2 Vets can’t help me and My Cham won’t eat or open eyes

[Lennoncham]

“If he does start to eat again I will not supplement and will ask you all before I do (assuming he does wake up). “

By wake up you mean open his eyes?

How long has he not been eating? You may have said and I missed it. If he can’t see his food he can’t eat it. You can try getting him to open his mouth and place a cricket in between his teeth.

You gutload also could use some changing.

 

[hilizanne]

Never be afraid to ask questions on here. We are here to help each other learn. Sometimes people come off rude but just ignore us when we do.

You can use the repashy calcium plus lo-d with every feeding. The regular one has a lot of vit d3 and vit a in it.

Or you can do a 3 part system with a calcium without d3 every feeding except a multivitamin once every 2 weeks and a calcium with d3 once every 2 weeks on alternating weeks. So multi for one feeding one week then d3 for one feeding the next week.

Under supplementation of vit a can present as an eye issue but since it is so easy to overdose vit a it should only be given once a month.

This is where it gets tricky because over supplementing of vitamins can also present as an eye issue.

When they have to much or to little vitamins or minerals it throws the entire system out of whack.

It usually presents as an eye issue first because that is one of the weakest points. Once people notice the eye issue they go vit a deficiency. And dehydration. Then they start giving to much vitamin a supplements and misting way to much risking vit a overdose and a respiratory infection. All the while the chameleons system is getting even more thrown out of whack from all the extra supplements he’s getting. The keeper keeps wondering why the eyes aren’t getting better and give more misting and more vit a until it is far to late and the chameleon get renal failure and dies.

If you do take him to the vet present this to them as an option. I had a similar issue with Cynthia my female panther when I first got her and I had a very knowledgeable chameleon vet tell me all the things that it could be except for this and it turned of to be a supplement issues. I stopped all supplements and a week and a half later both eyes were open and perfect. All after a month and a half of going to the vet and getting eye drops and fecal test and bacteria swabs.

This doesn’t mean that it is the same for your Cham just my experience.

That sounds right. If I have overdosed him there is no antidote I guess?

He is drinking a lot today. I have a problem with “less is more” in a lot of things I do.

 

[Lennoncham]

That sounds right. If I have overdosed him there is no antidote I guess?

He is drinking a lot today. I have a problem with “less is more” in a lot of things I do.

I think the only “antidote” is time and water to help flush it out.

If it was a d3 overdose I would say to give a dose of vit a right now then stop all supplements. Vit a can block the effects of d3.

But since the supplement you were using had high levels of both I would stop them all together.

 

[hilizanne]

“If he does start to eat again I will not supplement and will ask you all before I do (assuming he does wake up). “

By wake up you mean open his eyes?

How long has he not been eating? You may have said and I missed it. If he can’t see his food he can’t eat it. You can try getting him to open his mouth and place a cricket in between his teeth.

You gutload also could use some changing.

View attachment 240502

Yes I mean open his eyes and move around more. He just sits mostly and doesn’t go far, although today he has moved more while he has been outside. He still feels his way around on branches without opening his eyes. I have been misting him while he is outside every 3 hours and he drinks every time.

It has been 2 weeks. 3 weeks ago he ate 2 super worms with assistance.

Ok I can change that. I admit I have focused more on my frogs with the gutloading. I forgot to mention I also use bug burger once a week. I usually order 1000 crickets once a month or so.

 

[Lennoncham]

Yes I mean open his eyes and move around more. He just sits mostly and doesn’t go far, although today he has moved more while he has been outside. He still feels his way around on branches without opening his eyes. I have been misting him while he is outside every 3 hours and he drinks every time.

It has been 2 weeks. 3 weeks ago he ate 2 super worms with assistance.

Ok I can change that. I admit I have focused more on my frogs with the gutloading. I forgot to mention I also use bug burger once a week. I usually order 1000 crickets once a month or so.

Let me see if i can find some members that can help guide you through force feeding if you can’t get him to take anything. He needs some nutrients to help him. @Brodybreaux25, @JacksJill , @jannb can you guys look this over

 

[Lennoncham]

It has been 2 weeks. 3 weeks ago he ate 2 super worms with assistance.

2 weeks since he ate? Or had supplements? Or both I guess?

 

[JacksJill]

Some members recommend fasting and hydrating them for support while the excess fat soluble vitamins make their way out of their system. Figuring out what to feed is going to be a problem. The mixes like Carnivore Care are animal protein based and will contain vitamins A&D. You will need a bug based liquid. If you aren't squeamish then pulverizing / liquefying soft bodied worms might be your best choice. I wouldn't try to feed very much.

 

[hilizanne]

2 weeks since he ate? Or had supplements? Or both I guess?

Yes both

 

[JacksJill]

It is a good sign that he is still drinking. You might get a small horn or silk worm in the front of his mouth while he is drinking. Don't try to feed too much at once.

 

[hilizanne]

Some members recommend fasting and hydrating them for support while the excess fat soluble vitamins make their way out of their system. Figuring out what to feed is going to be a problem. The mixes like Carnivore Care are animal protein based and will contain vitamins A&D. You will need a bug based liquid. If you aren't squeamish then pulverizing / liquefying soft bodied worms might be your best choice. I wouldn't try to feed very much.

I have pulverized meal worms before and fed them to a sick leopard gecko who almost died from being egg bound. Not my favorite thing to do but it was necessary. She got better and is still living now it’s been 4 years. What worms should I use? I will have hornworms and those fatty white worms (blanking on the name) by tomorrow or Wednesday. Those would be better than superworms I guess? Since supers are not really that soft?

 

[JacksJill]

Those would be good mixed with a little water. Try a small horn first save the fatty foods for a later feeding. @Brodybreaux25 has a great picture of where to put the force feeding syringe so you don't get food in the airway.

 

[hilizanne]

It is a good sign that he is still drinking. You might get a small horn or silk worm in the front of his mouth while he is drinking. Don't try to feed too much at once.

Ok I can do that. I haven’t been able to find silks lately and order most of my feeders because it is cheaper and the local supply is very limited. I can’t even find Dubia locally. He usually loves hornworms and I will have those soon. 1-2 days. I will ask the local reptile people (we have a community Facebook group) to see if anyone can spare a few silkworms right away.

 

[Lennoncham]

Ok I can do that. I haven’t been able to find silks lately and order most of my feeders because it is cheaper and the local supply is very limited. I can’t even find Dubia locally. He usually loves hornworms and I will have those soon. 1-2 days. I will ask the local reptile people (we have a community Facebook group) to see if anyone can spare a few silkworms right away.

As jacksjill mentioned. If you try force feeding their airways are inside their mouth near the front so you have to use a soft tipped syringe and get it past the airways.

 

[hilizanne]

As jacksjill mentioned. If you try force feeding their airways are inside their mouth near the front so you have to use a soft tipped syringe and get it past the airways.

Are there good instructions or video for this? I can get whatever syringe I need. I have a long catheter that the vet gave me to try with my Leo but I didn’t have to do that. She bit the tip of the syringe and I just pushed it right into the side of her mouth and she swallowed it then. Cham anatomy may be different. Probably there is a thread on this somewhere on this forum. I will look.

 

[Lennoncham]

Are there good instructions or video for this? I can get whatever syringe I need. I have a long catheter that the vet gave me to try with my Leo but I didn’t have to do that. She bit the tip of the syringe and I just pushed it right into the side of her mouth and she swallowed it then. Cham anatomy may be different. Probably there is a thread on this somewhere on this forum. I will look.

Ya if you search force feeding im sure you will find it.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

 

[hilizanne]

View attachment 240536

Ok got it. I will have worms tomorrow but I won’t be home until late so he will be asleep. I will definitely do this on Thursday if I am unable to sneak a worm in while he is drinking. He is still getting sun and drinking a lot on his own. We are misting him frequently while he is outside in a screened enclosure with a large ficus. I added plants and a different humidity monitor to his indoor enclosure so hopefully I will get the humidity higher, although I’m not sure what range I want. 50% as the lowest with periods of high humidity 90-100% throughout the day?

 

[Lennoncham]

Ok got it. I will have worms tomorrow but I won’t be home until late so he will be asleep. I will definitely do this on Thursday if I am unable to sneak a worm in while he is drinking. He is still getting sun and drinking a lot on his own. We are misting him frequently while he is outside in a screened enclosure with a large ficus. I added plants and a different humidity monitor to his indoor enclosure so hopefully I will get the humidity higher, although I’m not sure what range I want. 50% as the lowest with periods of high humidity 90-100% throughout the day?

Humidity should be 50-70% throughout the day. And higher at night near 100%. Too high of humidity mixed with heat in the day can cause respiratory infections.

 

[Lennoncham]

Did you manage to get any food into him? And how are his eyes looking?

 

[hilizanne]

Did you manage to get any food into him? And how are his eyes looking?

He has spent a lot of time in the sun this week with heavy misting every 2 hours. He does move around on the plant to get into the sun. He seems to be trying to see a little because he moves his eyes around and it seems there may be a tiny slit he can see through. Occasionally he opens his eyes for a few seconds and they look normal, but maybe it hurts him? He closes them right away.

I took him to the other local vet today. His right lower lid was slightly swollen today. The vet gave him subcu fluids and Baytril. He said he sees “squinting” a lot with illnesses in chameleons. He did not identify the location of this possible infection but I am to give him Baytril once a day for 2 weeks. 0.1 cc
I gave him a dose when I got home and then I fed him 2 small hornworms. Just the whole worm not with a syringe. Once it was in his mouth he figured out what to do and moved it around and chewed it up and swallowed it like normal. After all of that I let him rest in his cage and he got right under the basking light. I have managed to get the humidity up to 60% and now I have a better idea which will require a lot of work but will allow me to get his plants up higher. I have ordered a large fogger that will arrive tomorrow and I will turn that on at night. Also some eye drops to irrigate his eyes. I will keep trying to give him a worm or two every day and put him outside some and hope something works in all of this. I read all of the instruction sheets on here and a few blog posts. And watching him while I mist him everyday I do not think his mister is staying on long enough to stimulate him to drink, so I will alter that hopefully tomorrow when I work on his cage. I have been hand spraying his cage and plants a lot (I added 3 more plants on Tuesday).