Why are Chams still illegal?

[Petmason]

I live in Ma and in this state it is illegal to have or sell Chameleons. Im not 100% sure why. My theory is: By banning the species, less people would own them, lessen availability to the people that want them. Slowing down importing from the wild. Can anyone one help answer this? Do you think the laws should be changed since captive animals are common? How do you feel about someone like me breaking the law and having chameleons?

Thanks

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I never heard of them being illegal anywhere. It's not like they are dangerous to people or the native animals. The winters up there would kill any Chameleon so them breeding out of control is not an issue Is it towards Chams specfically or are they covered under a general ban on certain lizards?

I wonder if you had some "crusader" go and pass a law because they feel the animals would be better off if people can't own any.....

 

[rcmike]

Yeah, are you sure about that? I did a quick google search and couldn't find anything.

 

[joefarah]

I noticed that you have 1.1 of them even though you think it's illegal to own them where you live...

 

[dodolah]

wait.. isn't owning veiled is illegal in Hawaii?
So, i think there are some states that do not allow having chameleon as pet.

 

[CammieNLeno]

I never heard of them being illegal anywhere. It's not like they are dangerous to people or the native animals. The winters up there would kill any Chameleon so them breeding out of control is not an issue Is it towards Chams specfically or are they covered under a general ban on certain lizards?

I wonder if you had some "crusader" go and pass a law because they feel the animals would be better off if people can't own any.....

In Hawaii, everything but jacksons are illegal. Its a 200k fine if you are busted with just about ANY reptile other than jacks.

The reasoning that the state provides is that they ARE dangerous to other animals, more specifically birds. Between 1998-02, there was a veiled colony that was established on Maui- and they were actually hunted and killed on the spot by state organizations.

 

[jack frost]

In Hawaii, everything but jacksons are illegal. Its a 200k fine if you are busted with just about ANY reptile other than jacks.

The reasoning that the state provides is that they ARE dangerous to other animals, more specifically birds. Between 1998-02, there was a veiled colony that was established on Maui- and they were actually hunted and killed on the spot by state organizations.

Wow!....But I guess after introducing the mongoose and other non native animals they decided if your not from here don't come around here.

 

[SuperRad]

The mass wildlife website says

(c) Lizards: All chameleons (Chameontidae), the Gila Monster and Beaded Lizard
(Heloderatidae), and all Monitors (Varanidae) require a permit. The following lizards may be kept without a permit:

It was taken from this page
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/cmr/cmr_900.htm

I don't know if that's for selling or for keeping i didn't really read much of it.

 

[SuperRad]

and here is the page about exotics in general

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/regulations_exotic.htm

 

[chamlover]

I believe they are also illegal to own in Me, as is tortoises. Don't know why, but they are illegal to own in some states. Didn't you ever notice there are not reptile shows in Ma? In Me there is a reptile show, only red-eared sliders are allowed, no tortoises or chams. I was bummed when i took a 3 hour ride to go there. But we ended up with a sulcata tortoises that someone had hid in his truck. He wanted it rescued, someone left it on his doorstep. Wasn't there also someone who had chams in Hawai and they got loose and are now in the wild. I don't remember the specifics.

Debby

 

[Dankmeleon]

i'm glad almost anything goes in florid except violent crimes and trafficking

 

[Petmason]

Yes Joe I do have 2 Chameleons regardless of the laws. My wife worked at a no kill animal shelter in the area and we are friends with all the animal control officers. So I wont have to worry about getting in trouble (Not that any law enforcement needs to come into my home anyway). Im sure most probably never realized they are illegal. I once read the exemption list that another post quoted but dont remember it saying they need permits to own (I thought they were straight out illegal). Im going to look into getting a permit. I heard from a local reptile shop they permit people that are breeding or using them for educational purposes. I would really like to know why still? Warmer climates like Hawaii make more sense compared to Ma.

Thanks for all the posts if anyone finds info post up as I will if I dig stuff up.

 

[Petmason]

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/cmr/dfw_cmr_200.htm#212

I found this. I read it and to me it doesn't sound like chameleons should be classified under this.

From another site I found:

The director shall draw up a special exemption list of fish, birds, mammals, reptiles and amphibians. Animals to be thus listed shall meet the following criteria: (1) accidental release of the fish, bird, mammal, reptile or amphibian will not result in an adverse effect on the ecology of the commonwealth; (2) the animal in captivity, or escaped therefrom poses no substantial danger to man, by either injury or disease; (3) proper care of the animal is no more demanding in any major respect than proper care of common domestic animals; and (4) trade in the fish, bird, mammal, reptile or amphibian has no significant adverse effect on the wild population of such animal in any of its natural habitats.

What applies to chams and what does not?

 

[SuperRad]

I would suggest calling your fish and game or parks and wildlife department. You don't have to say you have one but say you are interested in purchasing one, and want to know the appropriate steps to take.

 

[Tatooineboy]

I think it differs state to state here in the USA. The FDA would have their regulations, but each state would their own as well.

Ohio is trying to push-thru a law that would make many reptiles illegal to own. Sorry I dont have a link for it, but its in the Ohio House of Reps. Under Ohio Law, every single animal sold should have a 'House Note' from a vet stating that the animal is healthy and free of parasites. This law isn't enforced, obviously, because every single mouse, gold fish, rabbit and lizard should have one of these forms in the pet stores.

I found this little tid-bit out from a Tortoise breeder out in Arizona. I guess the FDA regulates the private sector of animal selling but not the public ones.

 

[SuperRad]

If you have a herpetological association in your city or state, it's a great place to learn about herp information in your area.
In AZ we have the az herp association, and they are very knowledgeable people about rules and regulations regarding exotics. A very active community i might add.

 

[Dankmeleon]

chameleons meet don't meet two of those standards for exemption, it could be argued 3 with the 3rd being as easy as domestication

but chams do pose a threat to local eco system if they mass produce, and trade in the animal does screw with its ability to sustain population in its natural habitat, from my interpretation of what i just read

 

[AFH]

I believe they are also illegal to own in Me, as is tortoises. Don't know why, but they are illegal to own in some states. Didn't you ever notice there are not reptile shows in Ma? In Me there is a reptile show, only red-eared sliders are allowed, no tortoises or chams. I was bummed when i took a 3 hour ride to go there. But we ended up with a sulcata tortoises that someone had hid in his truck. He wanted it rescued, someone left it on his doorstep. Wasn't there also someone who had chams in Hawai and they got loose and are now in the wild. I don't remember the specifics.

Debby

Yeah, that's how the Jackson's ended up there. Apparently, the story is an importer got a couple dozen Jacks and decided that the afternoon rain would be good to rehydrate them after shipment. So he turned them loose in his yard and most of them got away. Hawaii was a perfect habitat and they flourished. Probably why all other species are banned.

 

[Petmason]

Hey everyone,

I am going to look around for a herp society close to where I live. See what info I can learn from them. I was also thinking about calling the Director of fish and wildlife. See what he says sense he can change the law at a public hearing.

1) Chameleons cannot survive the winter in Ma so I don t think it would make an adverse effect on ecology. 2) A chameleon can carry disease like salmonella but so do a lot of reptiles and poultry. 3) The care may differ from a cat but its not much harder than other reptiles. 4) The pet trade i m sure effected wild populations in previous years but now so many captive bred animals are available I'm sure there are a lot less being imported now. I m sure this differers with types of chameleons. Plus I don t think Ma is so huge that we would deplete the wild population.

Just my thoughts anyone agree or disagree?

 

[Morgan1223]

Hey everyone,

I am going to look around for a herp society close to where I live. See what info I can learn from them. I was also thinking about calling the Director of fish and wildlife. See what he says sense he can change the law at a public hearing.

1) Chameleons cannot survive the winter in Ma so I don t think it would make an adverse effect on ecology. 2) A chameleon can carry disease like salmonella but so do a lot of reptiles and poultry. 3) The care may differ from a cat but its not much harder than other reptiles. 4) The pet trade i m sure effected wild populations in previous years but now so many captive bred animals are available I'm sure there are a lot less being imported now. I m sure this differers with types of chameleons. Plus I don t think Ma is so huge that we would deplete the wild population.

Just my thoughts anyone agree or disagree?

Hi all, new to the forum, I love it already.

I actually just bought 2 Fischer's Chameleons at the Manchester, NH Reptile Expo 3 weeks ago, and I'm trying to find out about getting a permit for these guys. I'm kind of scared to apply and then get rejected! I am in the process of joining the NEHERP (New England Herpetological Society www.nerherp.com) because they say they will help with permit applications and appeals. This is pretty stupid that you need a permit for chameleons, but I want to abide by the law so no one can take my babies away! Does anyone have any more info or suggestions?