Veiled suddenly stopped eating

[Chloe Chameleon]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Male, approx. 1 yr old (we got him at about 3-6 mo.)
• Handling – Very little for several months. Though not very shy (he doesn’t hide) he didn’t seem inclined to be handled but that changed dramatically last month. He started coming to the enclosure door whenever we got near it – now when we open it he comes out quickly and will climb up our arm and head, then keeps climbing around if he has a chance. He’ll climb off onto something and keep exploring - after a little bit we put out our arm, he climbs on and we put him back in his enclosure. If we go near cage, even 15 min later, he exhibits same behavior (waiting for latch to open). Temp is within range.
• Feeding – Previously a big eater, at least 10 crickets a day (we alternate days with a calcium supplement), wax worms, snap peas, strawberries, raspberries. About 8 days ago he stopped eating anything.
• Supplements - ZooMed reptivite with D3
• Watering - We use an intermittent misting system and a running fountain that we clean once per week.
• Fecal Description – Normal as far as we can tell, but much less now. Never tested for parasites.
• History – When we got him he was in a small, pretty bare cage. Would hiss if we got close. Now he seems very comfortable with us. Until this change in eating we would have said he was doing really well. One of the attached pics shows him stressed by a mirror – this just happened. He was on my daughter’s arm, climbed off quickly and onto the cup, then got stressed by the mirror image (we are guessing). After this we put him back in his enclosure. That was 15 min ago and just now, when I went to take a picture of his enclosure, he came again to the latch waiting for it to open (temp 75 degrees at cooler part of cage).

Cage Info:

• Cage Type – Lg mesh enclosure, 3 ft w X 4 ft h X 2 ft
• Lighting – Zoo Med UV florescent bulb, 1 100W Exo Terra infrared bulb, 1 100W ceramic infrared. Everything off at around 8:00 pm
• Temperature – in winter between 67 (at night) and 90, now between 70-90 degrees
• Humidity – it’s very dry here in Durango – no humidifier right now. We use an intermittent mister
• Plants – One sm. ficus plant, artificial plants
• Placement – In my daughter’s room by a window – at night we roll the cart back so he’s not directly against a window.
• Location - US, Durango Colorado

 

[Beman]

@Chloe Chameleon
Hi there and welcome. A few questions before I dive into your whole form... Is your UVB a screw in bulb?
And are you using the reptivite with D3 every other day?

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Oh, and yes, UVB is a screw in bulb

 

[Beman]

Hi there and welcome to the forum. I am going to put my feedback in red bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Male, approx. 1 yr old (we got him at about 3-6 mo.)
• Handling – Very little for several months. Though not very shy (he doesn’t hide) he didn’t seem inclined to be handled but that changed dramatically last month. He started coming to the enclosure door whenever we got near it – now when we open it he comes out quickly and will climb up our arm and head, then keeps climbing around if he has a chance. He’ll climb off onto something and keep exploring - after a little bit we put out our arm, he climbs on and we put him back in his enclosure. If we go near cage, even 15 min later, he exhibits same behavior (waiting for latch to open). Temp is within range. More then likely he is trying to get out because the cage is not set up with hiding spaces for him. He has now hit maturity so he is also exploring more looking for a mate.
• Feeding – Previously a big eater, at least 10 crickets a day (we alternate days with a calcium supplement), wax worms, snap peas, strawberries, raspberries. About 8 days ago he stopped eating anything. Veg and fruit really are not a main staple that they should have. Their diet should be insect based. Will post image for appropriate feeders. At this age he should only be eating about 3-5 feeders every other day at most. Are you using the reptivite with D3 or do you have calcium without D3?
• Supplements - ZooMed reptivite with D3 Reptivite with D3 should only be given 2 times a month. every other week. He should be getting calcium without D3 at every other feeding. I am concerned he may have a D3 or Vitamin A overdose due to getting reptivite every day. Both are fat soluble so it takes time for the levels to drop in their body.
• Watering - We use an intermittent misting system and a running fountain that we clean once per week. Fountain should be tossed these are bacteria breeding grounds. How often are you misting the fake plants for and how often?
• Fecal Description – Normal as far as we can tell, but much less now. Never tested for parasites. I recommend getting a fecal done. Call exotic vets in your area and see if you can bring in a fresh sample to rule out parasites. This would be another reason for him to stop eating.
• History – When we got him he was in a small, pretty bare cage. Would hiss if we got close. Now he seems very comfortable with us. Until this change in eating we would have said he was doing really well. One of the attached pics shows him stressed by a mirror – this just happened. He was on my daughter’s arm, climbed off quickly and onto the cup, then got stressed by the mirror image (we are guessing). After this we put him back in his enclosure. That was 15 min ago and just now, when I went to take a picture of his enclosure, he came again to the latch waiting for it to open (temp 75 degrees at cooler part of cage). They do not do well with their reflection. That was a stress response because he thought another male was in his territory.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type – Lg mesh enclosure, 3 ft w X 4 ft h X 2 ft Size is good.
• Lighting – Zoo Med UV florescent bulb, 1 100W Exo Terra infrared bulb, 1 100W ceramic infrared. Everything off at around 8:00 pm Is your UVB a screw in bulb? If so you need a T5HO fixture that runs the width of his cage with a 5.0 bulb. This is very very important so he does not develope MBD. When you say infared are you meaning the kind that produce a red light or the kind that produce no light?
• Temperature – in winter between 67 (at night) and 90, now between 70-90 degrees
• Humidity – it’s very dry here in Durango – no humidifier right now. We use an intermittent mister What are you humidity levels?
• Plants – One sm. ficus plant, artificial plants I would fill out the entire cage with live plants. You also need many more horizontal branches for him. He should be basking while holding on to a branch not the cage.
• Placement – In my daughter’s room by a window – at night we roll the cart back so he’s not directly against a window.
• Location - US, Durango Colorado

THis youtube is done by one of our members @Gingero and will be extremely helpful for you. https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

 

[Beman]

Oh, and yes, UVB is a screw in bulb

Ok I just gave you a ton of info. Try not to get overwhelmed...

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

How often are you misting the fake plants for and how often? Right now it's set at every 4 hrs for 20 sec. Currently humidity here in Durango is 12%. That was news re: the Retavite with D3 (new owners). Do you have any recommendations for online resources for safe (no pesticides, etc.) plants? Will work on the UVB, horizontal branches, fecal test.

 

[CasqueAbove]

How often are you misting the fake plants for and how often? Right now it's set at every 4 hrs for 20 sec. Currently humidity here in Durango is 12%. That was news re: the Retavite with D3 (new owners). Do you have any recommendations for online resources for safe (no pesticides, etc.) plants? Will work on the UVB, horizontal branches, fecal test.

I think @Beman will give you great advice. You are on your way to a happy chameleon.

 

[Beman]

How often are you misting the fake plants for and how often? Right now it's set at every 4 hrs for 20 sec. Currently humidity here in Durango is 12%. That was news re: the Retavite with D3 (new owners). Do you have any recommendations for online resources for safe (no pesticides, etc.) plants? Will work on the UVB, horizontal branches, fecal test.

So some of our members that live in very low humidity levels like you do will put a cool mist room humidifier in the room that the cham is in. Not right next to the cage though. You do not want wet moist air blowing directly in where heat from lamps are or you can create the perfect environment for a respiratory infection. By adding this to the room you will up the ambient humidity level. This should be 30-50%max for daytime. At night it can be up to 100% because temps are lower and lights are off.

Yeah reptivite is a great product but their mass instructions do not work for all animals. Which is why it is good to have us that are familiar with how to use it specific to chams. So you just need that every other week so it is 2 times a month and then get rep cal calcium without D3 for all other feedings.


For plants go to your local nursery, lowes, homedepot. You will get a great selection this way of more mature plants... You can rinse plants off, repot in organic soil, and add 1 inch or larger rock to the top of the soil to keep the cham out of it. I love this website and if you look at the plants he shows ones that are veiled tested (they eat their plants so you have to be more cautious of what you add in. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/

Horizontal branches... If you have non sap producing trees in your yard... Go cut your branches... wash and rinse then let them bake in the sun for a few days. Add to cage. You can attach with zip ties.

Let us know if you have other questions.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

So some of our members that live in very low humidity levels like you do will put a cool mist room humidifier in the room that the cham is in. Not right next to the cage though. You do not want wet moist air blowing directly in where heat from lamps are or you can create the perfect environment for a respiratory infection. By adding this to the room you will up the ambient humidity level. This should be 30-50%max for daytime. At night it can be up to 100% because temps are lower and lights are off.

Yeah reptivite is a great product but their mass instructions do not work for all animals. Which is why it is good to have us that are familiar with how to use it specific to chams. So you just need that every other week so it is 2 times a month and then get rep cal calcium without D3 for all other feedings.


For plants go to your local nursery, lowes, homedepot. You will get a great selection this way of more mature plants... You can rinse plants off, repot in organic soil, and add 1 inch or larger rock to the top of the soil to keep the cham out of it. I love this website and if you look at the plants he shows ones that are veiled tested (they eat their plants so you have to be more cautious of what you add in. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/

Horizontal branches... If you have non sap producing trees in your yard... Go cut your branches... wash and rinse then let them bake in the sun for a few days. Add to cage. You can attach with zip ties.

Let us know if you have other questions.

Thank you, super helpful

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Update: Since my first post we have added the 3' long T5HO, 3 live plants (ficus, umbrella and draceana - washed and in organic soil - we could only find sm plants), a couple of branches and silk leaf vines for more cover, and removed the fountain (adding a drip to the mister we already had going). We got calcium without D3 but it's a moot point because he's still not eating with the exception of a week ago when we offered roaches and a superworm. He ate 3 roaches and the worm , but has not been interested in roaches or superworms since. Wont' eat wax worms or crickets. 2 days ago he ate a snap pea that I'd cut into pieces and put on a branch. [Again, prior to 3 weeks ago he ate 9-10 crickets a day, plus a few wax worms in the every two days or so, and one snap pea every afternoon. A rasberry approx. once a week.] We had a mobile reptile vet come last week - she said he looked quite healthy, was at 200g then. We are having his poop analyzed but haven't heard back yet on that. Behavior - same as what started 3 weeks ago. Still very eager to get out of cage repeatedly during the day. As soon as any of us are nearby, he goes to the enclosure door and will go along the edge, waiting for it to open (see pic). Once out he's on the move. Not trying to hide at all, attracted to windows, constantly trying to get somewhere. We've had him outside for brief periods, he freezes there but then starts moving. How long can he safely go without eating? We are worried. One caveat re: the roaches: We are 80% sure he ate 3 a week ago, but since my daughter didn't actually wait and watch, it's possible they managed to escape the container.

 

[Beman]

Update: Since my first post we have added the 3' long T5HO, 3 live plants (ficus, umbrella and draceana - washed and in organic soil - we could only find sm plants), a couple of branches and silk leaf vines for more cover, and removed the fountain (adding a drip to the mister we already had going). We got calcium without D3 but it's a moot point because he's still not eating with the exception of a week ago when we offered roaches and a superworm. He ate 3 roaches and the worm , but has not been interested in roaches or superworms since. Wont' eat wax worms or crickets. 2 days ago he ate a snap pea that I'd cut into pieces and put on a branch. [Again, prior to 3 weeks ago he ate 9-10 crickets a day, plus a few wax worms in the every two days or so, and one snap pea every afternoon. A rasberry approx. once a week.] We had a mobile reptile vet come last week - she said he looked quite healthy, was at 200g then. We are having his poop analyzed but haven't heard back yet on that. Behavior - same as what started 3 weeks ago. Still very eager to get out of cage repeatedly during the day. As soon as any of us are nearby, he goes to the enclosure door and will go along the edge, waiting for it to open (see pic). Once out he's on the move. Not trying to hide at all, attracted to windows, constantly trying to get somewhere. We've had him outside for brief periods, he freezes there but then starts moving. How long can he safely go without eating? We are worried. One caveat re: the roaches: We are 80% sure he ate 3 a week ago, but since my daughter didn't actually wait and watch, it's possible they managed to escape the container.

So it is a matter of waiting on that fecal to come back to make sure it is not a parasite issue. It is not uncommon for them to go off food. With the new T5HO fixture being added did you get a 5.0 bulb for it? And what is the closest distance that he can get to for basking now?
He has hit the point of being mature now and looking for a mate. Him wanting out does not surprise me. When you are able to get more mature plants to fill out that cage more it will help.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

So it is a matter of waiting on that fecal to come back to make sure it is not a parasite issue. It is not uncommon for them to go off food. With the new T5HO fixture being added did you get a 5.0 bulb for it? And what is the closest distance that he can get to for basking now?
He has hit the point of being mature now and looking for a mate. Him wanting out does not surprise me. When you are able to get more mature plants to fill out that cage more it will help.

Yes, it's a 5.0 bulb. That upper shelf is about 8" from the top, there's a branch that runs on top of that, so I'd say about 6" away is the closest he can get.

 

[Beman]

Yes, it's a 5.0 bulb. That upper shelf is about 8" from the top, there's a branch that runs on top of that, so I'd say about 6" away is the closest he can get.

Ok if that is where he is typically basking then you need to raise the fixture up. I can not give you an exact because I do not have a way to test my bulbs in a single bulb fixture without screen but I will say that it is way too close. Screen that is the typical window screening used on cages blocks about 40% of the UVB. Since you have open caging it is going to allow almost all the UVB to pass through with little reduction.

I am going to tag someone in to see if they can give you a better idea of distance. @Gingero can you test your single fixture bulb (I believe you run 6%) to see what the distance to basking would be to give them a 3 UVI without anything blocking the UVB? I have a quad and can not give them a reading. They have a cage that has the wider open spacing on top allowing full UVB penetration.

 

[Gingero]

I'm currently running a 12%. Working on an enclosure with a 6%... but it won't be ready for another 2 weeks or so.

 

[Beman]

I'm currently running a 12%. Working on an enclosure with a 6%... but it won't be ready for another 2 weeks or so.

Do you have a 6% you can put in a single bulb fixture and pull a reading without anything blocking the light to get a distance for a 3 UVI?

 

[Gingero]

I do have a brand new 6% hanging around so I could. Not sure I'll be able to get to it today though.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Ok, I'll wait for further instruction. I can lower that top shelf. BTW, his behavior has changed - he's no longer anxious to get out and is starting to shed.

 

[Beman]

I do have a brand new 6% hanging around so I could. Not sure I'll be able to get to it today though.

When you get a chance that would be great! I have the bulb but not a single fixture to give a reading. All the info I have for UVI levels are based on going through screen so I do not have an approximate I can give for not going through screen.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Now I am worried about the UVB being too close - raising it up is not very feasible. Wondering if we should go back to the large lamp our local fish & reptile place originally recommended.

 

[Beman]

Now I am worried about the UVB being too close - raising it up is not very feasible. Wondering if we should go back to the large lamp our local fish & reptile place originally recommended.

What do you mean by large lamp? The only lights recommended are the T5HO fixtures. 2in1 bulbs that are heat and UVB are far too strong for use without a solarmeter to check your levels. It may not mean raising it up but it will mean dropping the closest point he can get to and pulling the shelf out. Unfortunately your cage is not something we typically use indoors. So while the information is not directly at hand it does not mean I can not get it for you.

With yesterday being Mother's Day people were busy. Hopefully @Gingero will be able to test it today to get a distance for you.