A little update on Charles

[Milgro12]

Charles has been going though a lot of problems for the past month or so. Luckily my neighbor is vet but does not specialize in reptiles. I took him to her before I took him to the reptile vet but she did not have a lot of information. So I ended up taking him to the reptile vet and she confirmed that he does have MBD. I have been feeding him watered down cat food. She also prescribed a liquid calcium and a pain killer. I have him a 10 gallon glass cage. In the past few days he has been getting a lot stronger. He his moving a lot more and climbing in the leaves. If anyone has any more advise to help his healing process would be great.
Thanks

 

[carol5208]

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your chameleon. I would not feed him watered down cat food. If it is anything like dog food, it has too much protein in it and that is not good in a chameleon's diet. Who advised you to feed him that?

 

[Milgro12]

Here is the cage

 

[Milgro12]

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your chameleon. I would not feed him watered down cat food. If it is anything like dog food, it has too much protein in it and that is not good in a chameleon's diet. Who advised you to feed him that?

I had a few doubts myself but the reptile vet advised me to feed him as much watered down cat food as he will eat. She said to make it very watered down which I am doing

 

[carol5208]

There are reptile vets, but reptile vets that do not know chameleons. I would pm Ferritinmyshoes and ask her if that is what you should be doing. If she says it is ok, then I would. Why not ground up bugs, and make a bug juice? I don't understand the cat food. Cat and dog food is not even recommended as a gutload and I cannot see directly feeding it to your chameleon. Maybe I am off base here, but I sure would not want you to be causing your chameleon more harm. Also, are you sure it is not getting too hot in that tank?

 

[Milgro12]

There are reptile vets, but reptile vets that do not know chameleons. I would pm Ferritinmyshoes and ask her if that is what you should be doing. If she says it is ok, then I would. Why not ground up bugs, and make a bug juice? I don't understand the cat food. Cat and dog food is not even recommended as a gutload and I cannot see directly feeding it to your chameleon. Maybe I am off base here, but I sure would not want you to be causing your chameleon more harm. Also, are you sure it is not getting too hot in that tank?

She seemed like she was very knowledgeable about chams but maybe I was tricked. I tryed the big juice but he refused to eat it but I will try it again. I will definitely pm her to see what she has to say. He seems to really like the cat food. He has just started to lick it off for his mouth. The temperature stays at 80-82 degrees at night and 70 at night.

 

[carol5208]

She seemed like she was very knowledgeable about chams but maybe I was tricked. I tryed the big juice but he refused to eat it but I will try it again. I will definitely pm her to see what she has to say. He seems to really like the cat food. He has just started to lick it off for his mouth. The temperature stays at 80-82 degrees at night and 70 at night.

Yes, please ask Ferrit. I am by no means trying to over ride what your vet said. Unfortunately, I have seen vets on here who have given bad advice, because they really were not that familiarized with chameleons. Not saying that is the case here. I don't think I have ever seen it recommended to feed a chameleon with MBD or an ill chameleon cat food before. If it is ok, then I have learned something! Good luck and I hope Charles will continue to improve..

 

[Tapple]

Glass cage ?

Have you keep him in a glass cage since you had him? Is there any UV lighting in the cage?

Check out the Chameleon Care section on the lower left side of this web page. It might help address some of your concerns.

Hope he gets better soon.

 

[carol5208]

Have you keep him in a glass cage since you had him? Is there any UV lighting in the cage?

Check out the Chameleon Care section on the lower left side of this web page. It might help address some of your concerns.

Hope he gets better soon.

I was assuming he moved the chameleon to the glass cage because of the MBD. It is not something I would use, but I hope that is the case and that is not his permanent home.

 

[Olimpia]

I'm with Carol, cat food seems like a bad idea. Cat food is even higher in protein content than dog food (so much so that you're not supposed to let your dog eat cat food regularly), so if chameleons are sensitive to high amounts of animal protein cat food seems like the worst kind of food to give them for very long.

Is he not able to eat any insects on his own?

I know where at that time in the year that the weather is starting to get a lot worse but if you have any nice days left I would take him outside for some sunshine. The extra D3 he produces naturally outside will help his body metabolize any calcium he's getting. A good, new UVB bulb is great but natural sunshine is even better.

 

[ChameleonMom]

I don't want to sound like a 'know-it-all' in the face of you having problems with your chameleon, but your entire set up is inappropriate for a chameleon and has probably contributed to your chams current condition. Even if you stop feeding the cat food (raises a big, bad flag to me), your Cham may not improve until you improve upon your cage and husbandry techniques.

PLEASE, please read the Chameleon Care Resources found here:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

Good luck!

 

[ridgebax1]

If I remember correctly that cage was set up as a hospital type cage when the cham got sick. When Pete got sick, I moved him to a small tank with some overhead greenery, towels on the floor and a low branch for him to hang out on. I had his UVB/Heat light high up over this so he would not get hot and also had a dripper going for hydration. I only had him in there temporarily and was modifying his big cage so he would not hurt himself if he fell. He was only back in the big cage a few days when he took a turn for the worst and passed away.

 

[Milgro12]

Yes, please ask Ferrit. I am by no means trying to over ride what your vet said. Unfortunately, I have seen vets on here who have given bad advice, because they really were not that familiarized with chameleons. Not saying that is the case here. I don't think I have ever seen it recommended to feed a chameleon with MBD or an ill chameleon cat food before. If it is ok, then I have learned something! Good luck and I hope Charles will continue to improve..

At first I was very worried because he showed no improvements for a week or so. But in the past 5-6 days I've seen him start to move around a lot more and he has been eating and using his tongue more. So it's not like he is not improving or getting worse. I think I am going to try and give him big juice in a few days.
Thanks

 

[Milgro12]

I was assuming he moved the chameleon to the glass cage because of the MBD. It is not something I would use, but I hope that is the case and that is not his permanent home.

Exactly. I actually just finished his new cage. I am on the bus right now so I will post pics. And again the vet I took him to advised me to keep him in there so he could not climb( to help his recovery process).

 

[Milgro12]

I'm with Carol, cat food seems like a bad idea. Cat food is even higher in protein content than dog food (so much so that you're not supposed to let your dog eat cat food regularly), so if chameleons are sensitive to high amounts of animal protein cat food seems like the worst kind of food to give them for very long.

Is he not able to eat any insects on his own?

I know where at that time in the year that the weather is starting to get a lot worse but if you have any nice days left I would take him outside for some sunshine. The extra D3 he produces naturally outside will help his body metabolize any calcium he's getting. A good, new UVB bulb is great but natural sunshine is even better.

Like I said before if he was not making any progress or getting worse than I would be worried but he has been showing a recovery. So something is working right.
This morning it was 26 degrees and didn't get above 47 degrees. So I think the time to bring him outside has passed. But I got a brand new UVB bulb last week.
Thanks

 

[Andee]

The problem with catfood isn't short term it's long term. When feeders are fed cat food or in this case when the cham itself is fed cat food there is a high chance of gout happening. Which would cause a lot of pain to your cham when it sounds like he has enough problems with mbd.

 

[pssh]

The problem with catfood isn't short term it's long term. When feeders are fed cat food or in this case when the cham itself is fed cat food there is a high chance of gout happening. Which would cause a lot of pain to your cham when it sounds like he has enough problems with mbd.

This. I wouldn't feed him cat food anymore if he was mine. Bug juice only. If he won't lick it, then I would gently open his mouth (a soft rubber spatula works well for this) and carefully squirt it into the back of his mouth (not the front as he could end up aspirating it.)

Dr. O or ferretinmyshoes would be able to give you their opinion on cat food as vets AND keepers themselves.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

A small, short hospital cage is just fine for a chameleon with MBD as long as you can control temperatures well. You want to limit the areas he can climb because he is more prone to falling. Once he recovers then he will of course need to be moved to a more appropriate setup. But right now what he is in is fine for what's going on.

I also would not recommend cat food. As has been said, it is very high is protein, and thus can compromise the kidneys, which are already under some stress from the MBD. It is okay (but not ideal) for a few days just to get some nutrients in but after that I would switch to either blended crickets or something like omnivore critical care. You could even blend up a really good mix of high calcium vegetables and use that until he starts eating on his own.

A few decades ago the suggestion for treating MBD iguanas (because there were a ton of them during that time as the new fad pet) was to use dog and cat food. It was a widespread suggestion because they recovered with the amount of calcium in the diet. Even the gurus were using it. The problem was a few down the road from that all those iguanas started dying of kidney failure due to the protein levels in those foods. Now it is no longer used for that reason. However in the reptile world some news disseminates slowly. The people who don't practice a lot of reptile medicine might not be up to date with everything that's changed because this is a field that can change very quickly. We learn more and more every day. Already something I was taught in school that alters how you give injectable medications (the renal portal system) has been debunked, and the gurus don't even consider it anymore. This knowledge literally reversed itself in a matter of months all of a sudden but is still spread widely because most reptile vets don't even know it yet.

 

[Milgro12]

A small, short hospital cage is just fine for a chameleon with MBD as long as you can control temperatures well. You want to limit the areas he can climb because he is more prone to falling. Once he recovers then he will of course need to be moved to a more appropriate setup. But right now what he is in is fine for what's going on.

I also would not recommend cat food. As has been said, it is very high is protein, and thus can compromise the kidneys, which are already under some stress from the MBD. It is okay (but not ideal) for a few days just to get some nutrients in but after that I would switch to either blended crickets or something like omnivore critical care. You could even blend up a really good mix of high calcium vegetables and use that until he starts eating on his own.

A few decades ago the suggestion for treating MBD iguanas (because there were a ton of them during that time as the new fad pet) was to use dog and cat food. It was a widespread suggestion because they recovered with the amount of calcium in the diet. Even the gurus were using it. The problem was a few down the road from that all those iguanas started dying of kidney failure due to the protein levels in those foods. Now it is no longer used for that reason. However in the reptile world some news disseminates slowly. The people who don't practice a lot of reptile medicine might not be up to date with everything that's changed because this is a field that can change very quickly. We learn more and more every day. Already something I was taught in school that alters how you give injectable medications (the renal portal system) has been debunked, and the gurus don't even consider it anymore. This knowledge literally reversed itself in a matter of months all of a sudden but is still spread widely because most reptile vets don't even know it yet.

Thank you very much for clearing things up involving the setup and cat food