Accurate caresheets for "rare"r species?

[SaintJimmy]

I look around here and I usually see little to no information on how to keep the more "rare" species (usually wc) like meller's, parson's, quad's, fischers, etc.

Are there any accurate caresheets for these species? I understand not everyone will go and buy a mellers, parsons, quad, or fischers, but why aren't there more information sources on these?

I eventually would be interested in getting something like a meller's, given that it would be cb, but I don't know what kind of humidity spikes they'd need, (I know how big the cage would need to be, thanks to Olimpia usually pretty large like 4x3x6-5 feet) but yeah) etc.

When I search on the internet, I usually find false information or misinformed people. Usually it's on websites that don't focus on chameleons, but think they know everything, and dole out bad info.

Are there any good sources, or people who have experience that wouldn't mind messaging me or publicly stating how you take care of your precious animals?

 

[bobcochran]

I got a great care sheet from Laurie for Quads. Maybe Olimpia would be willing
to write one for the Mellers

 

[Olimpia]

Thanks for the shout-out I wish there were more care-sheets as well. I know we're working on a more comprehensive library of species here on the forum, but such things take time (not too long though, we hope!)

Individual members like Laurie definitely have put in the time to write up a super comprehensive care-sheet that is like 10 pages long, and she's happy to send it out to quad owners. I am building up a caresheet on my blog as I continue to gain experience with Meller's, but I'm only a year into it so I still recommend Melleridiscovery.com for everyone.

So if you ask around I think most people are willing to share what they know for the sake of helping others with the species, but this is not true across the board equally, unfortunately.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I do love your blog, and I have read melleri discovery too! I just wish there was an easy way to compile all of it into a list.

Maybe I should make a large list "caresheet"esque so I can begin planning and compiling what I need

Oh and I know from experience that Laurie does go out of her way! She really cares about chams.

thanks guys

 

[Saldarya]

I believe that there may also be some concerns with the information about these species not being as generalized as the more commonly kept species where the care in general has been 'figured out'.

For example, on these johnstonii that we have just received, general knowledge would say that they need a fairly low temp basking spot, say 80*. for two of the three, this seems more than adequate, the third however clearly likes a bit warmer spot.

My point is, in many cases the care is just not buttoned up enough to say in black and white the details.

Now, certainly there is value in getting first hand knowledge from specific keepers, and this is the way to go in these cases.

HTH,

 

[CarlC]

Is there anything in particular you are looking for? If I've worked with it I'd be glad to share what has worked for me.

Carl

 

[SaintJimmy]

I am looking forward to a career in biology, not that it matters, but I want to help eventually with the explicit care of hard to come by species.

Specifically, eventually I would be interested in having a pair of breeding Meller's to help out with the CB population, since I have NEVER seen CB Meller's anywhere (with some few exceptions).

Meller's or Parsons would be my top priority to get absolutely perfect.

 

[CarlC]

Can't help with those two. The biggest species I've kept is pardalis.

Carl

 

[SaintJimmy]

Hmmm, what are some species you've kept? Small species would be interesting too. I just would love to dedicate a room for a specific species though.

 

[fluxlizard]

for melleri if you are just looking for a starting point:

Pretend they are gigantic jacksons, but don't allow temps to go so low on the cool end (50 lowest).

 

[SaintJimmy]

for melleri if you are just looking for a starting point:

Pretend they are gigantic jacksons, but don't allow temps to go so low on the cool end (50 lowest).

thank you. that will help quite a bit..

supplementing for melleri? does anyone know?

 

[Olimpia]

I've kept a little bit all over the spectrum, from dwarf to giant and I found my niche in giant chameleons. Specifically the Meller's, there's something about them that really appeals to me personally. So that's what I'm hunkering down to focus on, for example, with no interest in ever keeping anything smaller than a panther again. Your own path may be different, you may get your hands on a few dwarf species and be hooked on the little guys, you never know. But I definitely think it's vital to pick the 1-2 species that really fire up your passion and focus to work on those, because breeding is a multi-year investment, so you definitely have to love what you do!

That's my only advice when figuring out your serious breeding path (and Biology is awesome!)

 

[SaintJimmy]

I've kept a little bit all over the spectrum, from dwarf to giant and I found my niche in giant chameleons. Specifically the Meller's, there's something about them that really appeals to me personally. So that's what I'm hunkering down to focus on, for example, with no interest in ever keeping anything smaller than a panther again. Your own path may be different, you may get your hands on a few dwarf species and be hooked on the little guys, you never know. But I definitely think it's vital to pick the 1-2 species that really fire up your passion and focus to work on those, because breeding is a multi-year investment, so you definitely have to love what you do!

That's my only advice when figuring out your serious breeding path (and Biology is awesome!)

I really want to stick with my two current favorites: Jackson's and Meller's. Parsons are a great opportunity, but very expensive, and I don't want to risk anything so big.

Yeah, panthers are great, veileds are great too, pygmys aren't really my thing (too small, not really enjoyable to me) but still are interesting and very cool, and almost everything else could be WC with a few exceptions.

Jackson's are my main preference due to the horns and easy husbandry/lax behavior and the fact that they like humidity. I love the misting system business. Even taking out the buckets is "fun" to me really, I love setting up the system and watching it rain.

Meller's are awesome to me because of their strange wobbly bumpy textured backs, and their spots, and their horns. And just because they're big. But also because I would love to be able to give little Meller babies to new owners! I feel like Meller's would be stronger, bigger, (and given that they are a nasty cham, MEANER) etc.

I would really like to get into biology specifically into something reptile related. I know there is herpetology but I don't really know if the jobs are abundant there or if I will be considered "useful" if I go into biology specializing in something so specific. Many people go into microbiology and stuff like that, and end up working for companies like johnson & johnson (I know a couple people who actually did this) testing different germs and how they react to soaps, lol.

That would not be my interest. It sounds far-fetched, but I think I really know what I want to do now, and I really wish my future has something to do with lizards (preferably chams) in it, lol.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I really want to stick with my two current favorites: Jackson's and Meller's. Parsons are a great opportunity, but very expensive, and I don't want to risk anything so big.

Yeah, panthers are great, veileds are great too, pygmys aren't really my thing (too small, not really enjoyable to me) but still are interesting and very cool, and almost everything else could be WC with a few exceptions.

Jackson's are my main preference due to the horns and easy husbandry/lax behavior and the fact that they like humidity. I love the misting system business. Even taking out the buckets is "fun" to me really, I love setting up the system and watching it rain.

Meller's are awesome to me because of their strange wobbly bumpy textured backs, and their spots, and their horns. And just because they're big. But also because I would love to be able to give little Meller babies to new owners! I feel like Meller's would be stronger, bigger, (and given that they are a nasty cham, MEANER) etc.

I would really like to get into biology specifically into something reptile related. I know there is herpetology but I don't really know if the jobs are abundant there or if I will be considered "useful" if I go into biology specializing in something so specific. Many people go into microbiology and stuff like that, and end up working for companies like johnson & johnson (I know a couple people who actually did this) testing different germs and how they react to soaps, lol.

That would not be my interest. It sounds far-fetched, but I think I really know what I want to do now, and I really wish my future has something to do with lizards (preferably chams) in it, lol.

I wish you luck! Biology is a wonderful field. However their are many people attempting to make careers in that field right now meaning finding a job is going to be difficult.

For the Mellers Chameleons I would go with as large as enclosure as possible. With a couple of basking spots as every single one of mine loved to bask. They drink quite a bit as well and as stated previously they can be kept somewhat similar conditions to Jacksons Chameleons (high humidity) except I would say at higher overall temperatures.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I wish you luck! Biology is a wonderful field. However their are many people attempting to make careers in that field right now meaning finding a job is going to be difficult.

For the Mellers Chameleons I would go with as large as enclosure as possible. With a couple of basking spots as every single one of mine loved to bask. They drink quite a bit as well and as stated previously they can be kept somewhat similar conditions to Jacksons Chameleons (high humidity) except I would say at higher overall temperatures.

I know that careers are no piece of cake, I will have to work to get where I want. What about more specialized, like herps?

I would love to volunteer somewhere or work somewhere to add more things to my resume that way I will have more experience and better odds vs other people too, which is obvious.

I think that maybe after college, once I am stable in a job, I will mainly focus on mellers seriously, but only have jacksons as pets.

Is it possible to have a PVC big enclosure, as long as I have support rods every couple of feet? I'm talking like... 5 feet wide, 5 feet tall, 3 feet deep, and I would want it inside. I would also want plexiglass or plastic to be able to lock into the sides, but be able to remove it for transport in case I had to move. I would also need it to have wheels and a drain bucket, so maybe I'd go with the "convert a rack into a cage idea". I would have a mist king attached too. I don't know how I'd make everything portable though, given all the plants and such. Agh.

Actually, scratch that. Moving trucks would do the moving and then I'd keep the chams in the car.

 

[Saldarya]

On the topic of biology, I have a degree in Pathogenic Microbiology.

I can tell you this. The vast majority of people who go into undergrad with a desire to focus on biology in general tend to shift to a more focused effort as they get into the junior years as the classes become more specific.

I have always loved herps, and a roommate and I both shared the passion. He continued on in that field somewhat focusing on zoology as I moved into the micro world as it interested me more than I would have thought entering into college with a general desire to study biology.

Point is, as you get deeper into more specialized classes, your desires may, and likely will, change.

Funny thing, the work I do now has absolutely nothing to do with the micro biology world!! That being said, I still enjoy the topic.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Oh that's cool. I know my preferences will change as I mature, but I REALLY want to do something in zoology.

I love to write papers, as silly as that sounds. I want to be able to make analyses, record them, and possibly even be able to present them to the public. I also love the idea of educating children specifically on reptiles, although I know that's sort of a fantasy job, haha.

 

[fluxlizard]

For the Mellers Chameleons I would go with as large as enclosure as possible. With a couple of basking spots as every single one of mine loved to bask.

This is true indoors. Outdoors I found mine stress at fairly low temps if they cannot find cooler shelter (I used patio misters)- even at 83-84 degrees they start to show heat stress outside. Sunlight I have found is quite different in it's effect than incandescent bulbs. Indoors I generally used 75 watt incandescents in reflectors for basking- even for babies.

Is it possible to have a PVC big enclosure, as long as I have support rods every couple of feet? I'm talking like... 5 feet wide, 5 feet tall, 3 feet deep, and I would want it inside.

Sure, you could even go without the support rods depending on the PVC width. I have built frames for 175 gallon reptariums for other lizards out of 1" pvc and a couple even wider (don't remember- maybe even 2" or more). You can order corners this size at pvc specialty suppliers online.

Jackson's are my main preference due to the horns and easy husbandry/lax behavior and the fact that they like humidity. I love the misting system business. Even taking out the buckets is "fun" to me really, I love setting up the system and watching it rain.

Then you will love melleri- they need lots of drinking water and prefer to drink mist right out of the air. Sometimes they can go loooooong periods drinking very very slowly.

supplementing for melleri? does anyone know?

Nobody really knows for any chameleon, but they will probably do fine supplemented like jacksons. Historically I went a little (cough) stronger with supplementation than most folks here on the forums. I did not find melleri to be particularly delicate when it comes to supplementation like what I have heard about for some species like johnstoni for example.

 

[SaintJimmy]

This is true indoors. Outdoors I found mine stress at fairly low temps if they cannot find cooler shelter (I used patio misters)- even at 83-84 degrees they start to show heat stress outside. Sunlight I have found is quite different in it's effect than incandescent bulbs. Indoors I generally used 75 watt incandescents in reflectors for basking- even for babies.



Sure, you could even go without the support rods depending on the PVC width. I have built frames for 175 gallon reptariums for other lizards out of 1" pvc and a couple even wider (don't remember- maybe even 2" or more). You can order corners this size at pvc specialty suppliers online.



Then you will love melleri- they need lots of drinking water and prefer to drink mist right out of the air. Sometimes they can go loooooong periods drinking very very slowly.



Nobody really knows for any chameleon, but they will probably do fine supplemented like jacksons. Historically I went a little (cough) stronger with supplementation than most folks here on the forums. I did not find melleri to be particularly delicate when it comes to supplementation like what I have heard about for some species like johnstoni for example.

Thank you all very much for the information.

See, once I move out and go to college, I want a very easy enclosure to be able to disassemble.

PVC would be perfect for this. I would just buy ... hm.

Okay so I am going to make a google sketchup file hold on.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This is true indoors. Outdoors I found mine stress at fairly low temps if they cannot find cooler shelter (I used patio misters)- even at 83-84 degrees they start to show heat stress outside. Sunlight I have found is quite different in it's effect than incandescent bulbs. Indoors I generally used 75 watt incandescents in reflectors for basking- even for babies.

Jacksons Chameleons should be kept ideally around 70F to 80F. My past Mellers my recollections was around 75F to 85F. However with both situations the enclosure is designed and big enough that if a chameleon has got to escape the heat they can dive into a plant to cool off a bit.

Jeremy A. Rich