had a heat source to incubate the veiled eggs or I can't keep them at 78F.

 

[danielle609]

Hey Danielle,

Congrats on your eggs!! I know exactly how you felt! My female veiled has been digging for 5 days and still no eggs that I know of. I'm getting a little concerned about her as you were about yours. I think if she doesn't lay them soon I will get a large pail and fill it with sand/topsoil and start a hole for her.

I give her an occasional cricket but don't want them running around in there when she's laying eggs. It was suggested that I try some baby food in a little container for nourishment but I don't think she's touched that either.

If she doesn't lay them soon I think that I may FREAK OUT !!

COME ON EGGS!!!

Dyesub Dave.

(this was posted on a thread I started but it seemed more fitting to bring it over here )

I was getting really freaked out toward the end too. Mine was digging for 5 days so maybe today will be the lucky day (fingers crossed)!! I felt so bad because she was so tired, I actually felt guilty for breeding her at one point. But now seeing her all recovered and eating and driking away makes me feel better. You will feel much better once she lays them. I am assuming that since she is still digging she has full intentions of laying them and hasn't given up. Hopefully we hear good news soon, and she lays a nice healthy clutch!!

Hope all goes well!!
Dani

 

[titan501x]

my veiled dug her tunnel and laid her eggs in a 10 hour period. and i thought that was a long time! why didn't it take her a week to dig a tunnel and lay eggs like the other chams on here?

 

[Dyesub Dave]

Well ... day 6 and she's still digging. It looks as if she digging different tunnels from the main hole. She needs to lay soon cuz I can clearly see the eggs near her tail. I suppose that if she hasn't laid the eggs by tonight I could always get the bucket ready and put her in to see if she digs. If not I could always put her back in the enclosure where she's already made tunnels. But I really don't want to stress her out too much.

I had an idea about the closet method for some of the eggs and was hoping to get some input. I was wondering if putting some eggs in a container that wasn't clear, with vermiculite, a couple of pinholes in the lid and then putting it on top of one of my chams mesh cages would work. Not right under the heat lamp but off to the side where it would get heat rising from the cage. That way there would be highs and lows just like in nature. My place won't likely go below 68-70 deg. F. at night and I would think the daytime high would be around 80 or so.

Lemme know what you think!!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[stevereecy]

Well ... day 6 and she's still digging. It looks as if she digging different tunnels from the main hole. She needs to lay soon cuz I can clearly see the eggs near her tail. I suppose that if she hasn't laid the eggs by tonight I could always get the bucket ready and put her in to see if she digs. If not I could always put her back in the enclosure where she's already made tunnels. But I really don't want to stress her out too much.

I had an idea about the closet method for some of the eggs and was hoping to get some input. I was wondering if putting some eggs in a container that wasn't clear, with vermiculite, a couple of pinholes in the lid and then putting it on top of one of my chams mesh cages would work. Not right under the heat lamp but off to the side where it would get heat rising from the cage. That way there would be highs and lows just like in nature. My place won't likely go below 68-70 deg. F. at night and I would think the daytime high would be around 80 or so.

Lemme know what you think!!

Dyesub Dave.

Dave,

If the soil is too dry, (or sometimes too wet) and doesn't pack well, she will continually abandon the hole. Make sure the soil has a good moisture content to form a tunnel. For this reason, I like soil without additives.

Steve

 

[Dyesub Dave]

I currently have topsoil mixed with play sand. I moistened it before I put it in her enclosure. I spray her 2 - 4 times a day to give her a drink and keep the soil moist. She has a huge tunnel on the bottom that seems to be holding well.

The tunnel is so large that when she goes in I don't even see her. I actually just got back from lunch at home and peeked in a few times. I didn't see her the entire time I was there so hopefully she's laying her eggs. I'll check again when I get home.

Thanks for your suggestions!!

Dyesub Dave.

 

[Dyesub Dave]

My female has been in her tunnel all day. I hope that means that she's laying eggs. I saw her go in this morning, didn't see her come out when I was home for lunch and haven't seen her out since 6:00pm and now it's 7:45pm. I stuck my ear to the bottom of the tank and could hear digging at one point but haven't heard anything for a while. She doesn't usually stay in that long.

So I'm hoping it's not a problem and she's just trying to cover up the eggs as she goes. If I don't see her for another few hours should I dig her out and check on her or just leave her alone??

Thanks ... Dyesub Dave.