A really neat new LED

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
I was alerted to a really neat newish LED the other day.

A TRULY Full spectrum LED, yes please :).

It would seem someone has finally provided an actual Full Spectrum LED. We have lots of lights, and even LEDs, that claim full spectrum, and as much as we wish that were true they have never really hit the mark.

Here is a good graph to illustrate, the why.

main-qimg-47d35ae236534f28bfab70825b9a151c


We can see here the glaring issue. Halogen, and Incans, very much provide red spectra, but lack blues. This is by the nature of the light source, and the way it works. This is why we only see them in warm colors (3k).

LEDs were a start, they were boosting our Blues, due to the way LEDs work, our reds were still pretty lacking however. So lets look at that, and why it happens.



This is how our Cool White LEDs work. They use a Blue Light Diode, and then using different colored Phosphors they alter the color.

Blue LED w Phosphors.png


As you can see we are creating the Yellow and the Red, via Phospors. Its hard to turn red into blue, and trying to recreate green from yellow and blue, and still creating yellow also poses difficulty.

The end result of such a task is this.

article-2014march-why-and-how-chip-fig1.jpg


The orange (Decor) is the Bridgelux LEDs I use. While we see the reds boosted, and the blues boosted, giving us a good CRI. We are still very lacking in the Green and Yellow spectras, with a Dive. Another area of issue is our Violets. This has been largely okay, as our plants are said not to use as much of that spectra, so it can be cut out. Doing so allowed us to push Lumens Per Watt, and have an acceptable plant growth. However its still far and away vastly different from sunlight.


Toshiba has sought to change this, with their Tri R LED. They felt there could be a market, and a real use for a Sunlike Spectrum (Pun intended, in a minute). The developed the Tri R LED, that works like this instead.

Tri R.png


As you can see, design has changed. We have dropped the Blue Diode, for a 400nm version instead. Purple being a mixture of both blue and red, should provide both colors phosphor much better right? The idea makes sense, but DOES IT WORK. Yes, yes it does :).


Now here is our whole picture, with the tech example and the spectrum's that are provided.

5459b88d-a4d9-4997-a6ac-3014e7e70095 (1).png


The red dotted lines are representative of actual Sunlight.


If we look back to the first graph, we have just got closer to sunlight then ever before. Its still not perfect, for our needs. We still need the IRA the LEDs lack, our herps can still see the UVA (down to 350nm) that is lacking, and we still need UVB.

However, if we were to mix this, with halogens and UVB bulbs we could somewhat bridge that gap, and be much much closer to natural sunlight.


I aim to replace all my COBs of current with these, and test and see the results. There not cheap, but I think they may show promise in our reptiles reaction to the light.

The Tri Rs depicted, can be found under the Name "Sunlike" COBs here, "Quantum Boards" here and Strips here (UK based, may ship to US)

My gripe with the Sunlikes as of today, is the low wattage. The highest we have available is 1455ma (weird max), I would like brighter cobs, which do exist (newest line) but are not yet on Digikey. If you would like to read more about the "Sunlikes" you can here. http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/technology/Sunlike/

So in efforts to find me a brighter higher wattage COB. I found these, they claim bridgelux leds, so not sure how they are pulling this off. However, it does seem to work. They cost a little more though, but here are LCFocus FS5s.





I think as the LEDs makers, are telling us with this advent. The Time is come, that we push to better recreating the sun for our Herps.
 
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Uhhhh, so how much to make a thing that replaces a 75 watt halogen? Your diy stuff is at or above my pay grade when it comes to matching power supplies, drivers, led cooling, and having it all work :p
 
Uhhhh, so how much to make a thing that replaces a 75 watt halogen? Your diy stuff is at or above my pay grade when it comes to matching power supplies, drivers, led cooling, and having it all work :p

Well depends what you mean by replaces the halogen.

Replaces the light, or replaces the heat? You cant replace the heat, so in this instance you would still want the halogen for the heat.

a 75w halogen only gives about 1100 lumens so most of those cobs, would replace the light and then some.



These boards, https://www.knema.com/item/LED-Full...e-Backlight-Module-6x6-5.83-x-5.83-inches-127

Are the new "Cool Thing" the price for the board is awfully high, I would rather find another seller, or DIY boards. They are not made by the seller, but by US solid state.

Anyway, they require no cooling, and the board is 24v 15w, so honestly a driver wouldn't even be needed, unless you wanted to run alot of them. Something like this, https://www.amazon.com/SHNITPWR-100...ywords=24v+power+supply&qid=1581448875&sr=8-3 would easily run up to like 4-5.

If you wanted a power supply for each one, you could run a wall wart likely, 24v .625 amps.

I want to try to find a cheaper source of the boards though, thats a high price for such a small board.



These are a better value, in a DIY friendly format, https://www.us.lumistrips.com/lumis...i-r-led-modules-cri97-zhaga-2700-lm-m-us.html

Strips, their voltage is higher though. They need a constant current driver, and a Small one! I really wish at that requirement they would have provided a ldd driver on board or at least a slot for one :(.

I would really only feel safe running these with LDDs. So each strip will need one of these ran in line, https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-ldd-350h-dimmable-driver/

From there, any 43+ volt power supply would work, as long as it has an amperage higher than 350ma x as many boards as you want to run.

If you wanted to run a bunch of the strips, you can get LDD boards like this, https://www.rapidled.com/ldd-h-4-driver-board/ which will socket in 4 LDDs at a time, and make it a solder less connection all around.



Even with the added cost of the LDD driver, for these strips. They are about half the price as the 6x6 board. They are 20mm x 520mm (22 inches I think they said) so good size for cham cages. No heat sink required for either one. If you wanted to, you could maybe fit them in the LED tracks, on Amazon that would give diffusion. I believe there was one that held 20mm strips. Not needed though, they are rigid as is. These might be the diodes, or even the same strips in Arcadia's new lights, IDK and the fact they dont provide a spectrum doesn't tell us, and even if they are, its cheaper this way.
 
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Haha. I found the Bridgelux.

Digi key has them in stock.

Some data on them the "Bridgelux Thrive".

They are a little different. Where the Sunlikes used Violet Diode, the Thrive uses double stacked Blues. Where most LEDs use a Blue diode either 430nm or 480nm, the Thrive has both, side by side and have achieved the "Sunlike" effect like this.

It's slightly different spectrally, but it's much more efficient (85 L/W for the Sunlike, and 126 for the Thrive). It lacks a little in comparison in the violet range (400-430) however with our UVB lights still being needed this should not matter.

I will be grabbing a 4 to replace my Decors. I will let known my thoughts here in the thread when they arrive.

Here is some of the models spectrums. The cobs are cheap, they are 12 each that is half the price of my Vero 29 Decors. Also half the price of the Sunlikes, that produce half the light.

There is also (and this is how I got turned on) concerns about the Violet Diode, being bad for human eyes. As well as study's showing the Violet diodes burn out much faster than Blue (2000 hours Vs 8000 hours).

I have not tested the violet diodes they are very new, so could be growing pains of new tech, the articles were closer to release, things change so fast, that I am not sure of that accuracy anymore, but it is worth a mention.

content_dam_leds_onlinearticles_2019_03_ledsbridgeluxnews031419.png


An article about the new Thrives if you want to read it.

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/leds-s...thrive-series-leds-with-uniform-and-broad-spd
 
Sold on Digi-key? I think I am going to buy some for a new COB build right now too ...

Are you purchasing the 5000K?
 
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Sold on Digi-key? I think I am going to buy some for a new COB build right now too ...

Are you purchasing the 5000K?

I havent decided yet, but I think I'm going to go with 6500k, they have more spectrums then that list, that was just from the entry versions. They have 5700k as well, and 6500k. Yep on digikey.

The largest is a Vero 18 atm no 29s. But if I recall correctly you like 18s anyway.

Here is the 6500 on Digikey. https://www.digikey.com/product-det...E-65S4001-C-74-ND/11203636/?itemSeq=320198101

If you type thrive in the search the list will come up :).
 
I havent decided yet, but I think I'm going to go with 6500k, they have more spectrums then that list, that was just from the entry versions. They have 5700k as well, and 6500k. Yep on digikey.

Any reason you are choosing to go with 6500K vs. 5700K? I thought 5700K was a good compromise between realistic daylight color and what is good for plants. Already had 6 in my shopping cart yesterday :ROFLMAO:
Now I'm looking for good heatsinks, drivers, etc. that would match well with these.
Your post on this had perfect timing for me. I am planning to purchase another 90x45x90 glass terrarium for a new build next month and was on the brink of purchasing some more Vero 18s for it.

The largest is a Vero 18 atm no 29s. But if I recall correctly you like 18s anyway.

Here is the 6500 on Digikey. https://www.digikey.com/product-det...E-65S4001-C-74-ND/11203636/?itemSeq=320198101

If you type thrive in the search the list will come up :).

Yea Vero 18s even at 1A current produce plenty of lumens for my 90 cm tall enclosures. I can probably go higher amps without issue now as I just installed some Synjet cooling fans on each COB. Previously the heatsinks were fairly warm to the touch but now they are barely warm at all with the individual fans. Really like the oscillating diaphragm pump fan design.

I also don't really want to push my power supply too hard or have to buy another. Have a 360W Meanwell PS and I'm using about half the wattage now.
 
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Any reason you are choosing to go with 6500K vs. 5700K? I thought 5700K was a good compromise between realistic daylight color and what is good for plants. Already had 6 in my shopping cart yesterday :ROFLMAO:

I been on the fence, back and forth, due to spectrum blending. But then I face palmed, and realized I'm dopey as the Basking light blends with the UVB.

5700 is probably the best, I agree. Unless you want to blend higher.


Now I'm looking for good heatsinks, drivers, etc. that would match well with these.
Your post on this had perfect timing for me. I am planning to purchase another 90x45x90 glass terrarium for a new build next month and was on the brink of purchasing some more Vero 18s for it.

They still are for all intents and purposes Vero 18s. They are just "Thrive" instead of "Decor" or "Speciality". They have the same form factor, and specs mostly, slight difference in L/W obviously, however from a Heatsink and Driver POV, same as your current 18s :).


How many 18s are you currently running on the 360?
If your running them at 1amp, then 4 are only about 140ws, so you could do another 4 at 1 amp and be about 80% PSU load which is the sweet spot :).
 
I been on the fence, back and forth, due to spectrum blending. But then I face palmed, and realized I'm dopey as the Basking light blends with the UVB.

5700 is probably the best, I agree. Unless you want to blend higher.

They still are for all intents and purposes Vero 18s. They are just "Thrive" instead of "Decor" or "Speciality". They have the same form factor, and specs mostly, slight difference in L/W obviously, however from a Heatsink and Driver POV, same as your current 18s :).

How many 18s are you currently running on the 360?
If your running them at 1amp, then 4 are only about 140ws, so you could do another 4 at 1 amp and be about 80% PSU load which is the sweet spot :).

I assumed specs were similar but form factor looks different - square SMDs vs round COB. I was looking for individual heatsinks to match the mounting hole positions because of the different form factor. I can't seem to remember the name of the type of heat sink I like to use ... the round or square individual heatsinks for SMDs or COBs. Chandelier came to mind but I don't think that's it. Dumbbell heatsinks?

I am running 5 Vero 18s and 2 Vero 13s. I know 80% is OK but for my own peace of mind I prefer to keep it below 75%, if possible.
 
I assumed specs were similar but form factor looks different - square SMDs vs round COB. I was looking for individual heatsinks to match the mounting hole positions because of the different form factor. I can't seem to remember the name of the type of heat sink I like to use ... the round or square individual heatsinks for SMDs or COBs. Chandelier came to mind but I don't think that's it. Dumbbell heatsinks?

I am running 5 Vero 18s and 2 Vero 13s. I know 80% is OK but for my own peace of mind I prefer to keep it below 75%, if possible.

They are square but they are still COBs. They use the same screw holes as your 18s, they just cut off the extra plastic as it were.

It's to be more cree style, then old Bridgelux style.
 
Are you an electrician by trade? Thank you very much for posting these specs. High informative!

No, but have a background in Computer Engineering, again not my field, my field was Cyber Security and Forensics. I did take quite a few Engineering classes, and use a lot of that hands on in my other hobby (Now retired from) Semi Competitive Overclocking. Which is semi helpful, in the LED field, but learning about the LEDs has been more of a passion project :).
 
They are square but they are still COBs. They use the same screw holes as your 18s, they just cut off the extra plastic as it were.

It's to be more cree style, then old Bridgelux style.

Thanks for the info - I didn't have the chance to read through the datasheets/specs so assumed there would be some differences. If the size/specs/mounting hole positions are the same as Vero, wish they would have just used Vero form factor that works with the same Pico EZ-mate connectors, base and reflectors.
 
Thanks for the info - I didn't have the chance to read through the datasheets/specs so assumed there would be some differences. If the size/specs/mounting hole positions are the same as Vero, wish they would have just used Vero form factor that works with the same Pico EZ-mate connectors, base and reflectors.

Ya, agreed I'm not sure why they would do this. Doesn't make sense. Maybe because the Cree style form factor is more common,

Maybe these would work with Cree Holders, IDK.

Edit: it appears these are "V series" Cob form factor.

Here is some holders. https://www.led-professional.com/pr...ops-cob-holders-for-bridgelux-v-series-arrays

Other options, kingbrites Glass Optics (I like these) or the Silicon Ledils that screw direct to the heatsink.
 
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https://store.waveformlighting.com/...-99-cri-16-ft-5-m-reel?variant=12333365657702

Thoughts on these @cyberlocc? I know I'm all over the place with lighting lol. These seem to be what your talking about in this thread. I would just need to make a fixture.

I'm thinking of wiring in a DIMMABLE T5 HO MIRO-4 RETROFIT KIT and adding a controller to dim the uvb. And in the same fixture running the strip leds, a total of 32 ft. So for me I'm looking at a 48" uvb 12% arcadia bulb and a diy fixture thats maybe 5ft long and 2ft wide allowing me 6" on either side of the fixture to add a heat bulb. If there is a way i can use the same dimmable driver ( bluefish led controller?) for that uvb and the leds that would be awesome just haven't found a solution yet. Even better if I could have my heat bulb or bulbs on it as well for absolute control over sunrise, sunset, and cloud cover when misting.
 
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Ok so after thinking on it and alot more reading I'm thinking of getting 1 at 5000k and another at 6500k. So when I put them on my board I will alternate them. There will be (8) 4ft strips on either side of the t5's. I am planning to get the bluefish led controller for the t5 ho dimmable ballast which will have 1 12% uvb and 1 6500k bulb (the ballast requires both bulbs to work) and a bluefish power dimmer for the led strips.
I'm thinking of getting a 1/4" piece of plywood 2ft x 5ft and attaching the leds and the t5s to it as well as whatever I use for heat if it makes sense otherwise I will shorten the length to just over 4ft. My enclosure is 6ft long 2ft deep.
 
Haha. I found the Bridgelux.

Digi key has them in stock.

Some data on them the "Bridgelux Thrive".

They are a little different. Where the Sunlikes used Violet Diode, the Thrive uses double stacked Blues. Where most LEDs use a Blue diode either 430nm or 480nm, the Thrive has both, side by side and have achieved the "Sunlike" effect like this.

It's slightly different spectrally, but it's much more efficient (85 L/W for the Sunlike, and 126 for the Thrive). It lacks a little in comparison in the violet range (400-430) however with our UVB lights still being needed this should not matter.

I will be grabbing a 4 to replace my Decors. I will let known my thoughts here in the thread when they arrive.

Here is some of the models spectrums. The cobs are cheap, they are 12 each that is half the price of my Vero 29 Decors. Also half the price of the Sunlikes, that produce half the light.

There is also (and this is how I got turned on) concerns about the Violet Diode, being bad for human eyes. As well as study's showing the Violet diodes burn out much faster than Blue (2000 hours Vs 8000 hours).

I have not tested the violet diodes they are very new, so could be growing pains of new tech, the articles were closer to release, things change so fast, that I am not sure of that accuracy anymore, but it is worth a mention.

View attachment 260347

An article about the new Thrives if you want to read it.

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/leds-s...thrive-series-leds-with-uniform-and-broad-spd
Where did you find concerns about the Violet Diode being bad for human eyes? It's almost 2024, I'm deciding whether to buy Bridgelux Thrive or SunLike ceiling light
 
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