Vitamins...
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westcoastchameleons
New Member
Most people use http://www.turtlestuff.com/shop/images/57.jpghttp://www.turtlestuff.com/shop/images/57.jpg
that is for dusting supplements
and http://www.brianstropicals.com/repcal.JPG for the calcium supplements for indoor critters.
and for babies i would use the herptivite 2 times per week, and calcium with d3 4-5 times per.
thanks,
Jake
that is for dusting supplements
and http://www.brianstropicals.com/repcal.JPG for the calcium supplements for indoor critters.
and for babies i would use the herptivite 2 times per week, and calcium with d3 4-5 times per.
thanks,
Jake
Electric
New Member
I am in no way saying you're wrong but, doesn't 4-5 days a week of d3 sound a bit much for a baby? Assuming it's also getting regular uvb lighting and natural sunlight when possible...
I ask this mostly because wouldn't the smaller size of the younger ones make them even more susceptible to overloading their system with d3 to toxic levels?
when I bought my chameleon the not-so knowledgeable 'clerk' picked up the supplements and said "these are NON NEGOTIABLE when buying a chameleon, dust with calcium EVERY feeding". Now I don't know if the guy knew or not, or if he just thought it was pure calcium, but that calcium had d3 in it (and other minerals). So following his recommendations I pretty much dusted with it for about 2 weeks until I read that they can 'overdose' on d3, no harm seems to have been done but I quickly stopped giving it to him and haven't gave him any since, to try and let it 'evacuate' from his system..
I ask this mostly because wouldn't the smaller size of the younger ones make them even more susceptible to overloading their system with d3 to toxic levels?
when I bought my chameleon the not-so knowledgeable 'clerk' picked up the supplements and said "these are NON NEGOTIABLE when buying a chameleon, dust with calcium EVERY feeding". Now I don't know if the guy knew or not, or if he just thought it was pure calcium, but that calcium had d3 in it (and other minerals). So following his recommendations I pretty much dusted with it for about 2 weeks until I read that they can 'overdose' on d3, no harm seems to have been done but I quickly stopped giving it to him and haven't gave him any since, to try and let it 'evacuate' from his system..
MWheelock
Veterinarian
Hey,
I'm not familiar with all products that are out there, but Repton is a general multivitamin. How good is it? I personally don't know.
For a panther that is only going to live inside with UVB and not going outside, I'd probably dust with a multivitamin 2 times a week and calcium with D3 twice a week (alternating). Once the cham is 6-8 months, I'd start slowing down to once a week of each. (I like herpavite as the multivitamin and Rep-cal calcium with D3, though that's just my personal preference. Other products are good as well, just do your research...)
If your cham is getting 45 minutes of sun (not through any glass) I'd probably do calcium with D3 maybe 1 time a month, but would supplement calcium powder without D3 2 times a week. (Remember, the sun will create it's own D3 and you don't want to deal with the cham getting too much calcium into the system) I'd still give vitamin 2 times a week until 6-8 months of age.
Do remember that most supplements don't have much of a shelf-life once opened (even though it is not on the label.) Every 6 months, I'd toss old supplement (and there is usually a lot) and get a new supply..
Good luck,
Matthew
I'm not familiar with all products that are out there, but Repton is a general multivitamin. How good is it? I personally don't know.
For a panther that is only going to live inside with UVB and not going outside, I'd probably dust with a multivitamin 2 times a week and calcium with D3 twice a week (alternating). Once the cham is 6-8 months, I'd start slowing down to once a week of each. (I like herpavite as the multivitamin and Rep-cal calcium with D3, though that's just my personal preference. Other products are good as well, just do your research...)
If your cham is getting 45 minutes of sun (not through any glass) I'd probably do calcium with D3 maybe 1 time a month, but would supplement calcium powder without D3 2 times a week. (Remember, the sun will create it's own D3 and you don't want to deal with the cham getting too much calcium into the system) I'd still give vitamin 2 times a week until 6-8 months of age.
Do remember that most supplements don't have much of a shelf-life once opened (even though it is not on the label.) Every 6 months, I'd toss old supplement (and there is usually a lot) and get a new supply..
Good luck,
Matthew
Vegas Chad
Avid Member
Shoot Liddy a mail (kammer) she has a real good care sheet that has some tips for dust'n ur bugs.
koabich
New Member
Try the supplements and supplement schedule below. It is from Ed and Liddy and Kammer:
Herptivite (multivitamin with beta-carotene) - Mondays and Thursdays
Rep-Cal Calcium (calcium with and w/out vitamin D3 - depending on indoor or outdoor use) - Tuesdays and Fridays
Miner-All (calcium with essential trace minerals) - Wednesdays and Saturdays
Herptivite (multivitamin with beta-carotene) - Mondays and Thursdays
Rep-Cal Calcium (calcium with and w/out vitamin D3 - depending on indoor or outdoor use) - Tuesdays and Fridays
Miner-All (calcium with essential trace minerals) - Wednesdays and Saturdays
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
I may be criticized for this ...(that's fine) I don't have near the experience the Kammer's do. .... but that dusting schedule seems heavy to me...even for a baby.
In the last 6 to 12 months there has been a decent amount of fresh info on supplementing and some different theories....most pointing to a much lighter regimen, with more concentration on quality of gut-loads and natural sunlight.
Any thoughts? Everyone has different ideas about this and obviously the Kammer's are doing a lot (if not everything) right.....but.....
I can't help but question that heavy of a supplementing routine.
-Brad
In the last 6 to 12 months there has been a decent amount of fresh info on supplementing and some different theories....most pointing to a much lighter regimen, with more concentration on quality of gut-loads and natural sunlight.
Any thoughts? Everyone has different ideas about this and obviously the Kammer's are doing a lot (if not everything) right.....but.....
I can't help but question that heavy of a supplementing routine.
-Brad
koabich
New Member
I agree that there is so much new information lately and that stuff can change on a pretty constant basis. For me right now, until I actually hear/read something based on:
1) actual scientific studies/fact
2) long term studies
3) studies done using a viable population of chams not just 2 or 3 or 10
I am going to stick with the Kammers recommendation as they have been using this schedule for a long time and have had nothing but perfect sucess with it. I am also not aware of anyone who raises more babies or adult chams as them. Even though there may be no scientific research to support their recommendation (there may be, I am just not aware of it), the fact that they raise a ton of babies and adult chams that are perfectly healthy using this schedule for years is proof enough for me that it works and is safe.
Keep in mind also there are some feeders for babies that you do not dust (something I should have mentioned in my first post), even if the schedule states it's a dusting day. Items like flies and fruit flies do not get dusted in their schedule. If you feed babies these items 2-3 days a week, then here we have 3-4 days a week that food does not get dusted. They also do recommend a quality gutload and recommended me to Cricketfood.com for my needs.
One thing they did warn me about was to very lightly dust the feeders. It should be so light that you cannot or can barley notice a change in color of the insect. The vast majority of pictures I see of feeders show feeders dusted way too heavily. Gotta love those White Crickets!! And you can tell they are white from dusting and not from molting...LOL
If there is new information out there, please post the links as I would like to read up on it. All the stuff I have read lately has been written in such a way it was so far over my head, I couldn't understand it.
1) actual scientific studies/fact
2) long term studies
3) studies done using a viable population of chams not just 2 or 3 or 10
I am going to stick with the Kammers recommendation as they have been using this schedule for a long time and have had nothing but perfect sucess with it. I am also not aware of anyone who raises more babies or adult chams as them. Even though there may be no scientific research to support their recommendation (there may be, I am just not aware of it), the fact that they raise a ton of babies and adult chams that are perfectly healthy using this schedule for years is proof enough for me that it works and is safe.
Keep in mind also there are some feeders for babies that you do not dust (something I should have mentioned in my first post), even if the schedule states it's a dusting day. Items like flies and fruit flies do not get dusted in their schedule. If you feed babies these items 2-3 days a week, then here we have 3-4 days a week that food does not get dusted. They also do recommend a quality gutload and recommended me to Cricketfood.com for my needs.
One thing they did warn me about was to very lightly dust the feeders. It should be so light that you cannot or can barley notice a change in color of the insect. The vast majority of pictures I see of feeders show feeders dusted way too heavily. Gotta love those White Crickets!! And you can tell they are white from dusting and not from molting...LOL
If there is new information out there, please post the links as I would like to read up on it. All the stuff I have read lately has been written in such a way it was so far over my head, I couldn't understand it.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Koabich,
I completely agree with your assesment of the Kammers and am happy to hear the recommendation to "dust very lightly" (these are small animals).
The old adage: "if it ain't broke...." certainly applies.
My motive with the above post was more to incite a debate/ discussion then criticize the Kammers. As we know things do adjust as more is learned with these animals and I hope others will contribute to this thread with their experience and possibly some links etc.
Unfortunately, there is no conclusive info...as far as I can determine from my research. Supplementing is at best educated guesswork.
My personal experience with a baby veiled on a similarly "heavy" dusting regimen resulted in a decent amount of excess salts and minerals being excreted from the animals nostrils (a good indicator to "cut back").
There is another saying which I have since adopted in regard to supps.
"less is more" ....which would also apply (as suggested by the Kammers) to the amount of powder used when dusting.
-Brad
I completely agree with your assesment of the Kammers and am happy to hear the recommendation to "dust very lightly" (these are small animals).
The old adage: "if it ain't broke...." certainly applies.
My motive with the above post was more to incite a debate/ discussion then criticize the Kammers. As we know things do adjust as more is learned with these animals and I hope others will contribute to this thread with their experience and possibly some links etc.
Unfortunately, there is no conclusive info...as far as I can determine from my research. Supplementing is at best educated guesswork.
My personal experience with a baby veiled on a similarly "heavy" dusting regimen resulted in a decent amount of excess salts and minerals being excreted from the animals nostrils (a good indicator to "cut back").
There is another saying which I have since adopted in regard to supps.
"less is more" ....which would also apply (as suggested by the Kammers) to the amount of powder used when dusting.
-Brad
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
You're welcome ....and no offense taken!
This is a good discussion.
-Brad
This is a good discussion.
-Brad
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