Vitamin A in Silkworms Fed Silkworm Chow

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy All,

I ran across an article from Zoo Biology 22:147–162 (2003): "Gut Loading to Enhance the Nutrient Content of Insects As Food for Reptiles: A Mathematical Approach" By Mark D. Finken. It is full of interesting info but at the moment, I'm not sure if I'm able to post it since it is normally a "pay-per-view" kinda document .

One interesting statement in it was about silkworms and Vitamin A:

"The base diet for the silkworm larvae was Mulberry Farms Silkworm Chow... Vitamin A fortification of the silkworm diet was not studied, because it was previously shown [Finke, 2002] that silkworms fed this diet contain adequate vitamin A."

So maybe we are supplying our chameleons enough vitamin A if our silkworms are fed the standard Mulberry Farms Silkworm Chow.

Here's the abstract for the ~15 page document:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104519742/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Mark D. Finken seems to be some kind of nutritional researcher. He's got a handful of papers published etc. This one sounds particularly tasty: "Nutrient composition of bee brood and its potential as human food" .

 

[desultadox]

Noooooo! You can't end the everlasting vitamin A debate in one fell swoop like that!! ;p

 

[Dave Weldon]

Noooooo! You can't end the everlasting vitamin A debate in one fell swoop like that!! ;p

Howdy Chris,

Ahhh, if it were only that easy . Another way to interpret the article is that if you are feeding silkworms the silkworm chow and your chameleon isn't doing well then one might be tempted to blame it on an overdose of vitamin A .
Actually, most of the time, my silkworms live-off of fresh mulberry leaves so now I don't have any idea of how much vitamin A my chameleons get from silkworms . I continue to add a tiny dose once in a while to hedge my bet .

As I think someone already mentioned elsewhere, not all chameleons (within a species or a locale or even a clutch!) are the same. What does seem to show-up, statistically, is that if vitamin A is removed from the marketplace then there will be a negative shift in the distribution of healthy vs. sick chameleons within the chameleon community. This was demonstrated by what happened back in the early 90's when vitamin A was pulled from dusts and the result was an increase in illness as noted by Vets. At the same time, if the community isn't careful, we might start seeing the ill effects of vitamin A overdosing. Being cautious is warranted .

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Being cautious is warranted .

EXACTLY!

Great information Dave, and good advice.
Everything in moderation has worked well here so far.
Vitamin A is part of my supp. schedule:

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/supplements.html

but, only about as often as D3 (once or twice a month), in very small dosages.

-Brad

 

[sandrachameleon]

Wow, interesting. I have been (and at this point remain) in the camp of never have, no problems, so never will provide direct Vitamin A supplementation. I did know that the very occasional use of cat/dog/fish food for my roaches may have indirectly provided some to my chameleons. But I also do use silkworms (not every month, but several in a year). They are fed leaves if I have them in the late spring or summer. they are fed a rehydrated powder chow (not from mulberry farms) if i have them in the fall or winter. I wonder if the leaves contain preformed vitamin A or beta carotene? wonder if all the chows contain vitamin A? I wonder if indeed I have indirectly provided Vitamin A more than I had thought.

 

[jannb]

Wow, interesting. I have been (and at this point remain) in the camp of never have, no problems, so never will provide direct Vitamin A supplementation. I did know that the very occasional use of cat/dog/fish food for my roaches may have indirectly provided some to my chameleons. But I also do use silkworms (not every month, but several in a year). They are fed leaves if I have them in the late spring or summer. they are fed a rehydrated powder chow (not from mulberry farms) if i have them in the fall or winter. I wonder if the leaves contain preformed vitamin A or beta carotene? wonder if all the chows contain vitamin A? I wonder if indeed I have indirectly provided Vitamin A more than I had thought.

I buy at Coastal Silkworms. Wonder if all the chow's the same????

 

[Brad Ramsey]

My guess would be that it is like any other recipe, there may be some slight variations but it's probably all pretty much the same.

-Brad

 

[Todnedo]

For proform I juice greens high in vit. A
For preform I use cod liver oil.
I inject it into the feeders. Proform I use quite often (couple times a week)
Preform is used a couple times per month.

I believe in the wild chameleons eat alot of plant eating insects (proform vit. A) with the occasional lizard or snail (preform vit. A).

 

[Brad Ramsey]

For preform I juice greens high in vit. A
For proform I use cod liver oil.
I inject it into the feeders. Preform I use quite often (couple times a week)
Proform is used a couple times per month.

I believe in the wild chameleons eat alot of plant eating insects (preform vit. A) with the occasional lizard or snail (proform vit. A).

I'm not meaning to correct you .... but clarification is required.
I think those are backward.
preformed is from an animal source (fish oil)
and proformed is beta carotene.

-Brad

 

[Todnedo]

Thanks Brad.

 

[mojolao]

I also readed carefully this publication for a while.
M.D.Finke gathered some really interesting data. His work helped me to make some ‘chow’ for the caterpillars I bred. See:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/our-europen-hornworm-16073/

I wonder if the leaves contain preformed vitamin A or beta carotene?

In my opinion, mulberry leaves contain essentially chlorophyll. I’m not sure silkworm need vitamin A in a high level to develop. Mostly literature suggests that vitamin C is more essential for a good development in caterpillars…and of course for further development of the butterflies.

Wonder if all the chow's the same????

I do agree with Brad. The recipes I found here and there were using practically the same ingredients. The change mainly comes from the nature of the introduced protein, some people also added leaves reduced in powder obtained from host-plant (my case and probably some other people).