Want to know how much to feed your animal?

Ever think. How many feeders should he/she be eating to maintain weight? or My animal is a little over weight and i want to put he/she on a diet but dont know where to start? or maybe your animal is skinny and you want to put a little meat on them bones...The info below is a base intake on a young average adult. Age, temperature, activity, individual metabolic rate, etc. will play a roll in your final calculations.

I recently came across some pretty interesting info on daily calorie intake per weight of animal. This is a reference point to base how much you should feed your animal.

You will need a gram scale to start. You will need to weigh your chameleon. Then weigh your feeders.

This formula is based off of 5.6 calories per 1000g/. (5.6 x per kilogram)

Now you take the formulation below that is based off of 100 grams. Im in the process of finding out if the analysis given was done by a independent study or if they was taken off of a website and calculated. Either way great info. I am also collecting weights of insects and will post. Weight is going to vary. So it will be best to weigh on your personal stock to be a little more precise.

Fat contains 9 kcal per gram
Protein contains 4 kcal per gram
Carbohydrates contain 4 kcal per gram
Organic acids contain 3 kcal per gram
Fiber contains 2 kcal per gram

Crickets; 12.9% protein (51.6 kcal), 5.5% fat (49.5 kcal), 5.1% carbohydrates (20.4 kcal), 3.2% fiber (6.4 kcal), total kilocalories (127.9 kcal/100g)
Mealworms; 19% protein (76.0 kcal), 14% fat (126 kcal), 4% carbohydrates (16 kcal), 2% fiber (4 kcal), total kilocalories (222 kcal/100g)
Superworm; 18.92% protein (75.68 kcal), 15.07% fat (135.63 kcal), 5.81% carbohydrates (23.24 kcal), 2.2% fiber (4.4 kcal), total kilocalories (238.95 kcal/100g)
Wax worm; 15.4% protein (61.6 kcal), 20.12% fat (181.08 kcal), 2.54% carbohydrates (10.16 kcal), 1.6% fiber (3.2 kcal), total kilocalories (256.04 kcal/100g)
Fly larva; 15.32% protein (61.28 kcal), 5.96% fat (53.64 kcal), 8.46% carbohydrates (33.84 kcal), 2.7% fiber (5.4 kcal), total kilocalories (154.16 kcal/100g)
Dubia; 35.6% protein (142.4 kcal), 6.75% fat (60.75 kcal), ??.?% carbohydrates (??.? kcal), 3.25% fiber (6.5 kcal), total kilocalories (>209.65 kcal/100g)
Turkestan; 36.5% (146.0 kcal), 5.31% fat (47.79 kcal), ??.?% carbohydrates (??.? kcal), 2.19% fiber (4.38 kcal), total kilocalories (>198.17 kcal/100g)
Portentosa; 26.7% (106.8 kcal), 5.05% fat (45.45 kcal), ??.?% carbohydrates (??.? kcal), 5.62% fiber (11.24 kcal), total kilocalories (>163.49 kcal/100g)

So basically if you had a 150 gram chameleon and fed him dubia that weighed 1 gram a piece. You would need to feed approx 3-4 x 1 gram dubia to maintain weight. Note: Carbs have not been factored in on dubia.

Credit to: Maurice Pudlo

NOW! We need some information like this containing base amounts of Ca, VitD, Vita, etc daily intake per 1000kg and we could have this down to an art!

Althought, admittedly, I do not understand the science behind this (maybe after another read through) I do find this very interesting.

There is another factor to try and work out, however, gutloading. Surely by gutloading your insects you will increase their base amount of vitamins & minerals, but then this is dependant on how much your insects eat, what exactly you gutload with etc.

Is it possible that there are too many factors to make it a "science"?

blackened said:

Althought, admittedly, I do not understand the science behind this (maybe after another read through) I do find this very interesting.

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I'm having trouble with calculating it too. I'm not sure if that's my poor english or I have a problem with math

blackened said:

Althought, admittedly, I do not understand the science behind this (maybe after another read through) I do find this very interesting.

There is another factor to try and work out, however, gutloading. Surely by gutloading your insects you will increase their base amount of vitamins & minerals, but then this is dependant on how much your insects eat, what exactly you gutload with etc.

Is it possible that there are too many factors to make it a "science"?

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Correct diets will hender some analysis BUT as far as vitamins are concerned. Given a proformed version of any vitamin. The body will only absorb what it can use and anything past that will become waste. The listed analysis im sure is based on a healthy insect on a basic species diet.

Never too many factors in my mind..Taking in consideration all of the factors, researching and practicing solutions will only fine tune your care given to an animal.. This can only result in a positive way

This formula is only to give us a good base to start with. Working with your animal by weighing it frequently (like every week) and charting the amount of feeders and frequency will help you figure out the sweet spot for your animal. No guessing involved, just results given by a method of care.

mat3o said:

I'm having trouble with calculating it too. I'm not sure if that's my poor english or I have a problem with math

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Dont be discouraged. I will try to help you here.

1. Weigh your animal. (example 150 grams)
2. Convert animals weight grams to kilograms (example is .15)
3. Take 5.6 x animals weight in kilograms (example = .84)
4. Find which feeder you are wanting to feed in the chart and look at the total calorie per 100 grams.
5. To figure out the assumed calorie intake of your feeder. Would be to weigh it. You then take the weight and convert it to kilograms (example 1 gram dubia = .001). Take the total calorie per 100 gram total. (example dubia = >209.65 kcal/100g).
6. Take the total calorie x the weight. (example 209.65 x .001 = .209)
7. You take the total you got from (#3 = .84) and divide it by amount of calorie based on weight. (example .84 / .209 = 4.01). So theory on a normal health active reptile weighing 150 grams would need to eat 4 x 1 gram dubia to maintain weight.


Hope this helped you

Now I get it! Thanks The only problem is to weight the feeders. But I guess if you weight couple of them you can estimate, more or less, how much they weight on average.

Can we sticky this? It looks like pretty vital information for people who are able to think instead of just doing what they are told.

This is great information. I was a little lost on the math here myself glad you clarified.

We really need to make a feeder calculator using this where you enter the feeder type and weight and the weight of your animal. You would likely want to get some sort of BMI calculation to determine if you should be over or under feeding as well to achieve optimal weight.

Granted with all the variable this will still be similar to Voodoo but at least it is a start!

I can do a calculator in MS Excel but am not good with web based ones. There are a few people here who I know could do it though lets see if they step up!

You may also find this blog entry useful, as it indicates the amount of calories required for weight maintenance:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...s-day-required-maintain-chameleon-weight.html

and Calories found in some common prey items, from the Zoo Biology paper as reported by Susan Donoghue, VMD, DACVN
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02SepDonoghue.html

Trillian said:

Can we sticky this? It looks like pretty vital information for people who are able to think instead of just doing what they are told.

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Good idea!

DanSB said:

This is great information. I was a little lost on the math here myself glad you clarified.

We really need to make a feeder calculator using this where you enter the feeder type and weight and the weight of your animal. You would likely want to get some sort of BMI calculation to determine if you should be over or under feeding as well to achieve optimal weight.

Granted with all the variable this will still be similar to Voodoo but at least it is a start!

I can do a calculator in MS Excel but am not good with web based ones. There are a few people here who I know could do it though lets see if they step up!

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BRILLIANT! Daily feeder calculator!

sandrachameleon said:

You may also find this blog entry useful, as it indicates the amount of calories required for weight maintenance:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...s-day-required-maintain-chameleon-weight.html

and Calories found in some common prey items, from the Zoo Biology paper as reported by Susan Donoghue, VMD, DACVN
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02SepDonoghue.html

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Awesome info sandra. Thank you!

If I get any time I can put together a database in Excel (which will export to SQL and can be used by an applet online if I'm not mistaken) then you can enter the weight per feeder to get approximate nutritional data which would use the calculations to determine how much is required for your Chameleon.

I think with a little work we could come up with an ideal snout to vent / weight for several species which would mean that we could feed to length rather than weight to maintain an ideal weight. This would require quite a bit of trial and error and would of course be species / gender specific for the most part. I think there is enough expertise on this board that we could quantify feeding requirements and allow new keepers a better chance to easily maintain their chameleons at a healthy weight. There are a lot of fat chameleons on these boards!

We would also need to map vitamin and gutloading requirements by species which would be a little more complicated but vital for any daily feeder calculator.

Now the trick will be to find a web developer who is benevolent enough to do this for free as well as getting enough of together who are willing to experiment and enter data to gather a good species database.

I work with huge databases and statistical data that amounts to voodoo for my day job so I know how a project like this should look and am more than willing to assist should there be enough interest and support from more experienced keepers like you and Sandra who really know reptile nutrition!

DanSB said:

If I get any time I can put together a database in Excel (which will export to SQL and can be used by an applet online if I'm not mistaken) then you can enter the weight per feeder to get approximate nutritional data which would use the calculations to determine how much is required for your Chameleon.

I think with a little work we could come up with an ideal snout to vent / weight for several species which would mean that we could feed to length rather than weight to maintain an ideal weight. This would require quite a bit of trial and error and would of course be species / gender specific for the most part. I think there is enough expertise on this board that we could quantify feeding requirements and allow new keepers a better chance to easily maintain their chameleons at a healthy weight. There are a lot of fat chameleons on these boards!

We would also need to map vitamin and gutloading requirements by species which would be a little more complicated but vital for any daily feeder calculator.

Now the trick will be to find a web developer who is benevolent enough to do this for free as well as getting enough of together who are willing to experiment and enter data to gather a good species database.

I work with huge databases and statistical data that amounts to voodoo for my day job so I know how a project like this should look and am more than willing to assist should there be enough interest and support from more experienced keepers like you and Sandra who really know reptile nutrition!

Click to expand...

That's great idea! I love stuff like that I would love to help with experimenting with a database, but I'm no good with websites.

Very informative! The information is much appreciated by me and my chams

DanSB said:

If I get any time I can put together a database in Excel (which will export to SQL and can be used by an applet online if I'm not mistaken) then you can enter the weight per feeder to get approximate nutritional data which would use the calculations to determine how much is required for your Chameleon.

I think with a little work we could come up with an ideal snout to vent / weight for several species which would mean that we could feed to length rather than weight to maintain an ideal weight. This would require quite a bit of trial and error and would of course be species / gender specific for the most part. I think there is enough expertise on this board that we could quantify feeding requirements and allow new keepers a better chance to easily maintain their chameleons at a healthy weight. There are a lot of fat chameleons on these boards!

We would also need to map vitamin and gutloading requirements by species which would be a little more complicated but vital for any daily feeder calculator.

Now the trick will be to find a web developer who is benevolent enough to do this for free as well as getting enough of together who are willing to experiment and enter data to gather a good species database.

I work with huge databases and statistical data that amounts to voodoo for my day job so I know how a project like this should look and am more than willing to assist should there be enough interest and support from more experienced keepers like you and Sandra who really know reptile nutrition!

Click to expand...

We could definitely get something going here.

mat3o said:

That's great idea! I love stuff like that I would love to help with experimenting with a database, but I'm no good with websites.

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Awesome!

Playdo said:

Very informative! The information is much appreciated by me and my chams

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Im glad we could help.

Wow!!! A feeder calculator. What an incredible idea!!

I have experience with websites and databases. We should maybe create a project team? I will happily help in any way I can!

Thank you all senior members for your input, and especially ataraxia for getting our cogs turning.

ataraxia said:

This formula is based off of 5.6 calories per 1000g/. (5.6 x per kilogram)

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Where do you have this from? Is there any study done about the real food requirement of chameleons or is it just a thought? I don't believe in values like those as long as I do not know where they come from exactly (studies on this topic? are those -if ever done - reliable?). Do you know any paper references? Would be very interesting to read.

Alexl said:

Where do you have this from? Is there any study done about the real food requirement of chameleons or is it just a thought? I don't believe in values like those as long as I do not know where they come from exactly (studies on this topic? are those -if ever done - reliable?). Do you know any paper references? Would be very interesting to read.

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I understand your skepticism. You wont find a specific formula on a chameleon intake that will be used in every situation and animal. Way to many factors play a part in an animals intake to just put a number in and expect results. The purpose of this is to give you a "base reference" point to figure out your own individual animals intake. Weighing your animal and monitoring its intake will in the end result in better health.

== Things like age, assumed visual health, temperatures, species, activity monitoring (how often and amounts of time), weights, feeder quantity, types of feeders at each feeding, age or length of feeders used, SvL lengths, gut load ingredients, hydration, supplements used and frequency play a part

ataraxia said:

I understand your skepticism. You wont find a specific formulation on a chameleon intake that will be used in every situation and animal. Way to many factors play a part in an animals intake to just put a number in and expect results. The purpose of this is to give you a "base reference" point to figure out your own individual animals intake. Weighing your animal and monitoring its intake will in the end result in better health.

== Things like age, assumed visual health, temperatures, species, activity monitoring (how often and amounts of time), weights, feeder quantity, types of feeders at each feeding, age or length of feeders used, SvL lengths, gut load ingredients, hydration, supplements used and frequency play a part

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I agree, I see something like this as a baseline from which you would be able to do further experimentation by animal and regular weighing could very often allow for early detection of health problems.

Imagine if you are feeding regularly and know that an adult in good health should be eating X to maintain his current weight but you are noticing a weight increase. You would know you aren't technically overfeeding so then could begin to look for causes. Maybe your thermometer is broken and he is being kept too cold? Maybe he is getting old and less active and it is time to reduce food intake to avoid edema? (Just examples that I'm not sure of the facts so don't use my examples for problem solving!)

Also any calculator could only give a recommendation based on the data we do have and if it can be kept up to date with new trends and actual data my guess is over time it will become more and more accurate especially for the more common species kept as accuracy will only come with good data per species, gender, and age.

One thing I have learned from all the biology classes I've taken is that unique situations are not as common as you would be led to believe. Healthy animals are going to have the same or very similar nutritional requirements across the board.

ataraxia said:

..... Weighing your animal and monitoring its intake will in the end result in better health.
== Things like age, assumed visual health, temperatures, species, activity monitoring (how often and amounts of time), weights, feeder quantity, types of feeders at each feeding, age or length of feeders used, SvL lengths, gut load ingredients, hydration, supplements used and frequency play a part

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agreed..............

ataraxia said:

The purpose of this is to give you a "base reference" point to figure out your own individual animals intake.

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Mmmh... so, we don't know what a chameleon definitely needs. We don't know how much kcal in which time fits, we even don't know this for other lizards to compare. Then in fact, this formula is just an approximation. And we don't know whether it's approximately perfect or totally wrong.

I really think this might contain a big risk to overfeed chameleons just by thinking "someone gave this formula and they said this amount of feeder's right...". We don't know enough about nutritional intake of chameleons yet! It's a trial and trials may go wrong.

Im not sure if you are reading everything thoroughly. The only risk here is if you don't comprehend what has been stated already.

My grammar is poor so if you dont understand please ask questions and i will try my best to explain it better.