A cricket only diet is acceptable

[DanSB]

I keep seeing where people are posting on here that a cricket only diet is not healthy / not good. I disagree. I think a cricket only diet dusted with Repashy calcium plus and a good gut load like Cricket Crack and fresh veggies is a perfectly acceptable diet for most captive bred chameleons.

I don't have empirical evidence but hell, neither do any of the people saying otherwise. I personally mix up my feeders for my frogs but not my chameleons and they are all healthy and growing well. I will likely start adding new feeders to the chameleon diet eventually but if I do it will be to solve a perceived health issue which I just don't see yet.

As a group it is not beneficial to pass along information as a fact when you really aren't sure. If I heard multiple large breeders say that when they do XYZ their chameleons develop issues then I start to pay attention. So which of you out there giving the advice that a cricket only diet is bad can point to some larger scale chameleon keeper / breeders who have found that when the only thing they change in their husbandry is mixing up feeder species they see an observable improvement in health?

I believe mixing up feeder species is preferable and allows for a better quality of life plus can possibly help cover nutritional deficiencies in poor gut loads. This is an OPINION which I can not back up with scientific evidence.

Anyone out there having success with a cricket only diet? And by success more than one generation breeding and living to a full life expectancy... I don't count myself as success. I switched to cricket only in early June...

 

[Remkon]

I believe mixing up feeder species is preferable and allows for a better quality of life plus can possibly help cover nutritional deficiencies in poor gut loads

I agree with this and don't see a reason to try the cricket only while there are a lot of other feeders available.

I think you could do cricket only if properly gutloaded and with sufficient variation in gutloads but your cham may end up being bored with em eventually.

I think I saw a video of a jacksonii breeder on youtube that only fed crickets by the way.
Still I wouldn't encourage such a diet.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

Agreed 110%. I've had my 8month old Cham on crx ever since he was a baby and when I got him from the petstore. I will also throw worms and veggies and fruits in his diet but he mostly eats crx. I don't see the problem with them? They seem like the correct feeder to me? Ik there are other main feeders like roaches but in cases like me where I am not aloud to have riches in the house crx are a great idea. My lil guy I growing great and fast as he should be. He is the healthiest chameleon I have ever had and is staying that way. He loves crx and I will most likely never change him off that diet. I absolutely hate it when people on the forums tell me that I shouldn't be feeding my chameleon crx, it makes me feel horrible

 

[DanSB]

I agree with this and don't see a reason to try the cricket only while there are a lot of other feeders available.

I think you could do cricket only if properly gutloaded and with sufficient variation in gutloads but your cham may end up being bored with em eventually.

I think I saw a video of a jacksonii breeder on youtube that only fed crickets by the way.
Still I wouldn't encourage such a diet.

There is a distinct difference between saying that crick only is bad and saying that one prefers to feed multiple feeder species. I really don't think Crickets only is bad and for the many who do feed only crickets I think it is important to focus on gut loading and supplementation rather than a blanket statement it is bad.

There are multiple very successful breeders who only feed crickets but I will not use them as examples unless I can cite it from a direct written statement which I can't find or only have what I have been told directly over the years.

The community here has a real problem confusing what has worked for others and what "seems" right with what has actually proven out to work well.

 

[jpowell86]

I don't believe there is an issue with feeding crickets as the main part of a chameleons diet. The issue is that they tend to get tired of them.

I have 43 chameleons(that doesn't include babies) and I can tell you, that when a chameleon is healthy and has the opportunity to be picky...they will be. I think most seasoned keepers encourage offering a mixed diet because we know that this can happen at any moment. There are some species that are especially finicky. So, when I encourage people to offer variety, it doesn't so much come from a place of nutritional concern or must do's, it is to save keepers from future headaches.

 

[DanSB]

I don't believe there is an issue with feeding crickets as the main part of a chameleons diet. The issue is that they tend to get tired of them.

I have 43 chameleons(that doesn't include babies) and I can tell you, that when a chameleon is healthy and has the opportunity to be picky...they will be. I think most seasoned keepers encourage offering a mixed diet because we know that this can happen at any moment. There are some species that are especially finicky. So, when I encourage people to offer variety, it doesn't so much come from a place of nutritional concern or must do's, it is to save keepers from future headaches.

Have you legitimately seen a chameleon starve to death because they refused crickets? I would expect that we see a tendency for chameleons to seem to do better with mixed feeders because keepers that take the time to procure and feed different feeder species are paying more attention and taking better care in general.

I have never had chameleon who wasn't sick in some other way go off feeding tot he point they lost any substantial weight and can't say that I have ever heard of it from a reliable source.

If a healthy chameleon doesn't want to eat for a week and is tempted to eat by introducing variety could that possibly be a bad thing?

 

[jpowell86]

Have you legitimately seen a chameleon starve to death because they refused crickets? I would expect that we see a tendency for chameleons to seem to do better with mixed feeders because keepers that take the time to procure and feed different feeder species are paying more attention and taking better care in general.

I have never had chameleon who wasn't sick in some other way go off feeding tot he point they lost any substantial weight and can't say that I have ever heard of it from a reliable source.

If a healthy chameleon doesn't want to eat for a week and is tempted to eat by introducing variety could that possibly be a bad thing?

I can completely respect that rebuttal.

I have never seen any chameleon starve itself without some sort of underlying medical condition. I have seen plenty of chameleons hunger strike....weeks even. Back when I was fresh to the hobby, I would play them out. Eventually I found it to be kind of stupid for me to do that to them. I am not a fan of the comparison game, but I think about like this. If I were to give you nothing but corndogs, you would eventually refuse them. It wouldn't matter if they satisfied your body's nutritional needs or not. You would eventually become sick of them..not out of choice, but physically sick I would imagine. Without variation, that can happen.

I guess my ultimate rebuttal would be this...show me a place in nature where chameleons only feed on one type of food source all year round. I have a gut feeling that the influx of seasonal insects and prey change benefit wild chameleons somehow. So, I would much rather emulate the amount of prey choice offered to them in their natural environment than trying to make an animal live off of one food item the rest of it's life.

 

[DanSB]

I can completely respect that rebuttal.

I have never seen any chameleon starve itself without some sort of underlying medical condition. I have seen plenty of chameleons hunger strike....weeks even. Back when I was fresh to the hobby, I would play them out. Eventually I found it to be kind of stupid for me to do that to them. I am not a fan of the comparison game, but I think about like this. If I were to give you nothing but corndogs, you would eventually refuse them. It wouldn't matter if they satisfied your body's nutritional needs or not. You would eventually become sick of them..not out of choice, but physically sick I would imagine. Without variation, that can happen.

I guess my ultimate rebuttal would be this...show me a place in nature where chameleons only feed on one type of food source all year round. I have a gut feeling that the influx of seasonal insects and prey change benefit wild chameleons somehow. So, I would much rather emulate the amount of prey choice offered to them in their natural environment than trying to make an animal live off of one food item the rest of it's life.

First off I also completely respect the well thought out answers and experience you're sharing and don't want to come off as actually arguing. I just want to make it clear that there is no definitive answer rather just different points of view and both have merit.

I feel like the "variety" we offer is a pale excuse for what they would eat in the wild. At any given time I have between 4 and 10 different feeder species at my house and all of them are cricket, roach, moth, fly, beetle, true worm, or moth. In the wild add vertebrates, dragonflies, katydids, grasshoppers, wasps, bees, termites, of literally hundreds of species. We can't even begin to get close which is why we gut load and dust very carefully. I have the opinion that since the variety most of us can offer is so terrible focusing on a single feeder that is properly supplemented and gut loaded is just as good.

I don't know if reptiles, and more specifically chameleons have the same biological drive that humans have to actually be physically turned off by eating the same thing every day. I would tend to attribute hunger strikes more to some other biological function. Maybe there is a trigger to not eat if the cham's body doesn't actually need food and they have not experienced any food shortages? After all it can be dangerous for a chameleon to eat too much as well as not enough...

I just really want to make the point that our collective knowledge seems to be more anecdotal than scientific and that it is not really responsible to tell someone that it is bad to feed only crickets with no real evidence it is indeed bad.

 

[jpowell86]

First off I also completely respect the well thought out answers and experience you're sharing and don't want to come off as actually arguing. I just want to make it clear that there is no definitive answer rather just different points of view and both have merit.

I feel like the "variety" we offer is a pale excuse for what they would eat in the wild. At any given time I have between 4 and 10 different feeder species at my house and all of them are cricket, roach, moth, fly, beetle, true worm, or moth. In the wild add vertebrates, dragonflies, katydids, grasshoppers, wasps, bees, termites, of literally hundreds of species. We can't even begin to get close which is why we gut load and dust very carefully. I have the opinion that since the variety most of us can offer is so terrible focusing on a single feeder that is properly supplemented and gut loaded is just as good.

I don't know if reptiles, and more specifically chameleons have the same biological drive that humans have to actually be physically turned off by eating the same thing every day. I would tend to attribute hunger strikes more to some other biological function. Maybe there is a trigger to not eat if the cham's body doesn't actually need food and they have not experienced any food shortages? After all it can be dangerous for a chameleon to eat too much as well as not enough...

I just really want to make the point that our collective knowledge seems to be more anecdotal than scientific and that it is not really responsible to tell someone that it is bad to feed only crickets with no real evidence it is indeed bad.

Arguing?? That is the furthest thing from my mind. These are the kind of threads I like. It's fun comparing ideology and experience. That is the whole reason for a Forum I would suppose. Most threads are about sleepy chameleons and PetSmart!!

Maybe there is a trigger to not eat if the cham's body doesn't actually need food and they have not experienced any food shortages?

I don't know if reptiles, and more specifically chameleons have the same biological drive that humans have to actually be physically turned off by eating the same thing every day

In saying this ^...if a chameleon doesn't possess the ability to be turned on/off by food like humans and instead are basing their willingness to eat on sheer physical and nutritional need, then when offered a different food item, they would not accept it.

I completely see where you are coming from. I truly do. I have never seen scientific literature covering the necessity for variation of diet in regards to chameleons. So, I could see why you think telling that to members under the idea that it is concrete could be hypocritical. But, conversely, I have never read any scientific literature stating that crickets alone are substantial. So we are at a crossroad. LOL!!

Your turn!!

 

[DanSB]

Arguing?? That is the furthest thing from my mind. These are the kind of threads I like. It's fun comparing ideology and experience. That is the whole reason for a Forum I would suppose. Most threads are about sleepy chameleons and PetSmart!!

That made me laugh! If we just made a sticky post for Big Box Pet stores and sleepy chams it would sadly cut down on half the threads.

Sadly I don't think I have much more to add. I do have 4 Senegal Chameleons and 2 Females that are pretty much the same size, age everything. They are still young enough to be in the same cage and pretty much behave and look the exact same I am tempted to feed one crickets only and the other a variety changing nothing except the feeder variety. I think with the females you can really see any differences especially when they start to breed.

I'm pretty sure Kevin Stanford told Bill he only feeds crickets but someone should double check here: http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-14-carpet-chameleons-with-kevin-stanford/ I can't remember his user name on here otherwise I'd just ask him, not sure he comes on anymore though...

I know Briana Kammer also said something surprising in one of her appearances but I think it was that they only supplement with Repashy Cal Plus and didn't mention feeder type... I'm getting old, I used to remember all this stuff much better!

 

[JaxyGirl]

I disagree with feeding just crickets. You are correct that there isn't any scientific evidence of chameleons dying from just eating crickets alone...that we know of. But, if you read past threads on CF there are pleanty of instances of chams dying for various reasons and many of those reasons can probably be attributed to malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies. Many of those chams were fed just one type of feeder mainly crickets and nothing else. Chams are supposed to have a lifespan of 5-8 years and It's sad how many chams don't make it past the first 1-1.5 years in age. That is probably due to vitamin deficiencies due to improper diet.

What would happen to a human body if someone ate steak everyday for the rest of their life. Sure it nutritious but eventually it will lead to a vitamin deficiency because the body will be missing vital nutrients that can be obtained by adding other types of foods. Chances are eating steak every day might lead to an early death from obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, kidney and liver disease to name a few. We could take a multivitamin or dust our steak everyday, but eventually we will get sick because it's just not humanly possible to live on just steak for the rest of our lives .

Chameleons are no different then humans in that respect. Eating just crickets probably for the rest of their life is going to lead to a shorter unhealthy lifespan. Chams need a variety of insects and foods not only because it keeps the menu interesting but also a variety of insects add different types of nutrients and vitamins to their diet.

Captive raised feeders aren't as nutritious as their wild counterparts. Nobody knows exactly what a wild cricket eats but whatever it is it contains more nutrition then what we feed our captive crickets. In my opinion no matter how much a cricket is gutloaded and dusted it will never have enough nutrients that is adequate enough to sustain a healthy chameleon for their allotted lifespan of 5-8 years. I personally think that their lifespan could be even longer. In the wild chams eat all kinds of insects, worms, slugs, snails, lizards, birds, rodents, fruits, vegetation etc. There is no way feeding just captive raised crickets can even compare to that type of variety.

I honestly am not not trying to argue the point and push my beliefs on anybody else but with the variety of feeders available on the market there is no excuse why anyone should be feeding their Cham just one type of feeder...but that's just me. People will do what they want and sadly we'll keep reading threads about sick chams. When it comes to the care of my chameleons, I feel it is up to me to try and provide the most nutritious diet possible and that is by providing as many different types of feeders and foods possible.

Here is a good article.
http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

 

[jpowell86]

Captive raised feeders aren't as nutritious as their wild counterparts. Nobody knows exactly what a wild cricket eats but whatever it is it contains more nutrition then what we feed our captive crickets. In my opinion no matter how much a cricket is gutloaded and dusted it will never have enough nutrients that is adequate enough to sustain a healthy chameleon for their allotted lifespan of 5-8 years. I personally think that their lifespan could be even longer. In the wild chams eat all kinds of insects, worms, slugs, snails, lizards, birds, rodents, fruits, vegetation etc. There is no way feeding just captive raised crickets can even compare to that type of variety.

I like this!!

I don't want to say never, but we certainly have not even come close to being able to simulate the nutritional needs for our chameleons via purchased feeders. I am a huge proponent of collecting wild insects and feeding those rather than buying my feeders. Don't get me wrong, I have roaches(Thank you @Extensionofgreen) and all that. I also breed my own grasshoppers. But the thing is, grasshoppers to me are not nutritional as they should be when I breed them myself. JaxyGirl is right, whatever they eat in the wild is the key. I try really hard to gather wild grasses from the areas where I collect my hoppers and so on....but I won't be able to simulate that.

I see people making posts about parasites in regards to wild feeders. That is why I run my own fecals. Rarely....rarely do I ever have to administer Panacur or anything of the like. A healthy chameleon will fight parasite loads naturally. One of my melleri eats the living crap out of anoles. I try my best to regulate this as I don't want the main staple of his diet to be lizards. I have treated him once with Panacur. That's the only time he needed it. I just personally feel that my chameleons exude a different kind of health because I offer them these items and not Petco crickets. And I don't mean my chameleons looking better than other keepers...I mean that I have seen a marked difference in their health when I started doing this.

 

[DanSB]

I disagree with feeding just crickets. You are correct that there isn't any scientific evidence of chameleons dying from just eating crickets alone...that we know of. But, if you read past threads on CF there are pleanty of instances of chams dying for various reasons and many of those reasons can probably be attributed to malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies. Many of those chams were fed just one type of feeder mainly crickets and nothing else. Chams are supposed to have a lifespan of 5-8 years and It's sad how many chams don't make it past the first 1-1.5 years in age. That is probably due to vitamin deficiencies due to improper diet.

What would happen to a human body if someone ate steak everyday for the rest of their life. Sure it nutritious but eventually it will lead to a vitamin deficiency because the body will be missing vital nutrients that can be obtained by adding other types of foods. Chances are eating steak every day might lead to an early death from obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, kidney and liver disease to name a few. We could take a multivitamin or dust our steak everyday, but eventually we will get sick because it's just not humanly possible to live on just steak for the rest of our lives .

Chameleons are no different then humans in that respect. Eating just crickets probably for the rest of their life is going to lead to a shorter unhealthy lifespan. Chams need a variety of insects and foods not only because it keeps the menu interesting but also a variety of insects add different types of nutrients and vitamins to their diet.

Captive raised feeders aren't as nutritious as their wild counterparts. Nobody knows exactly what a wild cricket eats but whatever it is it contains more nutrition then what we feed our captive crickets. In my opinion no matter how much a cricket is gutloaded and dusted it will never have enough nutrients that is adequate enough to sustain a healthy chameleon for their allotted lifespan of 5-8 years. I personally think that their lifespan could be even longer. In the wild chams eat all kinds of insects, worms, slugs, snails, lizards, birds, rodents, fruits, vegetation etc. There is no way feeding just captive raised crickets can even compare to that type of variety.

I honestly am not not trying to argue the point and push my beliefs on anybody else but with the variety of feeders available on the market there is no excuse why anyone should be feeding their Cham just one type of feeder...but that's just me. People will do what they want and sadly we'll keep reading threads about sick chams. When it comes to the care of my chameleons, I feel it is up to me to try and provide the most nutritious diet possible and that is by providing as many different types of feeders and foods possible.

Here is a good article.
http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

Chameleon dietary needs are far less complex than humans and I think we should immediately discard the comparisons. I just think it is silly to try to draw illustrative comparisons between an insectivore and a complex omnivore.

With that said I don't really doubt a varied diet is preferable. I've read most of the threads you probably have and the conclusion I draw is different.

I think most of the people feeding cricket only diets and having problems are doing it wrong. Let's face it, there are literally thousands of posts about sick chameleons from morons who think they gutload and are doing a great job because they threw some of those orange flukers cubes in with some crix. These same people don't mist, have no proper uvb etc and someone gets the bright idea that if they just fed some silkworms all would be right.

As far as wild feeders I expect it is a good idea and am sure there are many benefits done properly. I don't trust insects in my area to not be poisoned.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I like this!!

I don't want to say never, but we certainly have not even come close to being able to simulate the nutritional needs for our chameleons via purchased feeders. I am a huge proponent of collecting wild insects and feeding those rather than buying my feeders. Don't get me wrong, I have roaches(Thank you @Extensionofgreen) and all that. I also breed my own grasshoppers. But the thing is, grasshoppers to me are not nutritional as they should be when I breed them myself. JaxyGirl is right, whatever they eat in the wild is the key. I try really hard to gather wild grasses from the areas where I collect my hoppers and so on....but I won't be able to simulate that.

I see people making posts about parasites in regards to wild feeders. That is why I run my own fecals. Rarely....rarely do I ever have to administer Panacur or anything of the like. A healthy chameleon will fight parasite loads naturally. One of my melleri eats the living crap out of anoles. I try my best to regulate this as I don't want the main staple of his diet to be lizards. I have treated him once with Panacur. That's the only time he needed it. I just personally feel that my chameleons exude a different kind of health because I offer them these items and not Petco crickets. And I don't mean my chameleons looking better than other keepers...I mean that I have seen a marked difference in their health when I started doing this.

I absolutely 100% agree with everything you said. I do the same thing as you when it comes to feeding wild insects and I don't worry about parasites. I love summers in Maine because it means free food
Right now there are grasshoppers and Wild crickets outside my house so my chams have been eating a lot of those including horse flies, flying ants, moths, caterpillers, slugs, and any other yummy bugs I can find. Like yours my chams are super healthy. Feeding a variety of wild insects really makes a difference. My chams eyes are bright and alert and are strong and healthy with great vibrant color. They are totally spoiled this time of year because they eat well and spend a lot of time outside.

The tough time is the winter because all those good wild insects are gone. I have a Dubia colony and neither of my chams like them Lol! Right now they won't even look at a captive raised cricket. I breed Black Soldier Flies and they still like those Thank Goodness! During the winter I actually start giving my chams shrimp, fish and chicken to help supplement their diet. People think I'm crazy for doing this but it keeps my chams super healthy.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Chameleon dietary needs are far less complex than humans and I think we should immediately discard the comparisons. I just think it is silly to try to draw illustrative comparisons between an insectivore and a complex omnivore.

With that said I don't really doubt a varied diet is preferable. I've read most of the threads you probably have and the conclusion I draw is different.

I think most of the people feeding cricket only diets and having problems are doing it wrong. Let's face it, there are literally thousands of posts about sick chameleons from morons who think they gutload and are doing a great job because they threw some of those orange flukers cubes in with some crix. These same people don't mist, have no proper uvb etc and someone gets the bright idea that if they just fed some silkworms all would be right.

As far as wild feeders I expect it is a good idea and am sure there are many benefits done properly. I don't trust insects in my area to not be poisoned.

The human comparison was just an example. Any Animal (humans are animals) fed the exact same thing every single day will eventually become sick due to vitamin deficiencies. For example you can't feed a cat fish its whole life. People thought they could feed Turtles hamburger its whole life and that caused vitamin A deficiency which lead to weakening of the shell, blindness and death.
Chameleons are also susceptible to vitamin A deficiency and crickets have virtually no vitamin A so feeding only crickets to a Cham it's entire life is definitely not the answer no matter how well it's gutloaded.

I disagree with chameleon dietary needs not being complex. If that was the case they would all live to a ripe old age like our dogs and cats do. The diets of cats, dogs has been thoroughly researched to the point where you can open a can of food and it provides all the nutrients the animal needs.

Unfortunately that isn't the case with chameleons because their dietary needs haven't been completely perfected because it is complex. Nobody really knows what the perfect formula is for the care and husbandry of Chameleons. We're all still grasping at straws after all this time.
I recently set up a Saltwater Tank and I found more information out there about the diet and feeding of fish then on chams for the past 10 years I've been keeping them. It's really sad that there hasn't been much research or advancement when it comes to chameleon nutrition.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Crickets have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio, which dusting with supplements helps, but doesn't remedy completely, especially since you shouldn't dust at every feeding for adult or montane chameleons. Crickets also don't have the same types of harder, chitinous, exoskeletons that other insects have and these harder to digest components serve the purpose that insoluble fiber does in the human diets.
I actually disagree with the ideology that gutloads can't come close to encompassing the nutrition available to wild insects and therefore the chameleons that eat them. The fact is that a well constructed gutload can be be far richer in vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and other items than in a wild diet, which is limited by geological, geographical, weather, and other factors. Now feeder variety is another story. I think that most of the smaller chameleon species that occupy dense undergrowth, encounter hundreds of insects and other feeders, while canopy living chameleons likely eat fewer feeder species with any frequency, simply due to odds of chameleons and numerous insect species crossing paths. There are fewer insects encountered in canopies, than in dense undergrowth. Fewer feeders available still means they are getting feeders with bellies full of different wild foodstuffs (natural gutloads) and differing amounts of chitonous material, fat, calcium, amino acids, and so forth. Crickets alone are likely adequate, but certainly not ideal and adequate is used loosely as I don't believe an adequate diet or adequate enclosure is what we want; we should be striving for optimum.

 

[Virgil1972]

For the people talking about a varied diet is better for nutrition. Do we actually now the nutritional value of the insects we feed? Do we know what vitamins and minerals are in the different feeders?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

In several cases we know the fat, calcium, phosphorus, and meat to shell ratios.

 

[Virgil1972]

In several cases we know the fat, calcium, phosphorus, and meat to shell ratios.

I would like to know about other vitamins like A, B, and C though Z. Also what kind of other minerals do they contain? I think that stuff is important to know. It would make it a lot easier to give the chams a healthy diet.

 

[JaxyGirl]

For the people talking about a varied diet is better for nutrition. Do we actually now the nutritional value of the insects we feed? Do we know what vitamins and minerals are in the different feeders?

The information is hard to find but it is available online.
Nutrition value if Black Soldier Fly Larvae http://www.co-prot.com/nutritional-value.html
Crickets and other insects https://edibug.wordpress.com/nutritional-info/
http://bigcricketfarms.com/images/Big_Cricket_Farms_Frozen_Crickets_Bulk.pdf