6 Mo. Female Veiled Chameleon Sick? Any tips or advice would be helpful.

[GoodKarma19]

The shower method outlined in my previous post is the safest way to get water into her with no risks of aspiration. I'd advise against putting water directly into her mouth unless directed by a veterinarian. Keep her dripper running and mist her cage whenever it fully dries. Generally speaking, 2mins of misting / 4 hours is more than sufficient to trigger drinking responses.

As per the image I posted, please aim toward the back of the throat whenever giving liquids of any kind. And again, I wouldn't syringe water unless directed - it's all too easy to cause aspiration if you flood her mouth too quickly/she isn't swallowing. Too much can go wrong for too little gain when there are easier, safer, and less stressful modes of hydration!

I'd definitely contact your vet again in the morning and get some syringe feeding formula from them. Oxbox Carnivore Care and Emeraid IC Carnivore are both very good and widely used for debilitated insectivorous reptiles. It's extremely important that you hydrate her first, though! Feeding a dehydrated, emaciated animal will frequently do more harm than good and may lead to regurgitation and further decline in health.

Keep us posted.

~Amanda

 

[vraspo]

The shower method outlined in my previous post is the safest way to get water into her with no risks of aspiration. I'd advise against putting water directly into her mouth unless directed by a veterinarian. Keep her dripper running and mist her cage whenever it fully dries. Generally speaking, 2mins of misting / 4 hours is more than sufficient to trigger drinking responses.

As per the image I posted, please aim toward the back of the throat whenever giving liquids of any kind. And again, I wouldn't syringe water unless directed - it's all too easy to cause aspiration if you flood her mouth too quickly/she isn't swallowing. Too much can go wrong for too little gain when there are easier, safer, and less stressful modes of hydration!

I'd definitely contact your vet again in the morning and get some syringe feeding formula from them. Oxbox Carnivore Care and Emeraid IC Carnivore are both very good and widely used for debilitated insectivorous reptiles. It's extremely important that you hydrate her first, though! Feeding a dehydrated, emaciated animal will frequently do more harm than good and may lead to regurgitation and further decline in health.

Keep us posted.

~Amanda

Hey Amanda,

I have been misting her cage constantly whenever it gets dry and refilling the dripper, I just don't see her drinking from it at all so that's why I originally had to syringe water with her. The vet advised me to use the misting and dripper and try to have her drink that way. I have to give her another drop of Baytril later, so where should I aim for the drop to go? I think he just opened her mouth and dropped it on the front part but wasn't too sure. I can try out the shower method sometime today to see if that will help her. This morning, I opened her mouth manually and dropped just one droplet of water at a time and let her swallow it so then I got an idea to stick a worm in there and miracously she chewed it up and swallowed it down. I gave her two more so shes ate three this morning and I was going to try to give her two more in an hour or so. She is currently out in the Florida sun basking on a branch and seems stronger today - moving more, better grip, eyes starting to open more. Should I be dusting the mealworms or has she had enough through the water and previous days? How many mealworms should I try to get in her since she hasn't eaten in a few days? It's just hard to tell if she got enough water or if she is using the misting or dripper as water sources but I feel like I have been given her an abundance of water the last few days.

 

[Beman]

Hey Amanda,

I have been misting her cage constantly whenever it gets dry and refilling the dripper, I just don't see her drinking from it at all so that's why I originally had to syringe water with her. The vet advised me to use the misting and dripper and try to have her drink that way. I have to give her another drop of Baytril later, so where should I aim for the drop to go? I think he just opened her mouth and dropped it on the front part but wasn't too sure. I can try out the shower method sometime today to see if that will help her. This morning, I opened her mouth manually and dropped just one droplet of water at a time and let her swallow it so then I got an idea to stick a worm in there and miracously she chewed it up and swallowed it down. I gave her two more so shes ate three this morning and I was going to try to give her two more in an hour or so. She is currently out in the Florida sun basking on a branch and seems stronger today - moving more, better grip, eyes starting to open more. Should I be dusting the mealworms or has she had enough through the water and previous days? How many mealworms should I try to get in her since she hasn't eaten in a few days? It's just hard to tell if she got enough water or if she is using the misting or dripper as water sources but I feel like I have been given her an abundance of water the last few days.

You gotta feed her something other then mealworms... No more mealworms even in a healthy cham they are not recommended. They are very high in chitin and low in nutritional value. So you risk impaction and her not being able to pass the mealworms. Try crickets or dubia properly gutloaded only. NO dusting at all right now. She is more then likely in a D3 overdose state. It can take weeks to a month to pull her out of that. The only dusting you would want to be doing if any is done at all is calcium without D3. @GoodKarma19 may correct me on this.
As she said only aim toward the back of the throat with any fluids or medications. Aiming anywhere else risks aspiration. Read through this link again on how to do this. http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

Make sure you are not leaving her outside too long.... I am not sure if this is even helpful in her current state and do not have the skill set to advice you either way. But my concern with this is the fact that she is already extremely dehydrated and then you are putting her outside where she can overheat. @GoodKarma19 Your thoughts on him taking her outside in 90 degree weather in her current state?

 

[JoXie411]

Honestly syringe feeding is something you might want to consider. My female wasn’t eating when I got her because she had an impacted bowel so me and the vet agree syringe feeding was the best option due to her being weak and to helpfully restimulate her gi track. After about a few days of this she got strong enough to eat on her own. This is the stuff I used if you want to consider syringe feeding

Carnivore Care (340 Gram) by Oxbow https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CEID7MY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_zfjUCbSXS807V

 

[GoodKarma19]

You gotta feed her something other then mealworms... No more mealworms even in a healthy cham they are not recommended. They are very high in chitin and low in nutritional value. So you risk impaction and her not being able to pass the mealworms. Try crickets or dubia properly gutloaded only. NO dusting at all right now. She is more then likely in a D3 overdose state. It can take weeks to a month to pull her out of that. The only dusting you would want to be doing if any is done at all is calcium without D3. @GoodKarma19 may correct me on this.
As she said only aim toward the back of the throat with any fluids or medications. Aiming anywhere else risks aspiration. Read through this link again on how to do this. http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

Make sure you are not leaving her outside too long.... I am not sure if this is even helpful in her current state and do not have the skill set to advice you either way. But my concern with this is the fact that she is already extremely dehydrated and then you are putting her outside where she can overheat. @GoodKarma19 Your thoughts on him taking her outside in 90 degree weather in her current state?

Personally I'd avoid bringing her outside for extended periods of time, particularly given those temperatures and her current state. There's a lot of handling going on right now to begin with, and she needs to recuperate. Focus on rehydrating her and then getting her fed. Becca has already given you excellent feeder suggestions, and I'll strongly second that you get something other than mealworms. It's encouraging that she's eating a bit on her own, though!

Since D3 overdose may be part of the problem, I'd probably say NO dusting at all for the next ~ two weeks, and then start up on plain calcium (no D3). Then you can go back to the suggested supplement schedule of plain calcium every feeding with calcium containing D3 once every two weeks and vitamins once every two weeks (alternating). Discuss this with your vet, though- I'm by no means an expert!

~Amanda

 

[vraspo]

You gotta feed her something other then mealworms... No more mealworms even in a healthy cham they are not recommended. They are very high in chitin and low in nutritional value. So you risk impaction and her not being able to pass the mealworms. Try crickets or dubia properly gutloaded only. NO dusting at all right now. She is more then likely in a D3 overdose state. It can take weeks to a month to pull her out of that. The only dusting you would want to be doing if any is done at all is calcium without D3. @GoodKarma19 may correct me on this.
As she said only aim toward the back of the throat with any fluids or medications. Aiming anywhere else risks aspiration. Read through this link again on how to do this. http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/05/how-to-give-different-medicines.html

Make sure you are not leaving her outside too long.... I am not sure if this is even helpful in her current state and do not have the skill set to advice you either way. But my concern with this is the fact that she is already extremely dehydrated and then you are putting her outside where she can overheat. @GoodKarma19 Your thoughts on him taking her outside in 90 degree weather in her current state?

I just tried to fit a cricket in her mouth the same way I did with the mealworms (they have been eating Flukers gut load) and she crunched it but kept spitting it out. Didnt get a full one down. She seems to keep going to sleep or something when feeding so I will have to lightly pet her to remind her she is eating.

Her cage was reading around 85 degrees in the sun, I moved her into the shaded area of the porch to keep it cool but just wanted her to be in the sun if she chooses to get the UVA rays.

 

[Beman]

I just tried to fit a cricket in her mouth the same way I did with the mealworms (they have been eating Flukers gut load) and she crunched it but kept spitting it out. Didnt get a full one down. She seems to keep going to sleep or something when feeding so I will have to lightly pet her to remind her she is eating.

Her cage was reading around 85 degrees in the sun, I moved her into the shaded area of the porch to keep it cool but just wanted her to be in the sun if she chooses to get the UVA rays.

Ok flukers is not a proper gutload. Hold off on trying to feed her more today. Like Amanda said she needs to be hydrated.

 

[GoodKarma19]

I just tried to fit a cricket in her mouth the same way I did with the mealworms (they have been eating Flukers gut load) and she crunched it but kept spitting it out. Didnt get a full one down. She seems to keep going to sleep or something when feeding so I will have to lightly pet her to remind her she is eating.

Her cage was reading around 85 degrees in the sun, I moved her into the shaded area of the porch to keep it cool but just wanted her to be in the sun if she chooses to get the UVA rays.

Unfortunately, Fluker's gutload is largely useless. It'll keep feeders alive, but doesn't give them what they need to make them nutritionally sound for your chameleon. Mealworms, like superworms, don't gutload well either due to their limited gut contents and quick metabolism. Repashy Bug Burger/Superload and Cricket Crack are much better formulated gutloads, and Beman has already posted the graphic with good veggies/fruit for feeding insects and the best feeders for your cham.

The fact that she's closing her eyes and "sleeping" while you're trying to feed her is a sign of extreme stress. I'd hold off on force feeding her insects and get some syringe feeding formula such as the aforementioned Oxbow Carnivore Care or Emeraid IC Carnivore... it's extremely nutritious and easily digested, just what she needs to put on weight and get on the road to recovery.

 

[vraspo]

Ok flukers is not a proper gutload. Hold off on trying to feed her more today. Like Amanda said she needs to be hydrated.

Unfortunately, Fluker's gutload is largely useless. It'll keep feeders alive, but doesn't give them what they need to make them nutritionally sound for your chameleon. Mealworms, like superworms, don't gutload well either due to their limited gut contents and quick metabolism. Repashy Bug Burger/Superload and Cricket Crack are much better formulated gutloads, and Beman has already posted the graphic with good veggies/fruit for feeding insects and the best feeders for your cham.

The fact that she's closing her eyes and "sleeping" while you're trying to feed her is a sign of extreme stress. I'd hold off on force feeding her insects and get some syringe feeding formula such as the aforementioned Oxbow Carnivore Care or Emeraid IC Carnivore... it's extremely nutritious and easily digested, just what she needs to put on weight and get on the road to recovery.

Hey, thanks for the information and the charts. So should I get some crickets and put a mixture of carrots, collard greens and other listed items in the cricket container and let them eat those for a day or two? I will ditch the Flukers and guessing the blackberry I put in there for the crickets doesn't help much either. I can pick up some of these veggies and more crickets if you guys think its a good idea. I also can get some wax worms as the are listed as special treats and seem easier to get her to eat. I will order the syringe food but it won't be here for a couple days while it comes on Amazon Prime.. Is she going to be alright going so long without eating?

I am also concerned because I am leaving town tomorrow until Monday and my girlfriend's roommate was going to watch her while we are away. I am not sure what I should instruct her to do while I am gone besides: putting her cage in a shaded area outside during the day and night (80-85 outside during day, 70-80 during the night) - or would it be better to be under her lamps? Giving her the daily drop of Baytril, Misting The Enclosure Several Times Per Day, and I could show her how to use the syringe and the guide but not sure if she can wait till Monday for me to get back and actually feed her with it. I really can't miss the trip but I feel terrible leaving her alone with someone else when she needs the most care right now and want to make sure I tell the person watching her everything they need to keep her stable the next couple of days.

I attempted to have her eat the cricket earlier she kept spitting out but then got lock jaw and had her eyes closed so I don't want to stress her out any further like you're saying and will just leave her alone, the vet just urged me to get her to eat as soon as possible so it just makes me worry.

I am ordering the Carnivore Care right now (https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Ca...re&qid=1555611393&s=gateway&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1 ), so I would just load this in a syringe mixed with water and then just shoot it into the back of her throat?

 

[emmrycham]

i'm about 2 and a half hours from where you are and would totally watch her over the weekend for you but not sure she could handle the stress of a long car ride

 

[Beman]

Hey, thanks for the information and the charts. So should I get some crickets and put a mixture of carrots, collard greens and other listed items in the cricket container and let them eat those for a day or two? I will ditch the Flukers and guessing the blackberry I put in there for the crickets doesn't help much either. I can pick up some of these veggies and more crickets if you guys think its a good idea. I also can get some wax worms as the are listed as special treats and seem easier to get her to eat. I will order the syringe food but it won't be here for a couple days while it comes on Amazon Prime.. Is she going to be alright going so long without eating?

I am also concerned because I am leaving town tomorrow until Monday and my girlfriend's roommate was going to watch her while we are away. I am not sure what I should instruct her to do while I am gone besides: putting her cage in a shaded area outside during the day and night (80-85 outside during day, 70-80 during the night) - or would it be better to be under her lamps? Giving her the daily drop of Baytril, Misting The Enclosure Several Times Per Day, and I could show her how to use the syringe and the guide but not sure if she can wait till Monday for me to get back and actually feed her with it. I really can't miss the trip but I feel terrible leaving her alone with someone else when she needs the most care right now and want to make sure I tell the person watching her everything they need to keep her stable the next couple of days.

I attempted to have her eat the cricket earlier she kept spitting out but then got lock jaw and had her eyes closed so I don't want to stress her out any further like you're saying and will just leave her alone, the vet just urged me to get her to eat as soon as possible so it just makes me worry.

I am ordering the Carnivore Care right now (https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Care-340-Gram-Oxbow/dp/B00CEID7MY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=oxbow+carnivore+care&qid=1555611393&s=gateway&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1 ), so I would just load this in a syringe mixed with water and then just shoot it into the back of her throat?

I think moving her cage in and outside is a bad idea. Let her rest inside under her lamps. So with the gutload you put in fresh everyday taking out the old everyday.
The wax worms are high in fat not very nutritious and do not gutload.
I do not see going the weekend without food being an issue. But going the weekend without proper hydration will be. The person that takes care of her has to know how to give fluids and meds. Has to make sure that she is getting misted. etc. She is very fragile right now.

Is she able to move around now? Get up in her heat and move around her cage?

 

[vraspo]

i'm about 2 and a half hours from where you are and would totally watch her over the weekend for you but not sure she could handle the stress of a long car ride

Where are you at? You might be on the way out but also agree with you. The car ride with the vet. was a lot for her even yesterday but want more than anything for her to be in good hands while i'm gone.

I think moving her cage in and outside is a bad idea. Let her rest inside under her lamps. So with the gutload you put in fresh everyday taking out the old everyday.
The wax worms are high in fat not very nutritious and do not gutload.
I do not see going the weekend without food being an issue. But going the weekend without proper hydration will be. The person that takes care of her has to know how to give fluids and meds. Has to make sure that she is getting misted. etc. She is very fragile right now.

Is she able to move around now? Get up in her heat and move around her cage?

I was just told by a chameleon owner that she leaves her Chameleons outside for a number of days when they are sick so they can pick up the natural sunlight (Florida sun) and have fresh air to breathe in. She seems to like it as well and moves between being in the sun to moving under the shade. My temperature radar gun was reading 100 in the sun so I put her and the cage in the shade and now its averaging 80-90. I mist when it gets higher than 86 or so. Ahh okay that makes sense, I will have to setup the gut load stage when I get back then to properly care for it. How many times a day should I tell her to mist and i'll obviously tell her to refill the dripper system whenever it's empty or not dripping. I called the vet and they said to just open her mouth and put syringe in the corner (on the side) and drop the Baytril there. I just want to know if I should just depend on the misting and dripper for her hydrating herself. I can send her this thread too so she can see the shower idea as well but she works on the weekend so she won't be home during her shift. She has been moving around when too hot or too cold just fine and after getting water she moves A LOT. She fluctuates between being active and wanting to climb all over to closing her eyes and just staying still while holding onto a lower branch. When I would give her water, she would start moving a lot after getting a drop or two.

 

[emmrycham]

Where are you at? You might be on the way out but also agree with you. The car ride with the vet. was a lot for her even yesterday but want more than anything for her to be in good hands while i'm gone.

i'm south of you, i believe. geographically challenged at times. im in WPB

 

[vraspo]

i'm south of you, i believe. geographically challenged at times. im in WPB

Yeah, unfortunately i'm heading North tomorrow so it wouldn't work out that way - plus it takes about four or so hours to get to WPB from here naturally. I appreciate you so much though, thanks for the offer. <3

 

[vraspo]

Here's a video update of what she's doing right now: https://streamable.com/t5kpa
Hanging in her branch and enjoying the breezy sunny day. I am going to give her some more Baytril in a half hour since it's about the same time yesterday when she last got some.

 

[emmrycham]

Yeah, unfortunately i'm heading North tomorrow so it wouldn't work out that way - plus it takes about four or so hours to get to WPB from here naturally. I appreciate you so much though, thanks for the offer. <3

oh wow, 4 hours? i must be a fast driver then unless i'm not remembering correctly. but no problem! always happy to help! hope she gets better and battles through this weekend !

 

[vraspo]

oh wow, 4 hours? i must be a fast driver then unless i'm not remembering correctly. but no problem! always happy to help! hope she gets better and battles through this weekend !

Yeah, I think you are driving a tid bit fast, haha. I used to come down there all the time for the infamous Gratitude Training so I remember the drives. I'm hoping that too and hate to leave her even for a few days while she's in this condition. Hoping for the absolute best and that my girlfriends roommate can do the best that she can to take care of her.

 

[emmrycham]

have you tried putting her in the shower yet?

 

[vraspo]

have you tried putting her in the shower yet?

I have not, I will do that after I get finished with my workload in about an hour. So I just take her while shes on her branch and lay it on the shower floor and let the shower head point at the side or bounce off the curtains to hit her? Should I supervise her the entire time or just leave her alone?

 

[emmrycham]

I have not, I will do that after I get finished with my workload in about an hour. So I just take her while shes on her branch and lay it on the shower floor and let the shower head point at the side or bounce off the curtains to hit her? Should I supervise her the entire time or just leave her alone?

im not an expert on this so take my advice lightly but yes, on her branch on the tub/shower floor. i tilted my shower head upwards all the way so the stream hit the wall that you would normally face if you were washing your hair (might be different per shower/tub but im sure the effect is the same) and you just put her branch slightly away from the stream, so that she's not getting pelted at all with the water. it should be a fine spray/mist that she feels. i tried it for the first time while holding my cham on my arm just because it was a new room/environment and i didnt want to freak her out. she loved it and then walked up towards my shoulder when she was done.

like i said, not an expert but this is what i did for my girly