Wellness Check-In

[Sgt. Bilko]

Hello Forum Family!

My family recently went on holiday for a couple of weeks and left our cham in the care of a relative. We left a detailed care sheet, to ensure husbandry was as much the same as when we are home. As much as I can tell, the care was good. However, a couple of days back, I've notice Kam the chameleon acting and looking a bit differently. His color is a bit pale (no gaping) and he lays in his basking spot (vs. standing). Below is the info on Kam's care.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male, Nosy-Be Panther. He's 8 months old and has been in my care since mid September 2023
• Handling - Rarely. He was handled when we initially introduced him to his new home. We have not tried to handle him, but my son hand feeds him.
• Feeding - 10-12 large crickets daily (Josh Frog auto-delivery)? Crickets are fed Halo Tangerines, Romain lettuce and Repashy Bug Burger.
• Supplements - Crickets dusted with Repti-Calcium (Zoo Med) daily and 2x a month Repashy Calcium Plus LoD
• Watering - See inventory. MistKing Mister with 6 misting heads. Refer to schedule below. We have witnessed our Cham drinking off of the leaves and branches.
• Fecal Description - Feces is oval, white (yellow) and black. Appears firm. Has not been tested for parasites.
• History - Normal behavior and cover until recent vacation and temp care-giver. Re-arranged his plants due to the die-off of his main coverage plant the fortune tree. Will post pictures of before and after. Did the re-arrangement 5-Jan-2023.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Custom 4'x2'x4' Hybrid Terrarium. Details are in this thread
• Lighting - See inventory. UVB is ARCADIA 6% UVB T5 HO in a Vivarium Electronics T5 HO Fixture. Basking Herpstat 1 temperature controller, controlling 100W Zoo Med Bulb in Zoo Med Deep Dome fixture.
• Temperature - Top (basking area): Max 90F, Min 62F Ave 75F. Bottom: Max 73F, Min 59F, Ave 65F. Measured by Govee pucks. Will post charts later.
• Humidity - Top (basking area): Max 92%, Min 33%, Ave 60% Bottom: Max 95%, Min 65%, Ave 88%. Will post charts later.
• Plants - Live plants. Prayer, Pothos, Swiss Cheese, Umbrella and Monstera. I had a fortune tree, but it died due to root rot (too much moisture / wrong potting mix for drainage)
• Placement - Terrarium is located in the side room of our kitchen, away from HVAC ventilation. Top of the terrarium is as high as I can get to the ceiling with lighting, roughly 7 feet at the top.
• Location - Chicago-land area.

Detailed Inventory:

Item No	Item	Model	Spec Details
I	Day Light (plant light)	Mars Hydro TSL2000	2' x 4' 300 Watt LED
II	UVB	Vivarium Electronics T5 HO Fixture	1 - Arcadia 6% T5 HO Bulb
III	Basking Lamp	Zoo Med Repti Deep Dome Lamp + HERPSTAT1	1 - Exo-Terra 100W Daytime Heat Lamp
IV	Fogger	Leap Programmable Fogging System	1 - Flex tube into terrarium
V	Mist	MistKing V5 Starter Misting Kit	6 - MistKing Mist Heads
VI	Dripper	CrocSee Self Priming Pump 30PSI	5 - Orbit 1 GPH Drip Heads
VII	Ventilation	Noctua VF-A20	200x30mm 146.9 M2/Hr

Detailed Schedule:

Current Problem - See above intro message.

Pictures:

Before Vacation:

Today:

 

[Gloriawood]

I’m still fairly new and I have a veiled, but with the weather change my guy has slowed down a bit. Could that possibly be it? Or does he have a shed coming on?

 

[Sherbertsmysunshine]

When is the last time he shed? Have your tempatures dropped recently?

 

[elizaann2]

Well hello! Thank you for filling out the husbandry form. See my response below in bold:

• Your Chameleon - Male, Nosy-Be Panther. He's 8 months old and has been in my care since mid September 2023
• Handling - Rarely. He was handled when we initially introduced him to his new home. We have not tried to handle him, but my son hand feeds him. Perfect!
• Feeding - 10-12 large crickets daily (Josh Frog auto-delivery)? Crickets are fed Halo Tangerines, Romain lettuce and Repashy Bug Burger. Great, lettuce really doesn't provide any nutritional value, I'll attach a document with other feeders that you can give him to switch up his diet as well as a list of fruits and veggies that are great for gut-loading your bugs.
• Supplements - Crickets dusted with Repti-Calcium (Zoo Med) daily and 2x a month Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. Perfect!!
• Watering - See inventory. MistKing Mister with 6 misting heads. Refer to schedule below. We have witnessed our Cham drinking off of the leaves and branches. Perfect
• Fecal Description - Feces is oval, white (yellow) and black. Appears firm. Has not been tested for parasites. I would strongly recommend getting him tested for parasites
• History - Normal behavior and cover until recent vacation and temp care-giver. Re-arranged his plants due to the die-off of his main coverage plant the fortune tree. Will post pictures of before and after. Did the re-arrangement 5-Jan-2023.

 

[elizaann2]

• Cage Type - Custom 4'x2'x4' Hybrid Terrarium. Details are in this thread. yep, I remember your enclosure. Absolutely stunning.
• Lighting - See inventory. UVB is ARCADIA 6% UVB T5 HO in a Vivarium Electronics T5 HO Fixture. Basking Herpstat 1 temperature controller, controlling 100W Zoo Med Bulb in Zoo Med Deep Dome fixture. How long has it been since you changed your Arcadia UVB? Do have a solar meter to test your UVB light with?
• Temperature - Top (basking area): Max 90F, Min 62F Ave 75F. Bottom: Max 73F, Min 59F, Ave 65F. Measured by Govee pucks. Will post charts later. I am assuming your minimums are during the night and max is duriing the day? LMK The only thing I would suggest here is lowering your heat temp. Your beautiful boy should actually be getting closer to 80 degrees at his basking spot.
• Humidity - Top (basking area): Max 92%, Min 33%, Ave 60% Bottom: Max 95%, Min 65%, Ave 88%. Will post charts later. Also assuming that the high humidity levels are at night with low humidity is during the day? LMK. The only thing here is 33% humidity is a little low, for a panther I wouldn't go below 40%.
• Plants - Live plants. Prayer, Pothos, Swiss Cheese, Umbrella and Monstera. I had a fortune tree, but it died due to root rot (too much moisture / wrong potting mix for drainage). Perfect! Sorry about your fortune tree though..
• Placement - Terrarium is located in the side room of our kitchen, away from HVAC ventilation. Top of the terrarium is as high as I can get to the ceiling with lighting, roughly 7 feet at the top. Beautiful
• Location - Chicago-land area.

My thoughts on what it might be:
1. He is too hot
2. A shed is coming on
3. Parasites
4. UVB might need to be changed

 

[MissSkittles]

Some male panthers will have their colors fade for some time. I don’t believe it’s fully understood why or why it’s just some and not all. It’s possibly related to seasons, specifically winter. I had a full adult who paled for a few months and now a juvenile who has paled over the past couple of weeks. Care is great and chameleons are healthy - just pale.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/panthers-mid-life-crisis-color-change.76455/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/faded-colors-on-panther-chameleon.157461/#post-1348937
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/panther-colour-change-over-time.190163/#post-1766053

 

[Kodyf]

You received great info from @MissSkittles you are in good hands with her info

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

When is the last time he shed? Have your tempatures dropped recently?

He’s actually shedding slightly now. Full shed was a month ago. Temps indoors at night are the only real noticeable change. With winter the house gets as low as 65 at night.

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

Well hello! Thank you for filling out the husbandry form. See my response below in bold:

• Your Chameleon - Male, Nosy-Be Panther. He's 8 months old and has been in my care since mid September 2023
• Handling - Rarely. He was handled when we initially introduced him to his new home. We have not tried to handle him, but my son hand feeds him. Perfect!
• Feeding - 10-12 large crickets daily (Josh Frog auto-delivery)? Crickets are fed Halo Tangerines, Romain lettuce and Repashy Bug Burger. Great, lettuce really doesn't provide any nutritional value, I'll attach a document with other feeders that you can give him to switch up his diet as well as a list of fruits and veggies that are great for gut-loading your bugs.
• Supplements - Crickets dusted with Repti-Calcium (Zoo Med) daily and 2x a month Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. Perfect!!
• Watering - See inventory. MistKing Mister with 6 misting heads. Refer to schedule below. We have witnessed our Cham drinking off of the leaves and branches. Perfect
• Fecal Description - Feces is oval, white (yellow) and black. Appears firm. Has not been tested for parasites. I would strongly recommend getting him tested for parasites
• History - Normal behavior and cover until recent vacation and temp care-giver. Re-arranged his plants due to the die-off of his main coverage plant the fortune tree. Will post pictures of before and after. Did the re-arrangement 5-Jan-2023.

Thanks for the info. Will definitely take this advice.

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

• Cage Type - Custom 4'x2'x4' Hybrid Terrarium. Details are in this thread. yep, I remember your enclosure. Absolutely stunning.
• Lighting - See inventory. UVB is ARCADIA 6% UVB T5 HO in a Vivarium Electronics T5 HO Fixture. Basking Herpstat 1 temperature controller, controlling 100W Zoo Med Bulb in Zoo Med Deep Dome fixture. How long has it been since you changed your Arcadia UVB? Do have a solar meter to test your UVB light with?
• Temperature - Top (basking area): Max 90F, Min 62F Ave 75F. Bottom: Max 73F, Min 59F, Ave 65F. Measured by Govee pucks. Will post charts later. I am assuming your minimums are during the night and max is duriing the day? LMK The only thing I would suggest here is lowering your heat temp. Your beautiful boy should actually be getting closer to 80 degrees at his basking spot.
• Humidity - Top (basking area): Max 92%, Min 33%, Ave 60% Bottom: Max 95%, Min 65%, Ave 88%. Will post charts later. Also assuming that the high humidity levels are at night with low humidity is during the day? LMK. The only thing here is 33% humidity is a little low, for a panther I wouldn't go below 40%.
• Plants - Live plants. Prayer, Pothos, Swiss Cheese, Umbrella and Monstera. I had a fortune tree, but it died due to root rot (too much moisture / wrong potting mix for drainage). Perfect! Sorry about your fortune tree though..
• Placement - Terrarium is located in the side room of our kitchen, away from HVAC ventilation. Top of the terrarium is as high as I can get to the ceiling with lighting, roughly 7 feet at the top. Beautiful
• Location - Chicago-land area.

My thoughts on what it might be:
1. He is too hot
2. A shed is coming on
3. Parasites
4. UVB might need to be changed

A quick check on my UVB situation.

I have the UVB near the mid-back of the enclosure. Front of the enclosure is the plant light. My measurements today were:

1.9-2.3 near the basking and middle perch branch.

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

• Cage Type - Custom 4'x2'x4' Hybrid Terrarium. Details are in this thread. yep, I remember your enclosure. Absolutely stunning.
• Lighting - See inventory. UVB is ARCADIA 6% UVB T5 HO in a Vivarium Electronics T5 HO Fixture. Basking Herpstat 1 temperature controller, controlling 100W Zoo Med Bulb in Zoo Med Deep Dome fixture. How long has it been since you changed your Arcadia UVB? Do have a solar meter to test your UVB light with?
• Temperature - Top (basking area): Max 90F, Min 62F Ave 75F. Bottom: Max 73F, Min 59F, Ave 65F. Measured by Govee pucks. Will post charts later. I am assuming your minimums are during the night and max is duriing the day? LMK The only thing I would suggest here is lowering your heat temp. Your beautiful boy should actually be getting closer to 80 degrees at his basking spot.
• Humidity - Top (basking area): Max 92%, Min 33%, Ave 60% Bottom: Max 95%, Min 65%, Ave 88%. Will post charts later. Also assuming that the high humidity levels are at night with low humidity is during the day? LMK. The only thing here is 33% humidity is a little low, for a panther I wouldn't go below 40%.
• Plants - Live plants. Prayer, Pothos, Swiss Cheese, Umbrella and Monstera. I had a fortune tree, but it died due to root rot (too much moisture / wrong potting mix for drainage). Perfect! Sorry about your fortune tree though..
• Placement - Terrarium is located in the side room of our kitchen, away from HVAC ventilation. Top of the terrarium is as high as I can get to the ceiling with lighting, roughly 7 feet at the top. Beautiful
• Location - Chicago-land area.

My thoughts on what it might be:
1. He is too hot
2. A shed is coming on
3. Parasites
4. UVB might need to be changed

Here are my temp charts. I've reduced the basking temp to 80, from 88.

Typical Winter Day (Jan 3) - Basking, Mid and Lower Terrarium Temperature Data

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

Some male panthers will have their colors fade for some time. I don’t believe it’s fully understood why or why it’s just some and not all. It’s possibly related to seasons, specifically winter. I had a full adult who paled for a few months and now a juvenile who has paled over the past couple of weeks. Care is great and chameleons are healthy - just pale.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/panthers-mid-life-crisis-color-change.76455/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/faded-colors-on-panther-chameleon.157461/#post-1348937
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/panther-colour-change-over-time.190163/#post-1766053

Very interesting and informative threads. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why these didn't come up in my initial search. Maybe I should just search for titles, vs. everything. Post 1348937 is the likely best example of what might be going on.

Also, thanks for your videos on the inter-webs. I used quite a few of them, including the plant prep video recently.

 

[Beman]

A quick check on my UVB situation.

I have the UVB near the mid-back of the enclosure. Front of the enclosure is the plant light. My measurements today were:

1.9-2.3 near the basking and middle perch branch.
View attachment 349209 View attachment 349210

Ok with these... Come up to the height his back sits at.. So this would give you the at branch to top of back range. As long as it is still sitting in that 3UVI at the back your bulbs are good.

 

[Beman]

Tell me about your ambient temps and humidity are you seeing a difference with us going into winter months and running heat? Did you notice the behavior before or after the plants being switched out?

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

Ok with these... Come up to the height his back sits at.. So this would give you the at branch to top of back range. As long as it is still sitting in that 3UVI at the back your bulbs are good.

Hi Beman.

Here’s the measurement. 3.2

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

Tell me about your ambient temps and humidity are you seeing a difference with us going into winter months and running heat? Did you notice the behavior before or after the plants being switched out?

We noticed the behavior change upon return from Holiday and before the plant swap out.

As I’ve been looking through the temp data, I can clearly see a dip in ambient temperature when we left for holiday. I completely forgot about Eco mode on our Nest thermostat. While we are away the temps can go as low as 65 F. Here’s the effect on the enclosure. This is data from the middle Govee puck.

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

Tell me about your ambient temps and humidity are you seeing a difference with us going into winter months and running heat? Did you notice the behavior before or after the plants being switched out?

Speaking of plant rearrangement. Here’s the before and after. I meant to do this work anyway. As mentioned above, my Fortune tree slowly died due to root rot.

I replanted nearly all of the plants using your suggestion. Happy Frog soil with at least 1” clay balls at the bottom for drainage.

Before..note the lack of center foliage

After..rearranged plants and added Swiss cheese/monstera and umbrella plant.

 

[elizaann2]

A quick check on my UVB situation.

I have the UVB near the mid-back of the enclosure. Front of the enclosure is the plant light. My measurements today were:

1.9-2.3 near the basking and middle perch branch.
View attachment 349209 View attachment 349210

Can you find a way to adjust some branches so they read 3.0?

 

[elizaann2]

Speaking of plant rearrangement. Here’s the before and after. I meant to do this work anyway. As mentioned above, my Fortune tree slowly died due to root rot.

I replanted nearly all of the plants using your suggestion. Happy Frog soil with at least 1” clay balls at the bottom for drainage.

Before..note the lack of center foliage
View attachment 349245

After..rearranged plants and added Swiss cheese/monstera and umbrella plant.

View attachment 349246

This looks amazing!!

 

[Sgt. Bilko]

This looks amazing!!

Thanks!