Will she lay?

[thealissa]

One of my two veiled female chameleons has a clutch of infertile eggs. She is approx. 7.5 months old.

It was about two days ago that I noticed the weirdness. She stopped eating, and her eyes began to sink in. Thinking it wasn't because she had eggs (I keep both the girls' temps in the low 80's and only feed every other day. Also, my other female is older than she is and has never laid) I immediately upped the misting. A day went by and her progress became worse. She is now sitting at the bottom of her cage, eyes closed. Yesterday I gave her some repti-aid (approx. 2 mL) and put a laying bin in her cage. While doing this, I noticed that she had already dropped 4 eggs at the bottom of her cage.

I am worried she won't lay because of how far along she is, and because she simply can't see the laying bin. She is, however, about an inch and a half above it, on a branch. Is there any more I can/should do?

I am willing to take her to the vet, but I do not have $500 to fork out for egg removal that she might not live through.

Extra Info-
cage - 12'' X 12'' X 36''
laying bin - circular bucket, 10qt.
lights - reptiglo tube, on a timer from about 7am to 7pm
Both chams are in a room by themselves, and cannot see each other.

 

[jannb]

She might need a bigger laying bin. My girl will only lay in a large trash can. I'll attach a pic of it. If she doesn't lay soon she may become egg bound and die. The vet can give a shot to induce labor that may help.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/camilles-eggs-43-them-they-fertile-28568/

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

My female laid her first clutch of infertiles all on the floor of the cage and was fine. If you notice anymore weird behavior you can take her to the vet to have her looks at and she if she is eggbound or not. Just cover up her cage so she doesn't see you. Its not good for them to see you because if she was digging and saw you she would stop and make another hole and possibly get stressed and get eggbound. To answer your question yes she probably will la more eggs. I agree the bin may need to be deeper

 

[thealissa]

She might need a bigger laying bin. My girl will only lay in a large trash can. I'll attach a pic of it. If she doesn't lay soon she may become egg bound and die. The vet can give a shot to induce labor that may help.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/camilles-eggs-43-them-they-fertile-28568/

She hasn't had it long enough to refuse it, but I am scared of making the wait any longer and/or stressing her more. She has at least 8 inches of digging room (downwards) and a few inches on every side of her to spare.

I will let it play out for most of today, and if nothing goes through, I will purchase a larger bin.

 

[thealissa]

My female laid her first clutch of infertiles all on the floor of the cage and was fine. If you notice anymore weird behavior you can take her to the vet to have her looks at and she if she is eggbound or not. Just cover up her cage so she doesn't see you. Its not good for them to see you because if she was digging and saw you she would stop and make another hole and possibly get stressed and get eggbound. To answer your question yes she probably will la more eggs. I agree the bin may need to be deeper

Should I not mist her while she is in her laying process? I do not have an automatic mister.

Honestly, I don't think she can see me. Her eyes are closed, and still sunken in.

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

Should I not mist her while she is in her laying process? I do not have an automatic mister.

Honestly, I don't think she can see me. Her eyes are closed, and still sunken in.

dont mist her while she is in the bin and make sure she doesnt see you

 

[thealissa]

Update

I just took her (Aurora) to the vet. She was given two injections while there: one for dehydration (not sure on the name of the fluid), and one shot of calcium gluconate at 10%. The vet also gave me a two weeks supply of calcium gluconate at 23% that I give orally twice a day.

She weighed in at 88 grams. I also asked a few other questions while there... Aurora has a 10qt. laying bin, and I've heard from many that it isn't big enough. My vet said that it is plenty big, and that I could simply use a milk jug with the top cut off. He said that's what he did when he used to breed them back in the 90's. Anyway, I thought many could find that useful. If your cham won't take the small size though, I'm not suggesting to force it.

I also asked about giving her something to induce the egg laying and he said he could do that, but that she needed hydration and nutrition before she could handle it. I was told that if she doesn't lay eggs within the next 2-3 days, to come back. Also, he told me to check her laying bin every 3-4 hours.

Just to give everyone an idea, I'll let you know what everything cost me:

-Initial Exam - $55
-1 injection of subcutaneous (under the skin) fluids - $22
-1 Calcium Gluconate 23% - $15
-1 Calcium Gluconate Injection 10% - $25
Total - $117

I was offered x-rays as well, but those run at about $150. He also said he could spay her, which runs at a whopping $500.

 

[kinyonga]

One reason I recommend leaving a container in the cage at all times once a female is sexually mature is to avoid eggbinding. I hope your female can lay the eggs but I'm concerned that she is close to eggbinding if not already there.

I have my fingers crossed for her.

 

[thealissa]

One reason I recommend leaving a container in the cage at all times once a female is sexually mature is to avoid eggbinding. I hope your female can lay the eggs but I'm concerned that she is close to eggbinding if not already there.

I have my fingers crossed for her.

Thank you. My vet called this morning to ask how things were going, but I'm afraid she still hasn't laid. He told me to wait until tomorrow or Thursday. It's so hard having to just let her be and hope that she pulls through. He said that we will give her something to induce it if she hasn't laid by then. I'm still giving her calcium gluconate twice daily by mouth.

I thought for sure she wouldn't produce eggs in the first place... I keep temps low (low 80's) and only feed every other day or two. Plus, I have an older female who has never laid. This just goes to show that you can't make any assumptions between chameleons.

 

[kinyonga]

I hope it won't be too late when you take her.

 

[thealissa]

I just gave Aurora her meds, and noticed that her saliva is a little sticky/slimy/stringy. I will be letting the vet know tomorrow morning when I call, but does anyone recognize this as a sign of something? Just for extra infor, during her exam on Monday, the vet inspected her mouth and said she was free of infection there.

 

[thealissa]

Aurora still hasn't laid her eggs and she now has a little bit of diarrhea, so I called the vet back today. He told me I need x-rays and a fecal done, which I'm okay with. But now, since today is there "emergencies only" day, an exam is $120 instead of $55. That's on top of what it's going to cost for meds and x-rays.

I don't know what to do. I don't know if I can wait until tomorrow. Should I? Should I try to see an alternate vet?

 

[thealissa]

Another Update

Took her back to the vet today... She got x-rays done, and got induced with oxytocin. As I was paying ($304!!) she hissed and laid over on her side. I asked if that was normal and the tech went back and got the vet. He picked her up as she was panting and told me he was going to keep her overnight and that he'd call and update me. No update yet... I hope she laid her eggies okay. I'm nervous and worried. He told me there's no guarantees, which I understand, but it's hard not to be so concerned.

 

[Syn]

Alissa, what vet are you going to, Dr. Funk? Just curious for my own info.

I hope your veiled comes out alright... keep your chin up!

 

[thealissa]

Alissa, what vet are you going to, Dr. Funk? Just curious for my own info.

I hope your veiled comes out alright... keep your chin up!

No, Dr. Funk is a bit far for me, and the most expensive out of everyone within 50 miles of me. I'm going to Dr. Driggers at Avian & Exotic Animal Clinic of AZ in Gilbert. He's very nice, and well educated. He also use to breed chameleons, and has awesome reviews online from others. I am satisfied with him so far.

Everything is just really expensive... I mean, the x-rays took them 5 minutes but cost me $150... I know the equipment is expensive and they need to cover costs for things like insurance and paying employees, but geeze. While he took me back to see the x-rays, he had an owl back there. I asked what happened, and he said the owl fractured its wing and he had to re-fracture it to fix it. The owl is wild, so he's just helping it out of the goodness of his heart, which made me feel a little better about paying out the butt for him.

 

[Syn]

Well, that's good. I will look into Dr. Driggers. Can you ask him if he is familiar with Rhacodactylus for me? (Cresties). I actually have a rescue that I just got yesterday that has some pretty bad MBD problems, but I have to agree, Dr. Funk is quite expensive.. but worth it if he is the only one who can successfully treat most herps. Sorry for the derail. :x

 

[thealissa]

I'm sure he does, but I will still ask. I saw someone on Monday with a giant iguana in there, and today someone had a bunny. He also has pics of him on the walls with monkeys and such, lol. Quite a wide variety of animals to know about.

 

[Syn]

Thanks so much! Again, hoping for the best..

 

[kinyonga]

Is this the same vet?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RITDDqfBM-k

 

[jessica]

Is this the same vet?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RITDDqfBM-k

Sorry to jump in but that video was AWSOME!