Calcium PLUS - how often?

Zen Reptiles

Zen Reptiles

Avid Member
I feel like I've been overdoing the Repashy Calcium PLUS.....(edit) here are my more in depth thoughts on the matter https://www.chameleonforums.com/calcium-plus-how-often-90525/index2.html#post846991

When it first came out here about a full year ago now, I was under the influence that it was 'Replaces all dustings' So I was using it very lightly at every dusting.

I was under the impression the vitamin and mineral doses were so low that there was no risk of buildup or hypervitaminosis. So I never really looked into it further cause ''everyone else was doing it.''

Right now, roughly 11 months later, I have 4 chameleons not doing so well and another one starting to show signs that she's not doing so well, and it looks like hypervitaminosis/kidney problems to me. It's summer and they should be THRIVING as they usually are.

I've been keeping all my panther chams the same for 5 or 6 years now, and before that I had a pair of veileds for (female) 8 years and (male) 9 years.... with great success aside from the occasional issues we all face, and these 4 (out of 15) are of different ages, locales, and sexes and the only thing I've changed is adding the Repashy over the last 11 months.

I have always been a strong proponent of 'less is more' until I jumped on the bandwagon with this Calcium Plus..........now I can't help but ask...Did I over do it?
 
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Ive heard a few experienced members talk about the vit A being high and to skip a couple days a week and just use plain calcium on those days.. or just dusting most feeders daily and not all.. just what I've read.
 
I should also add that for the first 6-7 months of using Repashy I was very impressed with how well my chams were doing, I had one that never did well but started to thrive, how much more they ate, their breeding and egglaying was flawless, everything went up up up and now seems to be crashing down that the vitamins have had a chance to buildup....as it takes many months for buildups to happen that's why they're called buildups.
 
Oh my! I'll def be paying attention to this thread! I dust everyday with it. My verru is strictly housed indoors and my new panther is housed indoors during the week and two days of outside time on the weekends. I don't dust with the cal + on the weekends.
 
Zen Reptiles said:
I should also add that for the first 6-7 months of using Repashy I was very impressed with how well my chams were doing, I had one that never did well but started to thrive, how much more they ate, their breeding and egglaying was flawless, everything went up up up and now seems to be crashing down that the vitamins have had a chance to buildup....as it takes many months for buildups to happen that's why they're called buildups.
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Did you mention if they get outdoor time? I think there is a trace amount of d3 and maybe combined with outdoor time could be an issue?
 
Zen Reptiles said:
I feel like I've been overdoing the Repashy Calcium PLUS

When it first came out here about a full year ago now, I was under the influence that it was 'Replaces all dustings' So I was using it very lightly at every dusting.

I was under the impression the vitamin and mineral doses were so low that there was no risk of buildup or hypervitaminosis. So I never really looked into it further cause ''everyone else was doing it.''

Right now, roughly 11 months later, I have 4 chameleons not doing so well and another one starting to show signs that she's not doing so well, and it looks like hypervitaminosis/kidney problems to me. It's summer and they should be THRIVING as they usually are.

I've been keeping all my panther chams the same for 5 or 6 years now, and before that I had a pair of veileds for (female) 8 years and (male) 9 years.... with great success aside from the occasional issues we all face, and these 4 (out of 15) are of different ages, locales, and sexes and the only thing I've changed is adding the Repashy over the last 11 months.

I have always been a strong proponent of 'less is more' until I jumped on the bandwagon with this Calcium Plus..........now I can't help but ask...Did I over do it?
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Hi there. My personal belief is that the Calcium Plus should be used less often.

I also introduced this product into my supplement schedule and it became my only supplement. Months down the line I also have a sick panther with a possible kidney disease. He certainly had a bad infection.

I am not blaming the product or saying it is bad. I jumped on the bandwagon blinded by the good reviews, and I failed to recognise that I could have actually been over-doing it with some of its ingredients. I was also using strong T5 lights along side it. I believe this to be the cause.

On a plus side, my Cham is on the road to recovery with help from medication. Whether there is permanent damage to his kidney we do not know yet as he is still recovering.

Good product - but use responsibly and try to understand what you are already providing for your animal before deciding on the amount of use of Calcium Plus.
 
maxttu said:
Did you mention if they get outdoor time? I think there is a trace amount of d3 and maybe combined with outdoor time could be an issue?
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my chams are outdoor everyday so I give them no artificial d3. I just do not see the need for it. I would think it could possible be an issue for sure if the chameleon is kept outdoors a good portion of the day.
 
carol5208 said:
my chams are outdoor everyday so I give them no artificial d3. I just do not see the need for it. I would think it could possible be an issue for sure if the chameleon is kept outdoors a good portion of the day.
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Being he's outside 100% of the time I'd probably go with plain calcium 3 days out of the week maybe 4. Depends on gutload feeder types chams age breed.. things ull have to find a balamce for.. but id definatly cut back on supp.
 
reptilover said:
Being he's outside 100% of the time I'd probably go with plain calcium 3 days out of the week maybe 4. Depends on gutload feeder types chams age breed.. things ull have to find a balamce for.. but id definatly cut back on supp.
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I feed mine every other day so that is about how many times a week they get calcium. I give them a multi every other week. I agree not everyone's situation is the same. Like I said if they are getting natural uvb all day long, why give them something artificial. That is just overkill....
 
kokom05lb said:
o_O and here I thought about getting some for Ringo...
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Its good stuff really is. u just need to look at the values on the supplements ur using now compare with the repashy calcium plus and find a good balance... It can be over done and under done. It's all ur variables that dictate the right amount.
 
Ah Ok I was just wondering because I have and almost FULL container of Rep-cal Calcium w/ D3 and almost FULL container of Repcal Herptivite still. I have Sticky Tongue Farms Calcuim without D3 which is almost empty. So... Since they were somewhat the same price on LLLreptiles.com I was thinking about getting Rephashy instead. I need to make a order today for Bug Burger so dont know what to get... lol
 
kokom05lb said:
Ah Ok I was just wondering because I have and almost FULL container of Rep-cal Calcium w/ D3 and almost FULL container of Repcal Herptivite still. I have Sticky Tongue Farms Calcuim without D3 which is almost empty. So... Since they were somewhat the same price on LLLreptiles.com I was thinking about getting Rephashy instead. I need to make a order today for Bug Burger so dont know what to get... lol
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I use the three you mentioned. I am sticking with what I have always used and not changing anything. Right now though my chams spend so much time outside I do not use the d3. I mean you can do what you want. It seems everyone is jumping on the Repashy bandwagon. I know Kammerflage was the one who started the whole thing and I highly respect the. They also sell the three supplements you use and have sold them with their chameleons before Repashy came out with the all in one. I feel like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, meaning if it has been working successfully for you, then why change?
 
My guys have not had much outdoor exposure this year as the weather has been either stormy or WAY too hot and we only have 2 months of cham weather a year until it's too cold. I use 5.0 and 10.0 bulbs, I have a UVB meter and I keep them all between 35-80 depending if they are male, female, baby, producing eggs, etc. They can all get right close to the UVB or sit several inches away, and anywhere in between so they can regulate their exposure as they feel fit.

I was surprised to see the D3 content is 20,000 IU/lb which is in the same range or higher than many other common calcium+d3 products already available. It is by no means a 'low dose'. The calcium MAXIMUM level is 20%

These products are specific in that they are for giving an adequate dose of d3 at intervals....some people do once a week, some once a month.

Minerall 1 d3 is about 8,800 IU/lb with a MINIMUM calcium level of 34%
Zoo Med d3 is about 28,000 IU/lb with a MINIMUM calcium level of 38%

Repashy falls right in the middle for d3 (though has much lower calcium levels in comparison)........where those two brands are gernally used once a week to once a month, how can Repashy be recommended every day?

Another issue I have is that vitamin A & E competes with calcium and D3 in the gut. This means the digestive system is going to choose one over the other, not all 3 at the same time. Though D3 helps calcium absorption, it means nothing if the vitamin A is blocking the d3 from being absorbed....and if the d3 is being absorbed on a daily basis + UVB lights then you are overdosing on D3 anyways. It's a no-win situation no matter how I look at it.

The Vitamin A content of Repashy is a whopping 200,000 IU/lb WOW! I feel that this is the fatal flaw of the product which I am now experiencing the repercussions of having used it for a year straight now.

I have the Vitamin A PLUS which I use for my dart frogs (hardly ever)....the VitA content is 2,000,000 IU (10x higher than the Calcium PLUS) and even says on the label ''prolonged over-supplementation can lead to toxicity (Hypervitaminosis A) and overdose or kill your specimens.''

So over a year of Calcium PLUS daily use, you are giving your chameleon a lot of vitamin A, which can build up........that is a lot of extra vitamin A on a daily basis which affects the organs and how other vital nutrients are absorbed.

And FYI the Repashy SUPERVITE has a vitamin A content of only 40,000 IU/lb which is where they'd be getting vitamin A from with regular 'vitamin dusting days'. Why does the Calcium PLUS have more than this and is recommended to be used daily?

Until Repashy, I was using calcium, d3, and vitamin A all separately without issues for over 15 years of keeping herps.

All in all what I should have done is stuck to my intuition instead of jumping on the damn bandwagon and used it as a vitamin supplement only once every 2 weeks and not every day. I was awestruck that I now had something convenient and didn't have to make schedules.....but I KNEW in my gut it was way too new of a product to just trust popular opinion.

That said, I will continue to use it as it is a great product...I will just use it more wisely and not follow the directions.
 
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Zen Reptiles said:
That said, I will continue to use it as it is a great product...I will just use it more wisely and not follow the directions.
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I love the way you worded this :D
Interesting thread, I am still thinking about trying the Calcium Plus.
 
I decided from the start that, given how successfull I'd been without this most recently touted all in one product, there was no need to go overboard with it. After reading this thread, Im glad I went with that instinct. I use it 3-4 times a month (and I think its ok that way). thanks for sharing your experience Brock
 
Thanks for starting this thread. I will for sure be following it. I Have two Jacksons and only have been using the Repashy Calcium Plus once a week and then just plain calcium dustings about 4 days a week. I got this schedule from Hoj and it seems to work really great. I for sure will not be using the repashy more than once a week.
 
Zen Reptiles said:
The Vitamin A content of Repashy is a whopping 200,000 IU/lb WOW! I feel that this is the fatal flaw of the product which I am now experiencing the repercussions of having used it for a year straight now.


I can't speak specifically about panthers, but with montanes at least, possibly chameleons in general, I feel that the "fatal flaw" of reptile supplements is more often an overdose of D3, especially when used every day. I say this simply due to well respected vets reporting that they way more often encounter cases of hypovitamintosis A than they do hypervitamintosis A. If keepers can provide regular exposure to UVB, either via UVB lamps or sunshine, allowing their chameleons to manufacture their own D3 as needed, the only reason I see to give supplemental D3 is to make up for any inadequacies in a particular lamp's output (as measured by a UVB meter). If the lamp is inadequate though, why not just replace it with one that more closely gives off the amount of UVB the chameleons would receive in their natural habitats? I think that approach is much safer than using a D3 supplement. Since it is not known whether chameleons can convert beta carotene at all to useable preformed vitamin A, let alone in adequate amounts, that is one supplement that I believe should definitely be given to our animals, not only for their own benefit but for the benefit of any offspring produced by them. What is not known, however, is how much preformed vitamin A is needed and in what amounts for each chameleon species. So, yes, I definitely believe it's possible to overdose on preformed vitamin A, especially if used everyday. At the same time, however, I think problems arise more often from an overdose of D3, especially if used at every feeding. My preferance is to let my chameleons manufacture all of their D3 through UVB exposure (no D3 supplement at all), while at the same time, supplement them with preformed vitamin A once or twice a month, depending on the dosage. I'm still trying to figure out what the "best" monthly dosage of preformed vitamin A is for quads for optimal growth and reproduction, but I'm taking it slow. I feel it's better to use caution, starting out with low monthly dosages, then maybe increase the dosage if I feel it's needed or helpful. For each species, of course, the dosages will be different depending on their metabolism, age, sex, etc.. Much more study obviously remains to be done.

Perry
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I agree Perry there is way too much unnecessary D3 in this supplement (and others) to be recommended being used every day. My concern is that when you give any living creature a certain combination of vitamins, the receptors in the gut that absorb them will choose one over the other, creating imbalances and irregularities in what the body really needs.

Rep Cal is the oddity of the D3 supplement category at 400,000 IU/kg (over 1,000,000 IU/lb), I don't think any chams should be getting that stuff except for therapeutic reasons.

Over the long term, I think an all-in-one supplement has caused my chams to burn twice as bright for half as long....
 
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